Is a movie "Cinematic" only because of framerate?

[Ash_Kechummm]

TL;DR: this is a playlist link (yay I'm a playlist), I want y'all to watch it and tell me if you prefer clip 1 or clip 2 for a better experience in your home theater. I also want you guys to put the reasoning behind your answers as replies. Also please no hit and runs, the poll on its own isn't useful, I do need people explaining why they felt the way they did

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Okay so, I'm tired of seeing people argue to death over why low framerates are "better for a cinematic feel" without explaining why they feel so in a relatable manner, so I uploaded this playlist with a relatively quiet scene and an action scene (from movies that i definitely own), with two different framerates (one is at the original 24 fps, while i used something called RIFE {Real-time Intermediate Flow Estimation for video frame interpolation} to double the framerate to 48 fps), to act as a level ground of sorts; no matter what our opinion is, we are able to explain what we see and why, if all of us share common context.

Now, my own opinion is pretty harsh:

Spoiler

From that playlist, I prefer the higher framerate for the quiet scene, although the lower framerate isn't that much of a problem; for the action scene though, i feel like a higher framerate is necessary.

but I won't tell anyone to defend their opinion (and I expect everyone to respect each other's opinions), I only want people to keep their opinions forward so that i can understand why people would (or wouldn't) feel that the "cinematic feel" of a movie is gone if you increase the framerate.

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to Home Theater Equipment

[dilpickle]

Nothing is inherently "cinematic". Its just based on lifelong associations. All movies are 24fps so people think that feels "cinematic" while anything higher is "soap opera".

 

As a lifelong cinephile I look forward to the day when higher framerates become the norm.

[tikker]

On 2/17/2021 at 5:03 AM, Ash_Kechummm said:

why people would (or wouldn't) feel that the "cinematic feel" of a movie is gone if you increase the framerate.

To my knowledge the reason film is still shot at 24 FPS is because it historically always has been. Over time this feel has become ingrained in our minds and is what we expect to see in a movie. Higher FPS will cause the soap opera effect. Of course you can argue it's a style and a matter of choice, but it's really hard to move away from it. They have tried it, but people didn't like it.

 

I have also read views that it might be related to the uncanny valley. It looks too fluid and realistic which triggers your brain to realize it's not and you are just watching a movie.

[Ash_Kechummm]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

It looks too fluid and realistic

Could you please explain this? I never understood how it feels too fluid or smooth, I've always experienced real life as smoother than even 120 Hz

[tikker]

49 minutes ago, Ash_Kechummm said:

Could you please explain this? I never understood how it feels too fluid or smooth, I've always experienced real life as smoother than even 120 Hz

Take your 24 FPS clip and then watch you 48 FPS clip. The latter looks smoother. Too much smoother, because we are so used and trained to 24p. The smoothness distracts so much from what is on screen that it breaks immersion.

[Ash_Kechummm]

2 hours ago, tikker said:

because we are so used and trained to 24p.

Ah, undestood.

 

I've played games all my life, while I've only begun watching movies in the past couple of years, so that might be why the higher framerate is more natural for me.

 

Thanks!

[tikker]

1 hour ago, Ash_Kechummm said:

Ah, undestood.

 

I've played games all my life, while I've only begun watching movies in the past couple of years, so that might be why the higher framerate is more natural for me.

 

Thanks!

It must also be different for the younger generations that now grow up with >60 FPS and Hz being so mainstream now. I've played games from the SNES on a CRT to 4k HDR on my OLED of 144 Hz on my monitor and it does make a ton of difference. For gaming I like the smoothness of high framerate, but for watching movies I'll take the "classic way".

[harryk]

To me the higher frame rate clips are easily discernible and less preferred. In the higher frame rate clips I notice motion more clearly and it breaks the immersion of the moment. For example in the first few seconds of the quiet clip, my eyes are immediately drawn to her eye lids when she blinks and it looks unnaturally fast in the high frame rate clip and ruins the mood. All I notice is how quickly she opened her eyes rather than the calming mood the picture conveys. 

 

As others has pointed out it definitely has to do with what we are accustomed to. Though I argue there is an actual physical reason as well, motion blur.

 

There is a rule of thumb in cinematography to shoot at 24 fps with a 180 deg shutter angle. This yields a certain amount of motion blur which looks "natural" (whatever that means). A reduced shutter angle results in less motion blur and sharper images which tend to convey more motion and action, though can sometimes look hyper-realistic. The same happens with a higher frame rate which inherently has less motion blur. 

[theonly500]

For me it is not about the Framerate. It is rather about the artifacts generated by the Algorithm.
With the 48 FPS Clips I could easily see some artifacting and that is what breaks them for me.

Maybe something with 48 fps converted to 24 fps would be a better comparison there. But even then you will get artifacting.
There are pros and cons to both and higher FPS tends to give you a sharper image. You can make that go away with clever filming.

But in the End it comes down to what you are going to film when and where.
TV shows are usally filmed at 50 or 60 fps. Either interlaced or progressive. Those had these issues since they were born.
But Series made for TV look great, because that is the natural way they were ment to be viewed.
In the End it always boils down to the Medium you record for.
And that is something wich you have to select, before you start shooting.

But for me a cinematic movie is way more than a number of frames.
It is a style and quality of picture, narration, lighting, color, etc. And not just aspect ratio, fps, or dynamic range.