Just because you can run it doesn't mean you're good at it - Windows 10 ARM with x64 support now insider

[williamcll]

One of the problems Linus pointed out with Windows 10 ARM was that it could only run 32 bit software. Microsoft seems to have listened and is now testing 64 bit compatibility on their OS. Microsoft says the Lenovo Flex 5G, Galaxy Book S and Surface Pro X are currently most compatible with this build.

Quote

Microsoft this week finally released a version of Windows 10 on Arm that supports x86-64 (x64) emulation to members of the Windows Insider program. The software giant says that the preview version of Windows 10 on Arm supports any x64 app whether they come from the Microsoft Store or any other source. Members of Microsoft's Windows Insider program with PCs powered by Qualcomm's Snapdragon (or any other) ARM64/Armv8 system-on-chips (SoCs) who want to try the new version of Windows on Arm with x64 emulation should download the Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 21277 (RS_PRERELEASE) from the Dev Channel.

Microsoft has been actively trying to bring Arm SoCs to the Windows PC space for almost a decade. Initially, the company wanted to offer an alternative to Apple's iPad. It released its Windows RT operating system in 2012, but the platform has never been popular, and Microsoft essentially canned the project in 2015 by axing its own Windows RT devices. The second attempt — sometimes called always-connected personal computers (ACPS) — was unveiled by Microsoft and Qualcomm in 2017.

 

Instead of bringing an alternative to something on the market already, the two companies focused on a unique value proposition that Snapdragon SoCs can provide: long battery life and always-on connectivity. In addition to launching an x64 emulator for Armv8 SoCs, Microsoft also plans to release a number of its programs, including Microsoft Teams, compiled and optimized specifically for Arm SoCs. Furthermore, Microsoft is also expanding its App Assure program to include Windows 10 on Arm 64-bit devices to guarantee that custom software designed for particular customers would work on all Windows 10 platforms no matter which processor or SoC they use.

Source: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2020/12/10/introducing-x64-emulation-in-preview-for-windows-10-on-arm-pcs-to-the-windows-insider-program/

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-x64-emulation-windows-10-on-arm-windows-insiders

Thoughts: Now that they're fixing 64 bit they should really hurry up with getting Windows to run on Mac Devices or else lose a possible slice of customers. And maybe try to optimize the performance while they're at it (If that's even possible).

[TetraSky]

6 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Now that they're fixing 64 bit they should really hurry up with getting Windows to run on Mac Devices or else lose a possible slice of customers.

They would first need to release Win10 for ARM to the public. It's still only for manufacturers.

[Radium_Angel]

34 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Thoughts

What MS really needs to do is start a clean-slate OS for ARM systems.

Yes, backward compat is what got them here today, but all that legacy is also holding them back.

Here is fresh silicon, start fresh with the OS, application devs *will* follow, drooling for a chance to get in on the ground floor of a new field.

[Coolmaster]

I don't think Windows ARM will ever be good, or not for a long time. The only incentive for a developer to spend all that effort is if Microsoft pays them. With Apple it is fine since they make all of the hardware for their OS so developers have to make the change, and Apple has a ton of super useful tools for developers.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

34 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

They would first need to release Win10 for ARM to the public. It's still only for manufacturers.

yeah. Would probablt try it on my surface rt. THough that bairly runs 8.1rt so...

[whm1974]

23 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

What MS really needs to do is start a clean-slate OS for ARM systems.

Yes, backward compat is what got them here today, but all that legacy is also holding them back.

Here is fresh silicon, start fresh with the OS, application devs *will* follow, drooling for a chance to get in on the ground floor of a new field.

And then why would anyone use it? Remember that WinRT device were in fact a failure.

[Radium_Angel]

5 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

And then why would anyone use it? Remember that WinRT device were in fact a failure.

If memory serves, the WinRT was a super locked down low power system with virtually zero upgradebility 

[whm1974]

20 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

If memory serves, the WinRT was a super locked down low power system with virtually zero upgradebility 

That just added to the multiple reasons not to buy one.

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

That just added to the multiple reasons not to buy one.

Personally, I'd like to see what MS could accomplish with a clean slate OS. The ARM chips seem to have the power now (at least according to the RDF emanating from Apple) to properly compete with x86, I'd give it a try...

[whm1974]

6 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Personally, I'd like to see what MS could accomplish with a clean slate OS. The ARM chips seem to have the power now (at least according to the RDF emanating from Apple) to properly compete with x86, I'd give it a try...

As long as the resulting Platform is Upgradeable and Open.

[suicidalfranco]

ah just abandon it already

use those wasted resources on doing something actually useful: make a cleaner, and documented code out of Windows, without losing compatibility with legacy software.

Drop the useless mobile OS paradigms out of the desktop OS. You have a winner, for how much it hurts me to admit, focus on that and not this side project who are just lesser byproducts of your bread and butter

[Ashleyyyy]

3 hours ago, TetraSky said:

They would first need to release Win10 for ARM to the public. It's still only for manufacturers.

uuuh no? you can right now download an insider build of it and run that in a virtual machine. that's how people got it to run on the M1, in a VM. 

[TetraSky]

3 minutes ago, Ashley said:

uuuh no? you can right now download an insider build of it and run that in a virtual machine. that's how people got it to run on the M1, in a VM. 

Insider =/= release to market, which is what I meant by "release to the public".

[Doobeedoo]

x64 should be the only thing though. Also, they really could step it up now with SoC designs with AMD being how they already work together on console chip, as well as their experience from before with ARM too.

[whm1974]

Not sure why Microsoft would want to bother supporting ARM at all. The vast majority of Arm devices that people have are cell phones and tablets. Are ARM based Chrombooks even a thing now? The ones I've seen for sale are all x86-64.

[Coolmaster]

38 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Not sure why Microsoft would want to bother supporting ARM at all. The vast majority of Arm devices that people have are cell phones and tablets. Are ARM based Chrombooks even a thing now? The ones I've seen for sale are all x86-64.

Microsoft has tried to make ARM devices for laptops, like the Surface Pro X and some Samsung laptops have ARM too. The advantage in a laptop is the much longer battery life and less cooling, which makes sense for a laptop.

[whm1974]

2 minutes ago, Coolmaster said:

Microsoft has tried to make ARM devices for laptops, like the Surface Pro X and some Samsung laptops have ARM too. The advantage in a laptop is the much longer battery life and less cooling, which makes sense for a laptop.

You mean less Heat, right?

[Coolmaster]

Just now, whm1974 said:

You mean less Heat, right?

less heat -> less cooling

[whm1974]

6 minutes ago, Coolmaster said:

less heat -> less cooling

It should be less cooling required...

[Arika]

52 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Not sure why Microsoft would want to bother supporting ARM at all. The vast majority of Arm devices that people have are cell phones and tablets. Are ARM based Chrombooks even a thing now? The ones I've seen for sale are all x86-64.

why wouldn't they?

 

Apple's move to ARM is going to make ARM as a whole more viable. If they can get windows running on ARM to the point where its almost native perforamnce with 64-bit programs, then we'll start seeing more tablets and laptops with huge battery life improvements.

[whm1974]

7 minutes ago, Arika S said:

why wouldn't they?

 

Apple's move to ARM is going to make ARM as a whole more viable. If they can get windows running on ARM to the point where its almost native perforamnce with 64-bit programs, then we'll start seeing more tablets and laptops with huge battery life improvements.

Will Windows for ARM Platform be an Open one sometime in the future? I what mean by that is can End-Users change OSes if they want to? Or even upgrade the hardware if desired.

[Arika]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

Will Windows for ARM Platform be an Open one sometime in the future? I what mean by that is can End-Users change OSes if they want to? Or even upgrade the hardware if desired.

Why is that the qualifier?

 

If you want open source, go Linux.

 

Putting more effort into Windows for ARM will not change the base Windows 10. We already have laptops that can't be upgraded on x86, it's nothing new. Windows on ARM is not designed to replace a full gaming/workstation computer. It's more focused to low power devices, ie ultrabooks. I would much prefer an ARM based laptop with huge battery life over any U series CPU from either AMD or Intel.

[whm1974]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

Why is that the qualifier?

 

If you want open source, go Linux.

 

Putting more effort into Windows for ARM will not change the base Windows 10. We already have laptops that can't be upgraded on x86, it's nothing new. Windows on ARM is not designed to replace a full gaming/workstation computer. It's more focused to low power devices, ie ultrabooks. I would much prefer an ARM based laptop with huge battery life over any U series CPU from either AMD or Intel.

I don't buy such laptops. I check specs before purchasing.

[Arika]

Just now, whm1974 said:

I don't buy such laptops. I check specs before purchasing.

Then Windows for ARM is not targeted towards you. But just because it's not for you, why does that mean they shouldn't bother supporting it?

[whm1974]

12 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Then Windows for ARM is not targeted towards you. But just because it's not for you, why does that mean they shouldn't bother supporting it?

Well since WinRT Fell Flat in the Marketplace, perhaps Microsoft should work with the current ARM holder, to come up with a Standard Platform for ARM based Notebooks and Desktops.