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If im gonna enter college..

Kim Mango
By Kim Mango
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10 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

“You take a degree you’re set was sort of true in the 70’s and 80’s.  Less so in the 90’s.  By 2000 it was mostly gone.  Could still apply to undergraduate in that if you have an undergrad degree in most anything you can get a grad degree in something useful.  Grad degrees are technical degrees though.   It can be argued that a doctor is a sort of really complicated plumber.

only insofar as they're both career training. Studying to be a doctor (In the U.S.) is orders of magnitude more difficult than a plumber though and its disingenous to suggest that the process for becoming one is the same.

 

@Kim MangoIt's great that you're thinking about what it is you want to study, and finding mentors / people to look up to is a great way to discover yourself. It's not enough though to simply say "I want to do something like Linus" because Linus does a lot. He's not just dropping graphics cards and getting sweet engineering samples from Intel: He still writes some of his own scripts, so he's a writer. He's the main host of LTT and TechQuickie, so he's also an actor (I believe he's mentioned participating in theatre during highschool but I may be wrong). This is on top of whatever responsibilities he still has as CEO at LMG, which requires some business sense. Point is, you need to figure out whiich part of Linus you look up to, because that's the part that you'll need to develop in yourself.

 

The question of "what do I study" can't really be answered (by strangers on the internet and) until you've got an idea of who you want to be. others in this thread are advocating for STEM degrees or trades and while there is some wisdom in that, "liberal arts"  -- and I hate using the term because it's so imprecise -- should not go without consideration. Many see college as job training, and for them a degree in IT, engineering, or business makes sense. Others are looking for an education that they can apply broadly to many areas of their life, so they might pick something like english, or philosophy. Nothing in our current job market is guaranteed for anyone at the bachelors level. If you're set on going to college, I would say: study what you want to study in undergrad, and go to grad school. None of us know who you are or what your situation is OP, and this question can only be answered by you.

 

Get a job, read a book, and start asking yourself why you like the things you like.

 

 

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On 12/5/2020 at 7:21 AM, Kim Mango said:

If im gonna enter college a few years from now and I had to choose a course... What should I go for? When Linus himself is whom I look upto? 

Well what do you enjoy? Are you sure College is right for you? There's plenty of paths out there.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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4 hours ago, Yummychickenblue said:

  

-snip-

Even with a BA/BSc you're not guaranteed a job in the field you're after. Know people with STEM degrees that worked retail for ages after graduating before finding a job relating to their degree, some of them are still looking. 

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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Anything STEM related will land you a great paying job easily and you'll have a lot more leverage and career mobility 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

Anything STEM related will land you a great paying job easily and you'll have a lot more leverage and career mobility 

Nope it won't 

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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Posted
1 minute ago, Lord Vile said:

Nope it won't 

Source on that besides anecdotal evidence? 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, BuckGup said:

Source on that besides anecdotal evidence? 

A piece of paper gets you into an interview you actually have to be competent to make a career out of it. On top of that most jobs want more than a bachelors, most want experience which is gained at a lower paid job (which proves competence) or a masters/post grad.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

A piece of paper gets you into an interview you actually have to be competent to make a career out of it. On top of that most jobs want more than a bachelors, most want experience which is gained at a lower paid job (which proves competence) or a masters/post grad.

How does this have to do with anything I said earlier about being in the STEM field? Also you can graduate with 3+ years experience. It's not that outlandish or unheard of. I agree they want experience but that's what internships are for. A CS degree with 2 internships and various other activities with great people skills will land you a job fairly easily. I'm also talking about in the United States, I'm not sure about other countries  

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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On 12/5/2020 at 2:43 AM, handymanshandle said:

It could always be worse: you could've ended up as a politician.

Besides our obvious disdain for them, please list the bad parts of being one....  I'll wait.  :)

"Do what makes the experience better" - in regards to PCs and Life itself.

 

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On 12/5/2020 at 1:21 AM, Kim Mango said:

If im gonna enter college a few years from now and I had to choose a course... What should I go for? When Linus himself is whom I look upto? 

Unless you plan to engage in education as a profession, or enter the medical industry, than spending your time and money on a degree is a waste of both. You're better off spending those 2-4 years gaining experience in the workplace. 

Ideally, if Linus is your role-model, than you are aspiring to work for yourself, in which case the credential of a degree serves no purpose since you aren't trying to convince some 3rd party to hire you.

If you are unable to self-learn, or require specific educational assistance, there are trade schools and other institutions offering coursework to get your started for a lower cost and a lower investment of your time.

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7 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

How does this have to do with anything I said earlier about being in the STEM field? Also you can graduate with 3+ years experience. It's not that outlandish or unheard of. I agree they want experience but that's what internships are for. A CS degree with 2 internships and various other activities with great people skills will land you a job fairly easily. I'm also talking about in the United States, I'm not sure about other countries  

Graduating is not experience, University is school it is not working in the industry/field. It also depends how well you do at those internships and what they were. Being great with people doesn't help if you can't perform simple serial dilution when applying for a position in an analytics lab. 

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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I caution you against this line of assumption.

I can say from experience that many companies actively seek candidates specifically with less than 2 years of education. The HR boardrooms I sat in often tried to identify the ideal candidate for their employees, and what most potential employees attractive was never competence, or credentials, or even work history.


The prevailing logic for most large companies is as follows; if we can outsource a simple job to China or India (basically slave labor, or so low cost that calling it slave labor is not an exaggeration) than what would compel us to hire a local worker for many times the cost? In those cases, there are no credentials needed. Anyone who can sit in a chair and has 5 digits on each hand can perform that task. But you're probably not looking for one of those jobs if you're planning ahead for college...

Local positions - simple ones like Support Technicians, Server Admins, and various other IT roles - are all you can really aspire to in NA, and those pay basically nothing. The hiring committees actively seek candidates with less than 2 years of education for the following reasons.

 

1 - they are likely to be heavily in debt, and will accept low pay out of desperation.

2 - they have been conditioned by the education system to engage in additional overtime activities for 'extra credit' - they can be 'encouraged' to work vastly more then 40 hours per week under the impression that it is earning them favor.

3 - they do not question authority and are accustomed to following instructions that may or may not be strictly 'on the level'.

I am not exaggerating when I say that this very conversation took place in nearly ever boardroom I've been in. Hiring persons with any completed degree is almost excluded because those persons have an inflated salary expectation.

 

100% of jobs require 'on the job training' which lowers the value of the incoming degree holder, since they will require exactly the same training as a candidate without a degree.

And finally, because the Higher Ed industry has such a strong bias toward the political left, they produce employees who tend in that direction as well. Most entrepreneurs lean toward the small-government / low regulation / low tax political center or right. They have been increasing unhappy with the Universities providing them with woke activists instead instead of qualified candidates. Degree-holding employees are many times more likely to file HR complaints, make claims of racial injustice, and pursue litigation against their employee.

Employers have many reasons to seek degree-free employees, and this trend will only continue to increase as the years go on.

I understand this sounds grim, and probably extreme if it's the first time you're hearing this stuff... but I would suggest that you NOT take my work for it. Do your due diligence and research this. Higher Ed is presently in a state of 'managed decline' as enrollment has dropped year over year for the last 5 years, and as the rate of enrollment drops more each year, this isn't something that is going to flip. These numbers are presently the subject of many studies performed by nearly every major marketing firm - this is a critical topic. You've done well to seek advice and I wish you the best - I hope you find a path that leads to you to the highest possible fulfillment!

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38 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Besides our obvious disdain for them, please list the bad parts of being one....  I'll wait.  :)

You do make a valid point. If I had no moral compass, I'd sell my country out in an instant so I could live fat with a ton of property and a personal chauffeur driving me in a Suburban.

Check out my guide on how to scan cover art here!

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25 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

--universities are the real fascists--

These arguments only apply if the OP is looking at entry level positions, unskilled or low skill labor, which is unlikely judging by their (brief) post. Jobs may require employer specific training but that's typically "how to do use our nonstandard internal infrastructure that we've developed" not "we're going to teach you the foundations of the work as if you were a high school graduate."  A newspaper doesn't hire someone who's never taken a writing class because they that business would not be willing ot invest the time, money, and people necessary to take someone with no background in articulation to write at an acceptable standard of quality. Similarly, very few software firms would hire someone to program with just a few Algebra II credits (barring extenuating circumstances). For any job more advanced than a server monkey banging a screwdriver around, employers still want to see education.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Vile said:

Graduating is not experience, University is school it is not working in the industry/field. It also depends how well you do at those internships and what they were. Being great with people doesn't help if you can't perform simple serial dilution when applying for a position in an analytics lab. 

Again how does this have to do with anything with what I originally said? I said to go into the STEM field as there are more high paying jobs than most other fields. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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5 hours ago, Yummychickenblue said:

  

only insofar as they're both career training. Studying to be a doctor (In the U.S.) is orders of magnitude more difficult than a plumber though and its disingenous to suggest that the process for becoming one is the same.

 

@Kim MangoIt's great that you're thinking about what it is you want to study, and finding mentors / people to look up to is a great way to discover yourself. It's not enough though to simply say "I want to do something like Linus" because Linus does a lot. He's not just dropping graphics cards and getting sweet engineering samples from Intel: He still writes some of his own scripts, so he's a writer. He's the main host of LTT and TechQuickie, so he's also an actor (I believe he's mentioned participating in theatre during highschool but I may be wrong). This is on top of whatever responsibilities he still has as CEO at LMG, which requires some business sense. Point is, you need to figure out whiich part of Linus you look up to, because that's the part that you'll need to develop in yourself.

 

The question of "what do I study" can't really be answered (by strangers on the internet and) until you've got an idea of who you want to be. others in this thread are advocating for STEM degrees or trades and while there is some wisdom in that, "liberal arts"  -- and I hate using the term because it's so imprecise -- should not go without consideration. Many see college as job training, and for them a degree in IT, engineering, or business makes sense. Others are looking for an education that they can apply broadly to many areas of their life, so they might pick something like english, or philosophy. Nothing in our current job market is guaranteed for anyone at the bachelors level. If you're set on going to college, I would say: study what you want to study in undergrad, and go to grad school. None of us know who you are or what your situation is OP, and this question can only be answered by you.

 

Get a job, read a book, and start asking yourself why you like the things you like.

I agree that such would be disengenuous.  I wasn’t  intending to imply the process was similar.  I went so far as to show that it wasn’t.  It could be argued that  certain aspects of the job are surprisingly similar in that they involve diagnosing problems and can involve contained controlled liquid flow.  I was comparing post secondary technical degrees and pre-secondary technical degrees.  Post secondary technical degrees are generally ALL much more complicated than pre-secondary technical degrees.  Frequently theyre both complex and mission critical where lives are lost if the job is not done correctly.  Not infrequently theyre so very complex that not everyone can do them.   This is one of the reasons they generally (but not always) pay better.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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8 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Again how does this have to do with anything with what I originally said? I said to go into the STEM field as there are more high paying jobs than most other fields. 

"Anything STEM related will land you a great paying job easily and you'll have a lot more leverage and career mobility"

 

Anything STEM won't land you a great paying job. To get a job that pays well you don't simply walk in waving a piece of paper and get a job at 60K a year. You have to start at the bottom and put more work in to get to the higher paid positions, you can do the same at bloody McDonalds with 0 quals. Effort and competence gets you places not a piece of paper. I didn't finish my degree, looking to at some point, but I'm earning more than most of the people who did finish their degree in stem fields and I'm working in a STEM field.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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8 minutes ago, Yummychickenblue said:

I am biased and have low reading-comprehension

Those altered quotes are sort of childish aren't they.

It is illegal for employers to issue an IQ (or similar) test for potential employees. I'm not hear to sell you on the IQ standards since personally place no stock in it, but for this example, it is an easy point of reference.

Because the employer legally cannot issue a competency test, that role has functionally be outsourced to the college/university system. And for a time (until about the 1960's) this worked mostly as intended. But once the Universities realized they were dealing in the currency of perceived credibility, and not actual knowledge or competency, the system fell apart. Now there are 4-year degree holders that can't do simple addition and subtraction. The businesses - both large and small - that have previously used the degree as a metric for competency, have charted this. They know that a degree holding candidate performs at a lower level than their degree-free counterparts. This isn't in dispute.

There are exceptions such as Education, Law, and Medicine, but even those are on their way to divorcing the university system. As we speak, private hospitals are opening up their own classrooms so that the people can enroll for studies directly with the hospitals (who have a vested interest in producing people who can keep their patients alive) and complete programs and internships in house - cutting out the universities completely, and reducing costs along the way. People don't start their work life 4 years later and with 40-80 thousand USD in debt.

Universities are a sinking ship. They are like bad stock - some people already bought it, and they think that degree means something. But rather than cut their loses and move on, they are trying desperately to convince more people to buy into their failed project, in the hopes that it will mitigate some of their loses. At best, it's selfish and a but arrogant - at worst, in intellectually bankrupt and fraud.

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5 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Those altered quotes are sort of childish aren't they.

It is illegal for employers to issue an IQ (or similar) test for potential employees. I'm not hear to sell you on the IQ standards since personally place no stock in it, but for this example, it is an easy point of reference.

Because the employer legally cannot issue a competency test, that role has functionally be outsourced to the college/university system. And for a time (until about the 1960's) this worked mostly as intended. But once the Universities realized they were dealing in the currency of perceived credibility, and not actual knowledge or competency, the system fell apart. Now there are 4-year degree holders that can't do simple addition and subtraction. The businesses - both large and small - that have previously used the degree as a metric for competency, have charted this. They know that a degree holding candidate performs at a lower level than their degree-free counterparts. This isn't in dispute.

There are exceptions such as Education, Law, and Medicine, but even those are on their way to divorcing the university system. As we speak, private hospitals are opening up their own classrooms so that the people can enroll for studies directly with the hospitals (who have a vested interest in producing people who can keep their patients alive) and complete programs and internships in house - cutting out the universities completely, and reducing costs along the way. People don't start their work life 4 years later and with 40-80 thousand USD in debt.

Universities are a sinking ship. They are like bad stock - some people already bought it, and they think that degree means something. But rather than cut their loses and move on, they are trying desperately to convince more people to buy into their failed project, in the hopes that it will mitigate some of their loses. At best, it's selfish and a but arrogant - at worst, in intellectually bankrupt and fraud.

Dude you're about 100000% wrong here. For example in my unfinished degree (chemistry) there's a lot of stuff you learn that just couldn't be done on the job. Not only would it be dangerous but it would mean you're essentially spending years training someone. You have to attend law school to take the bar and how on earth would you trust a syrgeion who hasn't been to medical school? 

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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17 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

"Anything STEM related will land you a great paying job easily and you'll have a lot more leverage and career mobility"

 

Anything STEM won't land you a great paying job. To get a job that pays well you don't simply walk in waving a piece of paper and get a job at 60K a year. You have to start at the bottom and put more work in to get to the higher paid positions, you can do the same at bloody McDonalds with 0 quals. Effort and competence gets you places not a piece of paper. I didn't finish my degree, looking to at some point, but I'm earning more than most of the people who did finish their degree in stem fields and I'm working in a STEM field.

My dad had a saying there were many types of degrees, one of which was the PDGWD which is completely unavailable from educational institutions.  PDGWD Is “pretty damn good at what you do”. It’s also the only one that actually matters. 

All a degree does is provide basic training and makes acquiring a PDGWD more likely. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Just now, Bombastinator said:

My dad had a saying there were many types of degrees, one of which was the PDGWD which is completely unavailable from educational institutions.  PDGWD Is “pretty damn good at what you do”

All a degree does is provide basic training and makes acquiring a PDGWD more likely. 

There are some things where it's basically required though. For example medicine, you can't really become a surgeon without formal training from a medical school. In a lot of labs having someone who hasn't spent the time learning why you don't put acetone in the waste jug with hydrogen peroxide.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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7 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Dude you're about 100000% wrong here. For example in my unfinished degree (chemistry) there's a lot of stuff you learn that just couldn't be done on the job. Not only would it be dangerous but it would mean you're essentially spending years training someone. 

Remember what I said about degree holders and basic math? 100000% huh?

Sorry, that was uncalled for - but it was low hanging fruit and I'm human so...

 

I'm glad you learned things in your Chem classes. Seriously I'm not implying that the act of learning is somehow not valuable. I am saying that the system currently in place is both dated, and dishonest. Learning will always be an essential part of growing up and preparing for the workforce.

In an ideal world, almost everything that is presently taught in "higher education" would be covered during compulsory education (K-12). Right now, K-12 is basically taxpayer funded day care. Colleges will (not should... will) be replaced by technical programs and on-the-job training. But at a higher base-line than we have now since Colleges and Universities have lowered the bar.

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6 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Remember what I said about degree holders and basic math? 100000% huh?

Well I'm not a degree holder sooo...

Quote

 

I'm glad you learned things in your Chem classes. Seriously I'm not implying that the act of learning is somehow not valuable. I am saying that the system currently in place is both dated, and dishonest. Learning will always be an essential part of growing up and preparing for the workforce.

No it's not, there are some jobs you have to go into specialised education and spend the time studying to do the job. Not only because you have to learn all the skills of that job but you have to learn so much around it because of how everything links in or else you will cock up and cocking up can be dangerous and/or expensive.

Quote

In an ideal world, almost everything that is presently taught in "higher education" would be covered during compulsory education (K-12). Right now, K-12 is basically taxpayer funded day care. Colleges will (not should... will) be replaced by technical programs and on-the-job training. But at a higher base-line than we have now since Colleges and Universities have lowered the bar.

No it wouldn't and no it shouldn't. Would you like to have a heart transplant performed by someone "learning on the job" or take medication made by someone "learning on the job"? No of course not because that's retarded.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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6 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

There are some things where it's basically required though. For example medicine, you can't really become a surgeon without formal training from a medical school. In a lot of labs having someone who hasn't spent the time learning why you don't put acetone in the waste jug with hydrogen peroxide.

Such a person would not earn a PDGWD.  They’d earn a funeral.  Testament to the  “mission critical” statement.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Such a person would not earn a PDGWD.  They’d earn a funeral.  Testament to the  “mission critical” statement.

Just depends, the are some things you legitimately have to go to higher education for. Others you don't and tbh there are far too many mickey mouse degrees around now.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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