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Whats your opinion on a highly efficient F@H Cloud folding service?

theknystar
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Hello boys and girls. I convinced some people at my company to start a cloud folding service on the side if there is a demand for it. We have the capability to scale up to do a +100 GPU farm if we see big demand for it in the future. (Our company do not rely on this income, this is just a side adventure and also trying to increase F@H overall PPD)

If there is demand for it we can allow people to rent out even multiple 3080 GPUs which would be specifically tailored to do ONLY folding with the best efficiency possbile.
First of all this service would be in good faith and the GPUs would only do F@H even if they are not rented. So no idle. However if there is no demand and the business is not self sustainable at least we will have to shutdown the initiative.

theoretically we looking at 1x3080 175$/m which includes electricity+maintenance cost as well and thats only because it would only do F@H. (its about daily ~5.5m PPD so a monthly 170m PPD) The folding PPD could be redirected to your folding name as well (or you would be able to get all of the Curecoin crypto which would be rewarded for it as well but its not proftitable and thats not the goal necessarily either.)

Please let me know about your opinions / ideas or if you would be interested in such service. 

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Side question, would you be willing to sell those GPUs instead?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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It would make sense if the points were for the buyers account. Besides that I don't see so much of a point, as folding is usually kinda personal. It's not like mining I guess; while I might be comfortable buying compute power for mining bitcoin (nicehash for example), I'd much rather actually own hardware for folding

Either @piratemonkey or quote me when responding to me. I won't see otherwise

Put a reaction on my post if I helped

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What I say is from experience and the internet, and may not be 100% correct

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Just now, BuckGup said:

Side question, would you be willing to sell those GPUs instead?

No. Our company have connection to order 30seres even on bulk with decent shipping time. flipping these would be irrelevant to our company revenue

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18 minutes ago, piratemonkey said:

It would make sense if the points were for the buyers account. Besides that I don't see so much of a point, as folding is usually kinda personal. It's not like mining I guess; while I might be comfortable buying compute power for mining bitcoin (nicehash for example), I'd much rather actually own hardware for folding

Yup, redirecting that folding PPD to your folding name is certainly an option as well. Edited the topic including it

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9 minutes ago, theknystar said:

No. Our company have connection to order 30seres even on bulk with decent shipping time. flipping these would be irrelevant to our company revenue

I'm not asking to sell all of them just like 4-10 of them

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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5 hours ago, theknystar said:

theoretically we looking at 1x3080 175$/m which includes electricity+maintenance cost as well and thats only because it would only do F@H.

That pricing is ridiculous.

 

$175/month = $2100/year.

Since you mentioned you have a direct supplier you are buying hundreds of RTX3080 cards from I'm assuming you're getting MSRP or close to it. $700 for the card.

Electricity let's say $0.15/kWh. $0.15 * 350W TDP * 24 hours = $1.26 per day, or $460/year.

For someone to buy the card and electricity costs to run it 24/7 for an entire year would cost $1160. Even if people can't get cards for MSRP and they pay $1000 to a scalper for an RTX3080 with electricity costs after a year they would still be hundreds of dollars better off than buying services from you.

 

Not only is it significantly cheaper to just buy the graphics card and pay for the electricity, but if you buy it yourself you can at least use it for gaming whenever you want or any other tasks that you need a graphics card for (3D rendering, etc), and at the end of the year you have a graphics card that you can sell or keep using. Cost in the 2nd year drops even more as you have already paid for the card and you just need to pay the ongoing electricity costs.

 

5 hours ago, theknystar said:

(or you would be able to get all of the Curecoin crypto which would be rewarded for it as well but its not proftitable and thats not the goal necessarily either.)

Producing 5.5M PPD you could earn approximately $30/month with Curecoin current prices.

If you were really inclined to do so I'm sure it would be possible to find people folding for Curecoin and offer them slightly above the Curecoin rate to fold for you instead. At current Curecoin prices for $175/month you could probably get around 30M PPD.

 

 

If you only care about the F@H points then spend $2100 and buy two RTX3080s, power limit them to 250W and run them 24/7 for a year. You'll earn twice as many points and not only will it be cheaper but at the end of the year you'll still have two RTX3080s which you could continue to use for folding or sell to recoup some of the money you spent.

 

If you just want to pay $175 a month to help medical research then donate it to a good research charity organisation. F@H also accepts tax deductible donations on their website if you want to donate directly to support F@H.

CPU: Intel i7 6700k  | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x16GB 3000MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Arctic Freezer 34 eSports | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB + Crucial MX500 2TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450

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Thank you for your input and i appreciate you letting us talk about it.


Since its a really DYI community, its obviously worth to buy the hardware and fold on it yourself especially with 1-2 card. However you have to deal with noise, heat (after 2-3 card you have a 1kW/h heater essentially), hardware malfunctioning, and you also need the space.

 

Server renting considered expensive compared to just buying the hardware no matter what company or service you looking at but you also forget important things like that the servers cooled and maintenanced as well not to mention it will need expensive distributors for electricity, protection, etc. Its not that easy to run a bigger operation as you calcualte it. (just imagine you need to turn on your AC because your PC is generating too much heat. im folding for 5 years now and i experienced it at first hand, you will have an AC problem because of the extended use. [What a surprise lol])
 

Sure. with full rent your math is "right" but these things should not be calculated with full rentals ever and other renting services would also let that rig idle. You also missed from your calclaution what i listed above.

Crypto folders are not that greedy as you suggesting. Just give 40$ to somebody since he would only get 30$ with curecoin... they dealing with the problems what i listed and also crypto folding have not been profitable for at least 2 years now so they are just as much donating to the cause as anybody else. Good luck "renting a rig" from them. (not trying to be a crypto shill, you just brought up a wrong exapmle with it)

Yep, donating to F@H directly is also an option, cant argue.

Maybe my idea is too naiv and optimistic, but with good faith i was able to get capital interest. If there are no demand for such service then it wont exist. 

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On 11/29/2020 at 9:21 PM, theknystar said:

theoretically we looking at 1x3080 175$/m which includes electricity+maintenance cost as well and thats only because it would only do F@H. (its about daily ~5.5m PPD so a monthly 170m PPD)

Hi theknystar!

 

I find this interesting since electricity costs are so expensive here, it's actually cheaper to rent GPU power on vast.ai than powering an own GPU, let alone wearing and maintenance.

Two inputs from me: I think the sweet spot would be around 0.60 USD / MPPD, so I find it too expensive. Even under my circumstances, I'd be cheaper with an own card and have the additional benefit to game with it. Second thing is: 175$/m is a steep donation, even for F@H enthusiasts. A fraction of this would be fine for me.

TBH, I like the idea of renting instances, giving me the freedom to do whatever I want. I'm currently working on machine learning, so I might need the GPU horse power from time to time for my own project.

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Hi, thanks for your input! 

Maybe a shorter 15day contract for 87.5$ sounds more reasonable as an option? Yep, Germany and other palces have like 0.3c kW/h pricing. its expensive at some places to just fold.
FYI vast.ai is actually more expensive for a month than what i suggested here so im not sure why you saying thats cheaper and this is more expensive. (hence you can use that rig for other things as well)  I also stated at the other comment that its better value just buying your own hardware but thats a drawback for any renting service.
We do not want to "break in" to the general cloud renting. You can find many many shorter renting instance services which are great for that and we do not want to be their competition on it

We only looking to help F@H overall PPD and not for "pure profit". Even if its not profitable but only self sustainable we are fine.
We found that there is no cheap way to rent cards to do only F@H efficiently and if you want to rent out a multigpu setup to do folding they starting to get really messy.

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On 11/29/2020 at 9:21 PM, theknystar said:

Hello boys and girls. I convinced some people at my company to start a cloud folding service on the side if there is a demand for it. We have the capability to scale up to do a +100 GPU farm if we see big demand for it in the future. (Our company do not rely on this income, this is just a side adventure and also trying to increase F@H overall PPD)

If there is demand for it we can allow people to rent out even multiple 3080 GPUs which would be specifically tailored to do ONLY folding with the best efficiency possbile.
First of all this service would be in good faith and the GPUs would only do F@H even if they are not rented. So no idle. However if there is no demand and the business is not self sustainable at least we will have to shutdown the initiative.

theoretically we looking at 1x3080 175$/m which includes electricity+maintenance cost as well and thats only because it would only do F@H. (its about daily ~5.5m PPD so a monthly 170m PPD) The folding PPD could be redirected to your folding name as well (or you would be able to get all of the Curecoin crypto which would be rewarded for it as well but its not proftitable and thats not the goal necessarily either.)

Please let me know about your opinions / ideas or if you would be interested in such service. 

I guess you don't understand the MAIN goal of F@H.

It was created to use the unused Computing performance that is idling and not put to work.

 

To explain it to you, i'm a web-developer who runs now a 9600KF and a RTX 2080, I do play games sometimes but the fact that I'm not playing much, means that my PC runs 80% idle or runs a IDE aka Atom Editor (VS Code for others).

This doesn't use my GPU or CPU at all, by running F@H i donate my performance for a good cause and EXACTLY this was the idea behind F@H. Not a renting platform or anything to earn money with that you're trying to do.

 

You mentioned that you need to cool the hardware and maintain temps... I put a fan behind my desk to blow the hot air into my room, i also lowered my heater because my PC is pulling 500W from the wall. Already found a balance, lowered the heater by 0.7 level it was on 3 now its on 2.3 + my PC running since like 15h and Folding.)

Intel NUC 13 | i3 1315U | 2x 8GB 3600/CL16

 

 

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Thanks for your opinion.

If you do not see a market nor demand for this service your opinion is noted without any problem however dont try to spin a negative narrative behind the idea because i specifically listed many reasons why the whole operation would be created with good faith in mind.

Capitalism brings efficiency either you like it or not. I guess you want less overall PPD because "evil people" like me are trying to do something positive. it was a very clever marketing to get people to fold on an idle PC. You cant tell people "hey can you run this thing 0-24? thanks". Nobody told you that idle folding is the only way to help the project... you can fold 0-24 as well with dedicated rigs and F@H was never against that. The project itself obviously benefiting greatly from efficient dedicated rigs.

I can explain it to you as well, i have been folding with a dedicated rig for years now.

Just because something was invented with a purpose that doesnt mean it will be used for that (most famous examples, bubble wrap, coca cola).

I can twist your words as well so you have a negative narrative here just for fun...You saying hospital workers are doing something great and noble yet shame on them for taking a salary.

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  • 3 months later...
Posted

@theknystar

Curious how your project was going?

I've wondered if people would be interested in adopting a Folder, give them names, let patrons see the stats for their pet-GPU online.  Maybe even a live camfeed? With RGBs rigged up to a tickler for the RGB lights that they could activate?

Daily email or text with the stats their Folder generated.

The concept would be to lower the cost barrier of participation, a GPU could have say, 20 patrons at $?/mo.

Just another concept to help the cause.

Thinking your project could test concepts like this and perhaps, find a concept that people are attracted to.  

 

 

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