CyberPunk 2077 hate is uncalled for

[SteveGrabowski0]

33 minutes ago, YoMz said:

but that is exactly my point... the official specs of the PS4 only qualify it for the lowest possible settings on 1080p... because those are almost the exact same specs of the PS4 on launch... and the PS4 did not launch with an SSD as well, but a standard 500gb or 1TB hard drive (which is atleast 10x slower than any SSD, which is part of the system requirements) this is why console players had a crap ton of issues on launch (how do people keep forgetting the PS4 did not launch with SSD) and that's not even accounting for HARDWARE DEGREDATION... and the fact that if you ONLY ever own a console, the likelihood that you play that on your living room with your 4K res TV is the most probable case(which destroys your basic performance even more) because that's what the sales for 4K TVs tell you since 2013... this is why I pointed them out specifically and have been pointing out 4K as well...

 

there is a reason why almost all PS4 and Xbox One games are benchmarked on the PC instead of the consoles themselves...

 

and if anyone's forgotten, the PS4 was originally designed and produced to play games in OpenGL, DX9 and DX11 at the latest... CP2077 came out to play at DX12 by default... (architecture-wise, the PS4 is really way behind... 7 generations of processors and graphics, and just imagine how many iterations of software, and we're not talking about RTX performance yet)

I am not trying to trash the console players because I have owned and still own a working PS2 since I was in gradeschool... all I'm saying is that if you account for standard HARDWARE DEGREDATION and the fact that the PS4 barely qualifies for the lowest settings possible for the game at 1080p, how did PS4 players expect to play at more than 30fps? this is why I pointed out GTA V, which is a very similar game (gameplay wise) to CP2077... because if you max out all of the settings of that game (including the advanced settings) the PS4 struggles with it even at 1080p (even Digital Foundry has a list for optimized PS4 settings for GTA V for the best experience possible)

 

I am comparing this game to CRYSIS 3 just because of how the engine seems to work... if you are not aware of it, everything you see ingame is made up of innumerable triangles, more triangles means more fidelity (each of which is being mathematically calculated by the hardware and then rendered to your screen) CRYSIS 3 had way too many triangles for each of the random environmental elements for that game, that's why it was a hardware nightmare... the same thing applies to CP2077... the game is hard to run not because of the final graphics you see, but the sheer amount of triangles that are in each and every element of the game...

 

the PS4 was never designed to run the RedEngine4 which CP2077 uses as its game engine... CDPR tried (very horribly at that) to accommodate previous generation console players for the sake of sales, but you simply just can not ignore the simple fact that the sheer spec requirement for the game automatically disqualifies the PS4 for any reasonable game experience beyond 30fps... also, you can still get the game on the PS5, just not on the PS4...
 

What a load. The recommended spec PC can barely run the game at PS4 settings. This shit release is completely unacceptable which is why it is being rightfully pulled from sale. Somehow Red Dead Redemption 2, Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us Part II, Uncharted 4, God of War, and a ton of other games can have extremely impressive graphics and run at 30 fps on the PS4 but with Cyberpunk to get that level of graphics and framerate I need a GTX 1060 6GB that's 2.5x as powerful as the PS4's gpu and an i7-4790 that can't be any less than 4x the power of the Jaguar cpus in the PS4. And Cyberpunk looks like some weird superposition of N64 and PS3 on the PS4 and XB1. Putting shit in all caps doesn't make any of your points any better. I hope you're being paid for CD PR for this ridiculous white knighting you're doing for a game that was a straight up scam pulled on their biggest userbase, though from the quality of your arguments I doubt they'd be paying you much in that case considering you seem to think ridiculous crap like base PS4 renders games at 4k.

[YoMz]

On 12/20/2020 at 4:40 AM, YoMz said:

everyone is (in general) in agreement that CDPR did f*ck over most, if not all, of their loyal fanbase with how unexpectedly taxing the game would be for any specs... just because I had a good experience with the game doesn't mean CDPR didn't f*ck up (merits and demerits where it's due)

 

On 12/20/2020 at 4:40 AM, YoMz said:

what we should be collectively angry at CDPR for however, is that they should've never bothered putting support for previous generation consoles knowing full well that it will never really run as it should because of the sheer spec requirement for the game... this is a clear money grab move to cash in more money from the player base... them offering full refund is the least they could do... but they need to do more to get back the respect they lost...

if this is me whiteknighting then I guess I have the wrong interpretation of that word all this time, huh...

 

3 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

What a load. The recommended spec PC can barely run the game at PS4 settings

and yet you still think that the game should run fine on PS4 when a PC of higher spec can barely run it... SMH

 

3 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

you seem to think ridiculous crap like base PS4 renders games at 4k.

when did the PS4 do this? even the PS4 Pro only NATIVELY streams and playbacks at 4K, and gameplay is rendered at 1080p and then UPSCALED to 4K (which I have repeatedly mentioned) or is that one and the same to you? because those are two different rendering schemes to me...

[Mister Woof]

Got 92 hours on record. Finished the game once, and am working on my second playthrough.

 

My full PC review (as spoiler-free as possible):

 

Story, World, Quests:

As someone who has never played the OG Cyberpunk 2020 tabletop game, but who loves the genre in general, I found the the main story to be solid. It offers a good foundation to build upon, that is quite immersive if not a bit on-rails. That said, if you play for JUST the main storyline, you're missing out a LOT on the side quests that really flesh out the world of Night City. You need to get at least 40 hours into the game, complete the side objectives, and read the shards and messages and listen to the dialogue to get the real experience. That said, I feel they should have rolled some of the side content into the main story to force you to experience it, as it greatly enhances the effect of the main storyline. There's entire storylines that go unnoticed easily if you don't go out of your way to be a "completionist".

 

The world feels really really immersive, minus the NPC AI (more on that later), with some good variation between different parts of the city where you can really tell where the rick CORPOS live and where everyone else suffers. The outskirts of Night City, including the badlands, are a nice change of pace, and it feels a lot like you're going into a different game when you go there versus in the big city. Perhaps there's some potential with other locations outside the city for DLC. That would be cool.

 

I feel there should have been more focus on the background of each character. There doesn't always seem like a time when your player's background really makes a difference. Also, there don't really appear to be any faction memory, so there seems to be few consequences to any of your game-play related actions. Often I found myself trying to leverage my background in dialogue, and it didn't really seem to matter. It also seems any path besides CORPO felt a bit unfinished and/or underutilized. 

 

I would like this to be expanded upon. I also felt the romances could have used some work - that is, some more choices. For every gender identity/orientation, you have only one option. Additionally, some of them are entirely possible to completely miss if you aren't trying to be a "completionist" with side story. This sort of ties into the first point about side-content being mandatory. There's also only one of each gender identity for "Joy Toys", which for a game that is so blatantly sexual, it could have used some more options. A minor gripe, which wouldn't have been even an issue if the game wasn't so in-your-face sex, but since it is, it needs to be considered. 

 

The endings (of which there are many) are mostly varied enough, but with enough consistency to give the player an idea of what the writers wanted you to feel.

 

Overall, the story, characters, world, and quests feel great. It loses a few points for player background, faction reputation, structure, and romance options.

 

SCORE: 8

 

Graphics:

The graphics in this game, especially with (or even without) ray tracing, are simply amazing. Reflections especially are breathtaking. Night City during the evening feels so alive and vibrant, it deserves an award. Some of the models are a bit wonky, as are some of the animations, but otherwise there's a great attention to detail on most things. I was never once let down by the graphics regarding immersion and awe in CP2077. As long as everything was going the way it was supposed to, immersion was never broken, and some of the story content, while a bit on-rails, felt really cinematic and intense. I won't include the graphics bugs, because more on that later. 

 

SCORE: 9

 

Sound/Music:

The sound effects in this game are quite good. Gun shots and swordplay sounds sound like they have weight, car sounds are good, and otherwise general sound effects are fine.

 

Music - the few tracks you can identify while playing the game sound really good. I do feel that there should be more variety in the music you DO hear, because unless you're driving, it's only the combat music really, which can feel a bit repetitive at times. The music while driving is amazing. It's unfortunate you can't hear it outside of driving, as the fast travel points make car driving less useful therefore you don't hear the music that is good as often. Possibly a portable music player addon would make the music department a lot better. 

 

SCORE: 6

 

Combat/Gameplay:

Overall, the combat engine feels great. It's nothing groundbreaking, but it works. Which coming from something like Fallout, is a big deal. Using your weapons, your quickhacks, your perks, and different strategies to defeat your enemies feels great.

 

One problem is that a lot of the perks either don't work or aren't really impactful from a gameplay perspective. 5% more damage is cool and all (and unverifiable), but it doesn't make your game play any different. In general I dislike passive abilities that don't change the way your gameplay feels. A lot of perks do, but a lot don't.

 

The enemy AI is also something that needs to be addressed. It's terrible. Even on hard, the game's enemies never felt like a challenge, and they often will just stand around doing nothing. 

 

Crafting is fun. It feels mandatory, though, because unless you craft yourself the magic shotgun of death, you're always going to be pretty weak. So builds that don't heavily invest in crafting for good gear with the right mods will be severely at a disadvantage.

 

The game loses a few points for the RPG elements, but wins points for being solid in actual combat.

 

SCORE: 7

 

Technical: 

Since this is the review of the PC version, on a relatively high-end PC (See signature), it is limited to the experience I had. The vast vast majority of technical issues I experiences in this game were minor graphical bugs that didn't affect gameplay. A few times though, it happened during a story moment that damaged the immersion. Other times, it was comical, and possibly added to the fun factor. There were a few instances of quests bugging out on me requiring restarts or reloads of saves, and there does seem to be some kind of memory leak as playing for 4-5 hours will cause me to experience low GPU usage and framerate drops - this is not a hardware or thermal issue, as all temps are fine and it only happens in this game. Saving and restarting solves the issue. Another issue is sometimes my health bar, braindance controls, etc., just would disappear.  I'll include the wonky AI, strange animations, strange interactions, and overall WTFery in this category. So this is the lowest scoring field.

 

SCORE: 5

 

Fun/COOL Factor: 10

The game just feels fantastic to play. If it wasn't fun, I wouldn't have 92 hours into the game and be on my second playthrough. Often I'll find myself completely ignoring any side quests or main story for the whole day, and am just wandering around the city/badlands looking for loot, crimes in progress, gang activity, etc. etc. Or testing out new guns and striving for maxing out my crafted weapons upgrades. The overall feeling of the game is great, and despite the bugs, despite the drawbacks, the game is just fun as FUCK to play.

 

SCORE: 10

 

Overall, I want to give this game a solid 9 or 10. But I know I can't, because of the aforementioned detriments. As I said, the bones are there, and I think with some iteration, this would be an AMAZING game. Perhaps Cyberpunk 2078 will come through as the best version of Cyberpunk 2077. I'm looking forward to the DLCs and any sequels this may spawn.

 

 

STORY: 8

GRAPHICS: 9

Sound/Music: 6

Combat/Gameplay: 7

Technical: 5

Fun/COOL: 10

 

OVERALL SCORE:  7.5

 

Regarding console performance..CDPR should never have promised PS4/XBONE base support. It's painfully obvious these systems can't handle the game, and they harmed themselves by making it for consoles. It should have been PC only at first, with a backport to PS5/XSX later. The backlash would have been much much less apparent if they did it this way. And it would have allowed them to spend the time instead to refine the PC version so it would have had less technical issues to start with.

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

16 hours ago, YoMz said:

 

if this is me whiteknighting then I guess I have the wrong interpretation of that word all this time, huh...

 

and yet you still think that the game should run fine on PS4 when a PC of higher spec can barely run it... SMH

 

when did the PS4 do this? even the PS4 Pro only NATIVELY streams and playbacks at 4K, and gameplay is rendered at 1080p and then UPSCALED to 4K (which I have repeatedly mentioned) or is that one and the same to you? because those are two different rendering schemes to me...

Why do you keep saying that most ps4 users are playing on 4k screens?

 

Where do you get this information from?

 

Also, have you ever played GTA5 on base ps4, or the pro?

 

Because, if you have, you'll know it runs perfectly well and is a very playable console experience. 

 

But, it was built to run on ps3, as I've intimidated previously, so that's to be expected. 

 

I'm simply not sure what you are trying to say.

 

Is it that Xbox One and ps4 owners had no right to expect a playable game, even though CDPR announced it as a (then) current gen game, repeatedly said it ran well on said machines, then released it on said machines at full 60+ retail price?

 

Is that what you are saying?

 

Of course, the fact they forced a pc review embargo and offered no console code for review was a big red flag, but still...people had been told it ran, saw it on sale, and, assuming it would be at least a competent port and somewhat playable, paid their money and were subsequently ripped off. 

 

It was neither a competent port nor somewhat playable. 

 

[Katze]

Honestly I can count the bugs I have encountered on one hand, after 57 hours of gameplay. And none of them have been game-breaking.

The hate I understand for the console version, if the game is unplayable, its unplayable. But on PC at least, it doesn't play any worse than an Elder Scrolls game.

 

Just waiting for my 3070 to arrive...

[Sarra]

1 hour ago, Katze said:

Honestly I can count the bugs I have encountered on one hand, after 57 hours of gameplay. And none of them have been game-breaking.

The hate I understand for the console version, if the game is unplayable, its unplayable. But on PC at least, it doesn't play any worse than an Elder Scrolls game.

 

Just waiting for my 3070 to arrive...

It plays worse than Skyrim for me. I could run Skyrim maxed, 1080p, but I can't run Cyberpunk maxed at 1080p. Medium was stretching it, and low gets me a consistent FPS.

 

But, I'm also running a Ryzen 9 3900x with a GTX 980, so... There is that.

[Amias]

42 minutes ago, Sarra said:

It plays worse than Skyrim for me. I could run Skyrim maxed, 1080p, but I can't run Cyberpunk maxed at 1080p. Medium was stretching it, and low gets me a consistent FPS.

 

But, I'm also running a Ryzen 9 3900x with a GTX 980, so... There is that.

Are you complaining that a 9 year old game runs better than a 3 week old game? ... ?

[Katze]

27 minutes ago, Amias said:

Are you complaining that a 9 year old game runs better than a 3 week old game? ... ?

 

 

[Sarra]

27 minutes ago, Amias said:

Are you complaining that a 9 year old game runs better than a 3 week old game? ... ?

Did you read the post I quoted? Because I was responding to that.

[Katze]

1 minute ago, Sarra said:

Did you read the post I quoted? Because I was responding to that.

I was referring to "how it plays" not "how it runs."

I just meant the bugs are really no worse than an Elder Scrolls game, in my experience anyway (and 4 other friends).

 

And yeah, I sold my 1070 expecting my 3070 to be here already, and am using an old 980 in the meantime... it doesn't run well...

[YoMz]

9 hours ago, Maury Sells Wigs said:

Why do you keep saying that most ps4 users are playing on 4k screens?

 

Where do you get this information from?

as I keep repeating myself, STRICTLY CONSOLE ONLY players (most if not all of them have 4K screens because they play it on their living room / TVs because that's what the sales numbers of big screen displays since 2013 tell you)
I am not talking about people with both PC and Console for this specific part of my statement...

there are multiple combinations of people who played the game but the INITIAL BARRAGE of hate comments that were seen on any forum, thread and social media were because of those STRICTLY CONSOLE ONLY players raging that they couldn't play the game at all... even if you go to any PS4 forums and threads now, most of the performance issue posts have died down because people have figured out what was causing them already (even optimal settings are out now for any resolution you play on), now the focus is actually finding bugs and glitches on the game... because they have realized since, that if you've never tinkered with your console since owning it, then it will most likely not play the game for a reasonable experience because CDPR f*cked up the previous gen console port of the game...

also, people who are familiar or have experienced UPGRADING their systems over the course of their ownership (people with both pc and console), most of them have also upgraded their consoles with an SSD which have alleviated quite a good number of performance issues with the vanilla consoles...

I am also repeatedly mentioning GTA V because that's the only real game you can actually have an apples to apples comparison with CP2077 (atleast right now) if you think GTA V can run on a vanilla PS4 (without an SSD upgrade) on 1080p ultra settings including the advanced settings then you are in for a rough ride... you can try it and see for yourself... the game runs far better in comparison to CP2077, which is why I am mentioning it in the first place... because if you see the SYSTEM LOAD for both games, you will see that CP2077 at lowest settings consumes more resources than GTA V even at peak settings (which is a clear indication that optimization for the game for the previous gen consoles is crap shoot, which is why I mentioned that the game engine should be reviewed) I have mentioned and will keep mentioning GTA V in the same breathe as CP2077 because of the simple fact that those two games are very comparable to each other (game mechanics, quest style, gameplay, genre)

maybe you are too rich to realize this, but a lot of people who ONLY OWN consoles since 2013, their only upgrade path was to buy a better display they can game on (4K displays went as low as 200-300 bucks, which is not enough to buy into a decent complete PC build) these are also the specific people who had complaints on the day of the launch...

people have in fact finished the game in their consoles after the patch 1.04 came out... they still suffered glitches and bugs like the rest of us, but they were still able to finish the game regardless, and some of them are still playing...
 

as for us pc gamers who also own consoles, most of us play on a variety of displays (1080p, 1440p, 4k, 60hz or higher)

 

if you've never played on a vanilla console with an HDD versus one upgraded into an SSD then you would never relate to this... as a PC owner you should know how big a difference just upgrading into an SSD does with gameplay in general... *upgrading the consoles to an SSD was actually the most recommended upgrade path for console owners because that's the cheapest way to get better performance for the least amount of money*

the game is a hardware nightmare for any kind of rig, even the highest ones, because it just released ON A NEW ENGINE that no other game or graphics driver has ever supported before... this is why I also pointed out the immediate issues that followed the release of other games that came out with new game engines... this is normal and to be expected, because that's just how things work when something is new, it takes atleast a few days to a few months to fully optimize it... (some games even take years because the hardware just isn't there yet *hence the mention of CRYSIS 3 in particular*)

nobody here is defending CDPR, they f*cked up, royally because they "rushed" the game release as I said in my original post... even their investors are considering lawsuits if you've read the news... nobody is happy about it... 

[xAcid9]

CDP is the one to blame here, they should've not released the game on last gen console. They fucking know it.

[xAcid9]

4 hours ago, YoMz said:

as I keep repeating myself, STRICTLY CONSOLE ONLY players (most if not all of them have 4K screens because they play it on their living room / TVs because that's what the sales numbers of big screen displays since 2013 tell you)

Doesn't matter if they use a 4k or even 8k screen, game still only render below 1080p and FPS can drop below 20. That's horrible, not to mention the frame time is shit as well. 

 

4 hours ago, YoMz said:

even if you go to any PS4 forums and threads now, most of the performance issue posts have died down because people have figured out what was causing them already (even optimal settings are out now for any resolution you play on),

No, they probably refunded the game. Performance is still shit on base PS4 and XBONE.

 

4 hours ago, YoMz said:

I am also repeatedly mentioning GTA V because that's the only real game you can actually have an apples to apples comparison with CP2077

What kind of dumb logic is this? That's like comparing Gran Turismo 1 on PS1 vs Gran Turismo 6 on PS4. (similar game mechanic, playstyle, yada yada. Right?)
When GTA:V released on PS4 7 years ago, CDPR just started doing some rough sketch of CP2077. 
 

4 hours ago, YoMz said:

maybe you are too rich to realize this, but a lot of people who ONLY OWN consoles since 2013, their only upgrade path was to buy a better display they can game on (4K displays went as low as 200-300 bucks, which is not enough to buy into a decent complete PC build) these are also the specific people who had complaints on the day of the launch...

Again, doesn't matter. Most PS4 games still render@1080p/900p or even lower.

 

4 hours ago, YoMz said:

people have in fact finished the game in their consoles after the patch 1.04 came out... they still suffered glitches and bugs like the rest of us, but they were still able to finish the game regardless, and some of them are still playing...

You meant they're "done" with the game? kekw

 

4 hours ago, YoMz said:

the game is a hardware nightmare for any kind of rig, even the highest ones, because it just released ON A NEW ENGINE

No, it's on the same engine Witcher series use. 

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

5 hours ago, YoMz said:

as I keep repeating myself, STRICTLY CONSOLE ONLY players (most if not all of them have 4K screens because they play it on their living room / TVs because that's what the sales numbers of big screen displays since 2013 tell you)
I am not talking about people with both PC and Console for this specific part of my statement...

there are multiple combinations of people who played the game but the INITIAL BARRAGE of hate comments that were seen on any forum, thread and social media were because of those STRICTLY CONSOLE ONLY players raging that they couldn't play the game at all... even if you go to any PS4 forums and threads now, most of the performance issue posts have died down because people have figured out what was causing them already (even optimal settings are out now for any resolution you play on), now the focus is actually finding bugs and glitches on the game... because they have realized since, that if you've never tinkered with your console since owning it, then it will most likely not play the game for a reasonable experience because CDPR f*cked up the previous gen console port of the game...

also, people who are familiar or have experienced UPGRADING their systems over the course of their ownership (people with both pc and console), most of them have also upgraded their consoles with an SSD which have alleviated quite a good number of performance issues with the vanilla consoles...

I am also repeatedly mentioning GTA V because that's the only real game you can actually have an apples to apples comparison with CP2077 (atleast right now) if you think GTA V can run on a vanilla PS4 (without an SSD upgrade) on 1080p ultra settings including the advanced settings then you are in for a rough ride... you can try it and see for yourself... the game runs far better in comparison to CP2077, which is why I am mentioning it in the first place... because if you see the SYSTEM LOAD for both games, you will see that CP2077 at lowest settings consumes more resources than GTA V even at peak settings (which is a clear indication that optimization for the game for the previous gen consoles is crap shoot, which is why I mentioned that the game engine should be reviewed) I have mentioned and will keep mentioning GTA V in the same breathe as CP2077 because of the simple fact that those two games are very comparable to each other (game mechanics, quest style, gameplay, genre)

maybe you are too rich to realize this, but a lot of people who ONLY OWN consoles since 2013, their only upgrade path was to buy a better display they can game on (4K displays went as low as 200-300 bucks, which is not enough to buy into a decent complete PC build) these are also the specific people who had complaints on the day of the launch...

people have in fact finished the game in their consoles after the patch 1.04 came out... they still suffered glitches and bugs like the rest of us, but they were still able to finish the game regardless, and some of them are still playing...
 

as for us pc gamers who also own consoles, most of us play on a variety of displays (1080p, 1440p, 4k, 60hz or higher)

 

if you've never played on a vanilla console with an HDD versus one upgraded into an SSD then you would never relate to this... as a PC owner you should know how big a difference just upgrading into an SSD does with gameplay in general... *upgrading the consoles to an SSD was actually the most recommended upgrade path for console owners because that's the cheapest way to get better performance for the least amount of money*

the game is a hardware nightmare for any kind of rig, even the highest ones, because it just released ON A NEW ENGINE that no other game or graphics driver has ever supported before... this is why I also pointed out the immediate issues that followed the release of other games that came out with new game engines... this is normal and to be expected, because that's just how things work when something is new, it takes atleast a few days to a few months to fully optimize it... (some games even take years because the hardware just isn't there yet *hence the mention of CRYSIS 3 in particular*)

nobody here is defending CDPR, they f*cked up, royally because they "rushed" the game release as I said in my original post... even their investors are considering lawsuits if you've read the news... nobody is happy about it... 

So, you are saying the "sales numbers" of 4k televisions means people who own a ps4 are playing on those same televisions?

 

What on earth are you blathering on about?

 

How do you know that the (as an example - not using real figures) 10 million people who bought a 4k television from 2013 to 2020 also bought or owned a ps4?

 

Because 10 million (again, just a random number to illustrate a point) people also bought a ps4?

 

Is that your argument?

 

How do you draw that conclusion?

 

Who says it's not over 45s upgrading their television, as they tend do every 5-10 years (think normal size CRT, then big CRT, then flatscreen 1080p, then curved, UHD, 4k etc...), and has absolutely nothing to do with people buying 4k televisions to play their ps4 on?

 

Besides, a 4k t.v was still pretty expensive in 2013, and through 14, 15, even into 2016 and on - and have still not become ubiquitous the way 1080 had after it replaced old CRTs 10 years back.

 

Sorry, but I simply don't believe you have made a compelling case that the two are linked in any meaningful way.

 

As for GTA5, you can compare them if you want - I guess as open world games with a story element they are somewhat similar. 

 

Except, Rockstar never told people it would run on ps3 then released a bug infested mess.

 

In fact, their fundamentals were so solid, and their product so well made, that the game is still going strong today across 5 different platforms and has had mods released which make it look as good as anything available anywhere...on a game 7+ years old that was originally built to run on ps3/xbox 360.

 

 

 

[Minicoop]

1 hour ago, xAcid9 said:

No, it's on the same engine Witcher series use.

It is on a new engine though The Witcher 3 was on the Redengine 3 and Cyberpunk runs off of the Redengine 4

Quote

REDengine 3 was designed to run exclusively on a 64-bit software platform. CD Projekt Red created REDengine 3 for the purpose of developing open world^[56] video game environments, such as those of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. It introduces improvements to facial and other animations.^[56] Lighting effects no longer suffer from reduced contrast ratio.^[56] REDengine 3 also supports volumetric effects enabling advanced rendering of clouds, mist, fog, smoke, and other particle effects. There is also support for high-resolution textures and mapping, as well as dynamic physics and an advanced dialogue lip-syncing system. However, due to limitations on texture streaming, the use of high-resolution textures may not always be the case.^{[citation needed]}

REDengine 3 has a flexible renderer prepared for deferred or forward+ rendering pipelines.^[56] The result is a wide array of cinematic effects, including bokeh depth-of-view, color grading and lens flares associated with multiple lighting.^[56] The terrain system in REDengine 3 uses tessellation and layers varying material, which can then be easily blended.^[56]

Cyberpunk 2077 uses REDengine 4, the next iteration of the REDengine.^[63] It introduces support for ray-traced global illumination and other effects, with this technique being applied in Cyberpunk 2077.^[

 

[xAcid9]

2 minutes ago, Minicoop said:

Cyberpunk 2077 uses REDengine 4, the next iteration of the REDengine.

It still REDEngine, upgraded version of RED3. Not a totally new engine. 

[Amias]

7 hours ago, Sarra said:

Did you read the post I quoted? Because I was responding to that.

"I could run Skyrim maxed, 1080p, but I can't run Cyberpunk maxed at 1080p. Medium was stretching it, and low gets me a consistent FPS."

 

????

[Sarra]

8 hours ago, Katze said:

I was referring to "how it plays" not "how it runs."

I just meant the bugs are really no worse than an Elder Scrolls game, in my experience anyway (and 4 other friends).

 

And yeah, I sold my 1070 expecting my 3070 to be here already, and am using an old 980 in the meantime... it doesn't run well...

Gotcha... That makes sense.

 

I still disagree, but... I only played Skyrim, so I can't really compare it to the other Elder Scroll games. My biggest problem is how Bethesda treats the community, and has turned the community into a cash cow. Take mods. Download free mods for Skyrim? Great. Every week, Bethesda will patch your game for you, regardless of if you want them to or not, and break your mods, in an attempt to get you to buy the same mods from Bethesda, or stop using your mods entirely. This is why Fallout 4 and Skyrim are uninstalled, and I may never play either again.

 

As for story... Cyberpunk's feels really short compared to Skyrim. The open world is tiny. I prefer driving, horses felt... Unresponsive and numb in Skyrim. Skyrim's story was impressive, but... Not really, at the same time.

 

The final kinda... 'eh' point I've got, is that bugs from 2006 are still present in the remaster of Skyrim. Glitches, exploits, and bugs have been ignored by Bethesda, while I suspect that in 10 years, Cyberpunk 2077 will be much better with update patches, bug fixes, and exploit removal. Bethesda has almost entirely laser focused their patches on breaking freeware mods, and 'encouraging' paid mods, while I don't think that CDPR will do this type of really shit thing in the future.

 

My final point is that Cyberpunk feels better to play on PC than Witcher 3. Character movement in Wither 3 always left me feeling nauseous after a few hours, and the actual task of moving was laborious and distracting, while the first person view in CP2077 is much more... Easy? Making a 90 degree turn in Witcher would result in a car like turn, which I always found annoying, and it limited the number of hours I spent in that game.

[YoMz]

2 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

It still REDEngine, upgraded version of RED3. Not a totally new engine. 

have you seen RedEngine 1 & 2 compared to RedEngine 3? clearly you haven't so you're saying that... it's a new iteration of CPDR's own in house built game engine... RedEngine 3 had Hairworks (which NVidia has thrown out the window) and runs on DX11 while RedEngine 4 has Ray Tracing and runs on DX12... it's not an upgrade, because RedEngine 4 can not run backwards compatibility into DX11, it only supports DX12...
 

4 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Doesn't matter if they use a 4k or even 8k screen, game still only render below 1080p and FPS can drop below 20. That's horrible, not to mention the frame time is shit as well. 

upscaling costs computing resources... try playing the same game set on a native 1080p panel and one on a 4k panel but upscaled from 1080p... it's a minor performance hit, but still a performance hit regardless...

 

3 hours ago, Maury Sells Wigs said:

So, you are saying the "sales numbers" of 4k televisions means people who own a ps4 are playing on those same televisions? What on earth are you blathering on about?

have you been to the PS4 forums? do you know why I specifically mentioned STRICTLY CONSOLE ONLY PLAYERS? because that's what most if not all of them play on... 
 

4 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

What kind of dumb logic is this? That's like comparing Gran Turismo 1 on PS1 vs Gran Turismo 6 on PS4. (similar game mechanic, playstyle, yada yada. Right?)
When GTA:V released on PS4 7 years ago, CDPR just started doing some rough sketch of CP2077. 

GTA V originally released for the PS3 in 2013... and nobody could max it on previous generation console as well until the PS4 came out a few months later (and nobody could max it on PS4 on release either, even the official recommended optimal settings for 1080p doesn't have all sliders set at max) *you can try it yourself and see it with your own eyes how even increasing Crowd Densitiy in GTA V from the default 80% to 100% drops your performance significantly on the PS4*

why would I bother mentioning GTA V if it didn't go through the exact same thing CP2077 is going through right now? GTA V is as bad in playability in PS3 as CP2077 is for the PS4... well would you look at that? isn't that the exact same reason people are raging right now? but unlike in 2013 where you had to wait for months to actually play it reasonably well on the PS4, there is an immediate fix to playing CP2077 because it came out after the launch of the PS5 (if you bought CP2077 on PS4, you automatically have it for the PS5 because the Playstation Store is unified)

now do you understand why GTA V matters very much in this conversation? or do you want to go through all the "optimization" patch notes since it came out in 2013 to have better performance as well?

this is not the first time a previous gen console could not play a newly released game, and it will not be the last... people acting surprised and then angry as if this is the first time this has ever happened, and then I mention GTA V and Crysis 3 and you all go haywire on angry replies LMAO

also, if you are not aware of it, GTA V IS THE POSTER CHILD FOR THE GENRE, so ofcourse if a new game comes out that has the same genre and gameplay as the flagship game, then you would compare the two to see how the new game stacks in comparison... why do you think I personally said CDPR should've never released the game on the previous gen consoles on my original post?

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

1 hour ago, YoMz said:

have you seen RedEngine 1 & 2 compared to RedEngine 3? clearly you haven't so you're saying that... it's a new iteration of CPDR's own in house built game engine... RedEngine 3 had Hairworks (which NVidia has thrown out the window) and runs on DX11 while RedEngine 4 has Ray Tracing and runs on DX12... it's not an upgrade, because RedEngine 4 can not run backwards compatibility into DX11, it only supports DX12...
 

upscaling costs computing resources... try playing the same game set on a native 1080p panel and one on a 4k panel but upscaled from 1080p... it's a minor performance hit, but still a performance hit regardless...

 

have you been to the PS4 forums? do you know why I specifically mentioned STRICTLY CONSOLE ONLY PLAYERS? because that's what most if not all of them play on... 
 

GTA V originally released for the PS3 in 2013... and nobody could max it on previous generation console as well until the PS4 came out a few months later (and nobody could max it on PS4 on release either, even the official recommended optimal settings for 1080p doesn't have all sliders set at max) *you can try it yourself and see it with your own eyes how even increasing Crowd Densitiy in GTA V from the default 80% to 100% drops your performance significantly on the PS4*

why would I bother mentioning GTA V if it didn't go through the exact same thing CP2077 is going through right now? GTA V is as bad in playability in PS3 as CP2077 is for the PS4... well would you look at that? isn't that the exact same reason people are raging right now? but unlike in 2013 where you had to wait for months to actually play it reasonably well on the PS4, there is an immediate fix to playing CP2077 because it came out after the launch of the PS5 (if you bought CP2077 on PS4, you automatically have it for the PS5 because the Playstation Store is unified)

now do you understand why GTA V matters very much in this conversation? or do you want to go through all the "optimization" patch notes since it came out in 2013 to have better performance as well?

this is not the first time a previous gen console could not play a newly released game, and it will not be the last... people acting surprised and then angry as if this is the first time this has ever happened, and then I mention GTA V and Crysis 3 and you all go haywire on angry replies LMAO

also, if you are not aware of it, GTA V IS THE POSTER CHILD FOR THE GENRE, so ofcourse if a new game comes out that has the same genre and gameplay as the flagship game, then you would compare the two to see how the new game stacks in comparison... why do you think I personally said CDPR should've never released the game on the previous gen consoles on my original post?

I think you've gone off an a tangent slightly.

 

Your basic premise was that the hate Cyberpunk has been receiving is unfair, because it is mainly from console players and they shouldn't expect to be able to play the game anyway.

 

This, in essence, is your argument. 

 

As I said before, it was a mess on pc too - but regardless, it was hyped as a current gen game in 2013, they released it on base machines, and took people's money. 

 

Therefore, those console players had every right to expect a satisfactory experience. 

 

Any hate, considering the underhand review embargos, the "not fit for purpose" experience of the finished product, and the sale at full AAA retail price, is understandable to a degree.

[xAcid9]

8 hours ago, YoMz said:

have you seen RedEngine 1 & 2 compared to RedEngine 3? clearly you haven't so you're saying that... it's a new iteration of CPDR's own in house built game engine... RedEngine 3 had Hairworks (which NVidia has thrown out the window) and runs on DX11 while RedEngine 4 has Ray Tracing and runs on DX12... it's not an upgrade, because RedEngine 4 can not run backwards compatibility into DX11, it only supports DX12...

New iteration? Like an improved version of previous engine? So you agree it's not a new engine then right?

 

It's not backward compatible to DX11 because feature like RTX/DLSS/FidelityFX is DirectX12 only exclusive. Similar to why Witcher 3 doesn't support DirectX9/Directx10 because it use thing like tessellation which not available on DX9/DX10.

 

It will be extremely stupid for CDPR to developed a completely new engine when they already have a good engine for open world RPG game which they can modify/tailor for Cyberpunk 2077.

 

8 hours ago, YoMz said:

why would I bother mentioning GTA V if it didn't go through the exact same thing CP2077 is going through right now? GTA V is as bad in playability in PS3 as CP2077 is for the PS4... well would you look at that?

Oh you meant similar situation to CP2077, yeah that i agree. Still not as bad as CP2077 current performance on base PS4. My friend experienced lock ups on his PS4 in city area.

[YoMz]

4 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

New iteration? Like an improved version of previous engine? So you agree it's not a new engine then right?

 

It's not backward compatible to DX11 because feature like RTX/DLSS/FidelityFX is DirectX12 only exclusive. Similar to why Witcher 3 doesn't support DirectX9/Directx10 because it use thing like tessellation which not available on DX9/DX10.

you said it yourself... it's not backwards or forwards compatible with each other because they are 2 different things... that's the whole basis of it being different... they're not compatible because the math and the code for each of them is vastly different...

you talking about Witcher 3 is the perfect example of why it's a different engine... if RedEngine 2 is the same as RedEngine 3 then why can't The Witcher 3 run on DX9? or did your own statement fly over your head?

CD Projekt is the publisher & distributor, CD Projekt Red is the studio under them, and RedEngine is the product name for their game engine... it's not just one product hence why you have 4 iterations of it now...

with your logic then CP2077 should run just fine on RedEngine 1 right? it's the same engine right?

[A51UK]

I have not play the game but see a lot of youtube of gameplay, the game engine look like it have many many flaws to the point that it may take years to fix the game, everything from object rendering, physics, border. 

 

It does not matter if you play the game on PS4, PS5, Xbox or PC the game should not come out like this and should be delay, It look like too much money was on the graphics not on the game.  

 

 

 

[Gazereths]

They should have just stuck to next gen consoles and PC, the PS4/XBONE are woefully underpowered now. I know for a fact mine would sound like a jet engine if I tried to run the game on it, not been cleaned or repasted for a year or so.....I bet 90% of PS4's never have been.

 

I'm not very far in and am a bit dissapointed with the performance on my 3060ti, the settings seem to make little difference to FPS, just glad I have a g-sync compatible monitor and a card capable of DLSS. All in all i'm enjoying my slow relaxed playthrough so far.

 

That being said we are in the time of ultra hype and ultra criticism, CDPR must have been expecting this backlash, at least from the old gen console players.

[PlayStation 2]

10 hours ago, YoMz said:

you said it yourself... it's not backwards or forwards compatible with each other because they are 2 different things... that's the whole basis of it being different... they're not compatible because the math and the code for each of them is vastly different...

you talking about Witcher 3 is the perfect example of why it's a different engine... if RedEngine 2 is the same as RedEngine 3 then why can't The Witcher 3 run on DX9? or did your own statement fly over your head?

CD Projekt is the publisher & distributor, CD Projekt Red is the studio under them, and RedEngine is the product name for their game engine... it's not just one product hence why you have 4 iterations of it now...

with your logic then CP2077 should run just fine on RedEngine 1 right? it's the same engine right?

Your point is tangential at best and absolutely terrible at worst. Who the hell cares if Cyberpunk runs on the next generation of the REDEngine? If the engine iteration itself is half-baked, why even go forward with finishing the game until the devs have a grip on the engine and the tools for it? That's what 343 Industries is doing with Halo Infinite and their internal tools. That's what Valve did with Half-Life: Alyx and Source 2 (although in that case, Valve had been building Source 2 for years with Dota 2 and components of it in CS:GO). 

Your argument is like arguing that RenderWare isn't RenderWare when Criterion had updated it from 3.6 to 4 back in the day. It's still the same engine, although probably with some new file formats in it and some updates to how things are handled, but at the end of the day, it's still RenderWare. The same could be said with REDEngine. Yeah, CDPR probably made some major changes to the engine for Cyberpunk 2077, but it's still REDEngine. It's not a brand new engine, it's still based off of existing groundwork. And that's fine! But if CDPR wasn't confident on their abilities to handle the engine, they should've spent more time on learning it and just swallowed the delay pill.