Is I9 10850K still worth the buying? It is 450 USD cheaper here than 5900X

[Herkul]

Oh! Last question.

Quote

This processor also supports up to 128GB of dual-channel DDR4-2933 RAM and utilizes 10th-generation technology.

Does it mean that it wont support 3200MHz DDR4 sticks?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mister Woof]

6 minutes ago, Herkul said:

Oh! Last question.

 

Does it mean that it wont support 3200MHz DDR4 sticks?

 

 

 

 

 

 

On non-memory unlocked boards (H410, H470, B460, H510) it will only support memory speed up to the spec of the CPU - which is 2666 for 10th gen i5 and lower, and 2933 for 10th gen i7 and higher.

 

On memory overclockable boards (B460, Z490, H570, Z590), you can overclock as high as the memory and memory controller will allow.

[freeagent]

450 cheaper wow! You could take the money you save and buy a sweet board and kick axe ram. If I was in the market, or wanted one I would for sure just get it. Indulge. Ifs a fucking beast lol. But to be fair.. the power of AMD is compelling. Such an awkward time to be in the market right now. But if I were you I would make your choice soon before prices go right up on the little things you need. I see my 3200C14 Royals are in stock for what I paid.. I almost want to get another pair.. ffs.

[Mister Woof]

From everything I have read, most of the 5000 series chips top out at around DDR 3600 because the FLCK after 1800mhz is just not reliable or attainable for most samples.

 

So I guess you could save money that way, by offsetting the 5000 series chips' high price with less expensive RAM and motherboard.

[IkeaGnome]

2 hours ago, Herkul said:

Thank you. What about Userbenchmark, is it unreliable?

When you compare two processors it surely states that 10850K is a winner.

Userbenchmark is heavily anti AMD. A week ago, the 9300kf was 2% better than the 5950x. Even now the 5950x is 13% better than the 9300kf. Then there's this one. i3-10100 is apparently 2% better all around than the 3990x threadripper.

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Herkul said:

11 generation is a joke! 5800x costs just 60 USD more here than 10850K.

11th gen is a joke. I more or less got started on the 5800X because according to Puget Systems, it is viable for your use case, and tends to actually be in stock compared to the 5900x.

The other thing to think about with the 5800x being 60 USD more is motherboard cost. Intel motherboards for what ever reason seem to be more expensive. 

 

That being said, I don't think either the 5800x or the 10850k will let you down.

1 hour ago, Mister Woof said:

I wouldn't feel bad about getting it.

 

I actually had a 5800x on delivery from AMD Store, but I returned it ultimately. 

 

People don't want to talk about it, and I'm sure I'll get some shit here for saying it, but in my experience AMD CPU, or more specifically, AMD motherboards, are just more work and have more quirks than Intel builds. The fact AGESA is such a big deal with memory issues up the wazoo should give you some insight to that.

 

However, credit is given where credit is due, and AMD has made a great CPU. There's no question they've advanced quite a bit, and in at least partway have surpassed Intel. It seems memory is still their biggest hurdle, though. The third generation memory controller is holding them back. Once they get that figured out it will be even harder to recommend Intel for anything.

I haven't been out spoken about it. This is my first trip with AMD. That's been my biggest complaint so far, but no one really talks about it so it never comes up. I think we're fully at a spot where the tables have turned. AMD used to be the cheaper "getting into my first gaming pc or workstation" budget CPU. You plug it in, it works. Intel was "Yeah, but look at what we can do. Try to keep up." I think the jump that AMD has had with Zen 3 is truly impressive. That said, I feel like it was "Here's what we can make CPUs do. Good luck Intel.  Wait, we have to make it compatible with all this stuff?" If that makes any sense. It feels like the QC just isn't quite there yet. 

11th gen really solidified that. Yes, it doesn't make sense over 10th gen or Zen 3. However, what's the likelihood that you'll throw the 11700k or any other 11th gen into a motherboard and it just.....works..

2 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

From everything I have read, most of the 5000 series chips top out at around DDR 3600 because the FLCK after 1800mhz is just not reliable or attainable for most samples.

 

So I guess you could save money that way, by offsetting the 5000 series chips' high price with less expensive RAM and motherboard.

What I've read is very similar to that. Infinity Fabric(FLCK) runs at 1800 mhz, so DDR 3600 is a straight 1:1 ratio of the IF. However, above 1800mhz or DDR 3600 it goes into a 2:1 mode. So it's actually more "difficult" for the memory controller. 

[Mister Woof]

32 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Userbenchmark is heavily anti AMD. A week ago, the 9300kf was 2% better than the 5950x. Even now the 5950x is 13% better than the 9300kf. Then there's this one. i3-10100 is apparently 2% better all around than the 3990x threadripper.

  Reveal hidden contents

11th gen is a joke. I more or less got started on the 5800X because according to Puget Systems, it is viable for your use case, and tends to actually be in stock compared to the 5900x.

The other thing to think about with the 5800x being 60 USD more is motherboard cost. Intel motherboards for what ever reason seem to be more expensive. 

 

That being said, I don't think either the 5800x or the 10850k will let you down.

I haven't been out spoken about it. This is my first trip with AMD. That's been my biggest complaint so far, but no one really talks about it so it never comes up. I think we're fully at a spot where the tables have turned. AMD used to be the cheaper "getting into my first gaming pc or workstation" budget CPU. You plug it in, it works. Intel was "Yeah, but look at what we can do. Try to keep up." I think the jump that AMD has had with Zen 3 is truly impressive. That said, I feel like it was "Here's what we can make CPUs do. Good luck Intel.  Wait, we have to make it compatible with all this stuff?" If that makes any sense. It feels like the QC just isn't quite there yet. 

11th gen really solidified that. Yes, it doesn't make sense over 10th gen or Zen 3. However, what's the likelihood that you'll throw the 11700k or any other 11th gen into a motherboard and it just.....works..

What I've read is very similar to that. Infinity Fabric(FLCK) runs at 1800 mhz, so DDR 3600 is a straight 1:1 ratio of the IF. However, above 1800mhz or DDR 3600 it goes into a 2:1 mode. So it's actually more "difficult" for the memory controller. 

I have some friends on other forums who have spent DAYS trying to get FLCK to 1900mhz or even 2000mhz so they don't have to decouple the frequency on their DDR4000 memory, which they finally achieve, only to find the newest BIOS update that was supposed to make memory compatibility BETTER resulted in them being unable to hold their previously stable 1900/2000mhz FLCKs. Then, when they try to go back to the previous version, it's impossible or they aren't able to reproduce their old settings. So their expensive 4000mhz kits end up having to run at 3800/3600 anyway and dropping down to 1900/1800mhz FLCK.

 

Me? Took about 5 minutes to get DDR4 4000 to work....with 4 DIMMS.

[Herkul]

What do you think about this: Cost: 1864 USD

 

CPU: i9 i9-10850K

 

CPU COOLER: CPU COOLER MULTI SOCKET/KRAKEN X73 RGB RL-KRX73R1 NZXT

 

RAM: G.Skill 32 Kit (16GBx2) GB, DDR4, 3200 MHz, PC/serveris, Registered No, ECC No

 

PSU: CORSAIR Builder TX850 850W Semi-Modular 80 Pus Gold Power Supply

 

SSD: SAMSUNG|970 Evo 1TB

 

MOTHERBOARD: Asus PRIME Z590-A

 

COOLERS: Lian Li ST120 RGB PWM Lüfter, 3er Pack inkl. Controller - 120mm, baltas

 

CASE: Fractal Design Meshify C white

 

GPU: Keeping an old AMD Radeon R9 270X for now

[Mister Woof]

Honestly if you are just getting DDR 3200 memory, you should get the 5800x and a less expensive B550 motherboard. It will cost about the same or less and perform about the same or better.

 

And then you could upgrade to a PCIE4 SSD - which might be useful in some of your work-related apps.

[Herkul]

1 minute ago, Mister Woof said:

Honestly if you are just getting DDR 3200 memory, you should get the 5800x and a less expensive B550 motherboard. It will cost about the same or less and perform about the same or better.

 

And then you could upgrade to a PCIE4 SSD - which might be useful in some of your work-related apps.

For some reason they are selling maximum RAM size 3200 in Lithuania.

[da na]

Still a very good CPU. I still use a LGA 2011 Xeon.

[Herkul]

3 minutes ago, wat3rmelon_man2 said:

Still a very good CPU. I still use a LGA 2011 Xeon.

Are you referring to I9?

[da na]

1 minute ago, Herkul said:

Are you referring to I9?

The i9 10850 is still good. I was offering for comparison, that I still use a much older CPU.

[Herkul]

Just now, wat3rmelon_man2 said:

The i9 10850 is still good. I was offering for comparison, that I still use a much older CPU.

Gotcha.

[IkeaGnome]

4 minutes ago, Herkul said:

For some reason they are selling maximum RAM size 3200 in Lithuania.

If 5800x makes more sense for you, here's the full ATX version of the motherboard I use. Tier S- VRMs, holds up to the 5800x just fine. People either love or hate on MSI. I went with it because it was the only mini ITX that fit my needs. The board is also 70 Euro cheaper than the ASUS Intel board. The 5800x is 30 Euro more than the 10850k, so motherboard and CPU are 40 E cheaper.

https://www.varle.lt/pagrindines-plokstes/pagrindine-plokstemsiamd-b550sam4atx2xpci-express--14197733.html

Like @Mister Woofsaid, if you went with the AMD you could get PCIE 4.0 If you wanted to stay with a 1tb Samsung, the 980 Pro is PCIE 4.0 for 60 Euro more than the 970 plus. So for changing those three parts, you're 20 Euro more on PCIE 4.0.

 

[Debenzor]

4 hours ago, Herkul said:

Is I9 10850K still worth the buying? It is 450 USD cheaper here than 5900X. Mainly for Photoshop, Lightroom and some 4 K editing. Not going to game.

 

Thanks.

I bought a 10850k for 320$.Definitely worth it if you can get it less then 350 

[Mister Woof]

3 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

If 5800x makes more sense for you, here's the full ATX version of the motherboard I use. Tier S- VRMs, holds up to the 5800x just fine. People either love or hate on MSI. I went with it because it was the only mini ITX that fit my needs. The board is also 70 Euro cheaper than the ASUS Intel board. The 5800x is 30 Euro more than the 10850k, so motherboard and CPU are 40 E cheaper.

https://www.varle.lt/pagrindines-plokstes/pagrindine-plokstemsiamd-b550sam4atx2xpci-express--14197733.html

Like @Mister Woofsaid, if you went with the AMD you could get PCIE 4.0 If you wanted to stay with a 1tb Samsung, the 980 Pro is PCIE 4.0 for 60 Euro more than the 970 plus. So for changing those three parts, you're 20 Euro more on PCIE 4.0.

 

IDK if I'm helping, LOL.

 

On the one hand, I say stop debating and buy something.

 

Then he posts a list and I say, "weeeeeelllll..."

 

Had to plug the AMD one last time so I don't get called an Intel fanboy. Sorry.

[Herkul]

Just now, Debenzor said:

I bought a 10850k for 320$.Definitely worth it if you can get it less then 350 

Tempting price. Here it costs 500 USD.

[Herkul]

Just now, Mister Woof said:

IDK if I'm helping, LOL.

 

On the one hand, I say stop debating and buy something.

 

Then he posts a list and I say, "weeeeeelllll..."

 

Had to plug the AMD one last time so I don't get called an Intel fanboy. Sorry.

Ahahaha. It never ends. I am mindfu**** myself which one to go with again and again.

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Mister Woof said:

IDK if I'm helping, LOL.

 

On the one hand, I say stop debating and buy something.

 

Then he posts a list and I say, "weeeeeelllll..."

 

Had to plug the AMD one last time so I don't get called an Intel fanboy. Sorry.

That's where I'm at. Historically, Intel Intel Intel. Currently, all AMD in my rig. 

However, with what Puget is saying about the 5800x in Lightroom, and knowing their history and all the testing they do is the only reason I'm pushing for the 5800x in this case.

 

Spoiler

It's a super long video, but there's about 10 minutes from where I timestamped that show the excessive amounts of testing they do. They make all their findings public which is a huge bonus and is repeatable. They're kind of a less known Gamers Nexus when it comes to testing products, but they do their tests for software, not hardware raw performance. 

 

[Herkul]

Just now, IkeaGnome said:

That's where I'm at. Historically, Intel Intel Intel. Currently, all AMD in my rig. 

However, with what Puget is saying about the 5800x in Lightroom, and knowing their history and all the testing they do is the only reason I'm pushing for the 5800x in this case.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's a super long video, but there's about 10 minutes from where I timestamped that show the excessive amounts of testing they do. They make all their findings public which is a huge bonus and is repeatable. They're kind of a less known Gamers Nexus when it comes to testing products, but they do their tests for software, not hardware raw performance. 

 

Anyone wanna build me 5800x system? Would say a big thanks.

[IkeaGnome]

34 minutes ago, Herkul said:

What do you think about this: Cost: 1864 USD

 

CPU: i9 i9-10850K

 

CPU COOLER: CPU COOLER MULTI SOCKET/KRAKEN X73 RGB RL-KRX73R1 NZXT

 

RAM: G.Skill 32 Kit (16GBx2) GB, DDR4, 3200 MHz, PC/serveris, Registered No, ECC No

 

PSU: CORSAIR Builder TX850 850W Semi-Modular 80 Pus Gold Power Supply

 

SSD: SAMSUNG|970 Evo 1TB

 

MOTHERBOARD: Asus PRIME Z590-A

 

COOLERS: Lian Li ST120 RGB PWM Lüfter, 3er Pack inkl. Controller - 120mm, baltas

 

CASE: Fractal Design Meshify C white

 

GPU: Keeping an old AMD Radeon R9 270X for now

 

9 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

If 5800x makes more sense for you, here's the full ATX version of the motherboard I use. Tier S- VRMs, holds up to the 5800x just fine. People either love or hate on MSI. I went with it because it was the only mini ITX that fit my needs. The board is also 70 Euro cheaper than the ASUS Intel board. The 5800x is 30 Euro more than the 10850k, so motherboard and CPU are 40 E cheaper.

https://www.varle.lt/pagrindines-plokstes/pagrindine-plokstemsiamd-b550sam4atx2xpci-express--14197733.html

Like @Mister Woofsaid, if you went with the AMD you could get PCIE 4.0 If you wanted to stay with a 1tb Samsung, the 980 Pro is PCIE 4.0 for 60 Euro more than the 970 plus. So for changing those three parts, you're 20 Euro more on PCIE 4.0.

 

 

Just now, Herkul said:

Anyone wanna build me 5800x system? Would say a big thanks.

Already did. Just swap motherboard, CPU and SSD with the list you posted to the ones I posted. Or if you want to stay away from MSI, we can find other options and brands

The ASUS Prime Z590, is there any particular reason you picked that board? Color scheme, USB slots, brand?

[Herkul]

Just now, IkeaGnome said:

 

 

Already did. Just swap motherboard, CPU and SSD with the list you posted to the ones I posted. Or if you want to stay away from MSI, we can find other options and brands

The ASUS Prime Z590, is there any particular reason you picked that board? Color scheme, USB slots, brand?

Mostly color scheme. And AI overlooking. But I am sure this function is useless.

[Herkul]

https://www.varle.lt/pagrindines-plokstes/pagrindine-plokste-asus-rog-strix-b550-f-gaming-wi-fi--14196152.html

 

+7 5800 x

 

 

[Herkul]

Or shall I go with B570 motherboard?

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, Herkul said:

Mostly color scheme. And AI overlooking. But I am sure this function is useless.

In that case, here's the X570 version. Same price as the MSI B550, a little bit more features in the chipset. And pretty much same color scheme. Tier A VRMs, should still hold up plenty fine with a 5800x. As far as how their PBO works and all that, I'm not sure. 

https://www.varle.lt/pagrindines-plokstes/pagrindine-plokste-asus-prime-x570-p-am4-x570-4--10940141.html

 

As far as how overclocking would work on AMD, here's a couple of quick videos on how PBO works, and a really good undervolt guide. It is very possible to undervolt and get an overclock in return.

Spoiler

 

Since I said I would work on explaining why the 5800x is so hot once I was at my computer.

Spoiler

It has to do with how AMD is handling changes to their charged coupled devices(CCD). Each CPU core complex (CCX) allows for up to 8 cores and 16 threads. The 5600x will have 2 cores and 4 threads of it's CCX disabled. The CCX isn't being pushed as hard by default. The 5900X and 5950X will each have 2 sets of CCX, with the 5900X having 2c/4t disabled in each one. There's two there, but they're not working hard. This is why cooling a 5900x is almost closer to trying to cool a 5600x than a 5800x or 5950x. The 5950x will have 2 CCX with all cores and threads enable. It's a hot son of a gun. However, you are usually not using each CCX as hard due to how core and thread usage is handled. 

Where people get into trouble with the 5800x specifically is that it's "Only" 8 cores and 16 threads. It should be easy to cool, but the components on the 5800x are working "harder" and producing more heat than they expect.

 

5600x/5800x

5900x/5950x

 

That's at least my $0.02 on what I've gathered reading about Zen 3.