So....Asus TUF or wait for other models?

[Exeon]

I'm glad I listened to the advice here and didn't buy the first batches of cards.

It's becoming clear to me that the ASUS TUF model is becoming a clear winner among AIB's, giving some of the best performance, cooling and price.

With the issues the cheaper power capacitors bring, the TUF having 6 MLCC's, over the FE which has 2 has pushed the TUF's even more.

 

I can actually pre-order it locally for a mere 719€, It's more of a "guaranteed price" thing to be honest, but at that price it's a steal in my opinion.

 

However, there are 2 other cards that I'm interested in, the EVGA FTW model, and the ASUS STRIX (seeing how well they did on the TUF)

Both come at a hefty premium of 100-150€ extra, I very much doubt I can get anything out of these cards that will be worth the premium.

 

However there are no reviews or teardowns out there (Not sure why, I've seen several reviewers that have one?)

 

So should I still hold off on a preorder(with the chance the price goes up) Or should I wait?

[Haak]

The Tuf  seems to be a great buy if you can get it close to MSPR. With the Tuf at MSRP it is unlikely that the other cards with be a better value. However if you care more about oc than value, the discussion can change somewhat. 

 

I do believe the OCer derbauer have a tear down video of the strix out. It seems good, but you are paying a lot for it = not worth it for most people.

 

Put in an preorder from a reputable retailer with a good return policy. This was you can but now at MSRP and still wait to see what AMD brings. 

 

Can you confirm the power capacitors used on the Tuf? Retailers and reviews/asus have different pictures on their site (i created a separate topic for this) If the TUF uses 6 of the "good caps" as some pictures show id say you would be a fool to buy anything else if you are not a serious OCer.

 

 

[Moonzy]

I would wait to see what Nvidia has to say as that is just speculation, not confirmation.

 

I wouldn't buy a card until this issue is resolved

[Shlouski]

 

18 minutes ago, Exeon said:

With the issues the cheaper power capacitors bring

 

You have conclusive proof that this is what is causing the issue, if so I would like to see it.

 

Also, many 3000 series reviewer cards and cards used in promotion material seem to have the 6 POSCAPs, but I've watched many unboxings and see mostly 5 POSCAPs 1 MLCCs and 4 POSCAPs 2 MLCCs cards.

 

The msi ventus I ordered is one on the cards that is shown to have 6 POSCAPs when looking at pictures of it, but I haven't seen one in an unboxing, so just the msi ventus has at least 3 different power delivery configurations, its likely other AIB's do also, so I guess it another lottery finding out what power delivery you have.

 

Its possible that all models are now at least 5 POSCAPs 1 MLCCs

 

Msi ventus before

 

 

 

Msi Ventus retail unboxed

 

 

 

 

[Exeon]

6 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

You have conclusive proof that this is what is causing the issue, if so I would like to see it.

 

Also, many 3000 series reviewer cards and cards used in promotion material seem to have the 6 POSCAPs, but I've watched many unboxings and see mostly 5 POSCAPs 1 MLCCs and 4 POSCAPs 2 MLCCs cards.

 

The msi ventus I ordered is one on the cards that is shown to have 6 POSCAPs when looking at pictures of it, but I haven't seen one in an unboxing, so just the msi ventus has at least 3 different power delivery configurations, its likely other AIB's do also, so I guess it another lottery finding out what power delivery you have.

 

Its possible that all models are now at least 5 POSCAPs 1 MLCCs

 

 

 

Full teardown, around the 5 minute mark you can see the 6 MLCC's,

About the proof, I can't say it's conclusive, but seeing as there are no reports on the FE or Asus models having the issue, and this being the only noticable difference it's pretty hard to thing it's a coincidence, for more info there is the following video:

 

 

[Shlouski]

13 minutes ago, Exeon said:

About the proof, I can't say it's conclusive

 

Yeah I've watched both. 

 

People having been testing trying to confirm that this is the cause of the issue, but so far no results point to this being the reason for the issue, lets hope this isnt it and instead something simple.

 

I suspect that most of the cards out in the wild (including AIB models) are 4 POSCAPs 2 MLCCs or 5 POSCAPs 1 MLCCs, so if this is the issue hopefully its limited to the POSCAPs only models, and hopefully they aren't making any more.

[Exeon]

3 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

 

Yeah I've watched both, lets hope this is not the issue.

 

I suspect that most of the cards out in the wild (including AIB models) are 4 POSCAPs 2 MLCCs or 5 POSCAPs 1 MLCCs, so if this is the issue hopefully its limited to the POSCAPs only models, and hopefully they aren't making any more.

I suspect they will most likely just tune down the afterburner programs and cap them rather than alter the hardware on them.

Boost clocks are never guaranteed, base clocks are, since those aren't the issue everyone who bought one and has issues will most likely recieve less of the potential boost clock as a result.

 

I'm not sure how much it'll affect performance (seeing as OC benchmarks show little to no gain) however it's still pretty bad.

[Shlouski]

I have an Msi Ventus 3090 on its way.

 

On the product page it shows this pic

 

But all the unboxing videos I've seen show 4 POSCAPs 2 MLCCs, so I hope mine is also.

 

 

[Exeon]

2 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

I have an Msi Ventus 3090 on its way.

 

On the product page it shows this pic

 

But all the unboxing videos I've seen show 4 POSCAPs 2 MLCCs, so I hope mine is also.

 

I think the first image you linked is the 3080

On their page they have 2 MLCC's:

 

https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-RTX-3090-VENTUS-3X-24G-OC/Gallery

 

[Shlouski]

2 minutes ago, Exeon said:

I think the first image you linked is the 3080

 

Its possible the site I purchased from is using the wrong image I guess: https://www.pccomponentes.com/msi-geforce-rtx-3090-ventus-3x-oc-24gb-gddr6x

[Exeon]

15 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

 

Its possible the site I purchased from is using the wrong image I guess: https://www.pccomponentes.com/msi-geforce-rtx-3090-ventus-3x-oc-24gb-gddr6x

Funny, i've bought from them before (I lived in Spain for quite a while)

Not the first time I've seen them mess up images.

I'm pretty sure the official site will have the correct images, though I can't say for sure if the 3090 will have similar issues or not.

[Shlouski]

2 minutes ago, Exeon said:

Funny, i've bought from them before (I lived in Spain for quite a while)

 

Thats cool where abouts?

 

2 minutes ago, Exeon said:

Not the first time I've seen them mess up images

 

Yeah, but they are really reliable with shipping, even to me in Tenerife and it hard to get stuff imported to here because of not being in the EU tax, IGIC instead of Spain IVA.

 

6 minutes ago, Exeon said:

I can't say for sure if the 3090 will have similar issues or not

 

Sure hope not, the 3090 FE is the same as the 3090 ventus 4 POSCAPs 2 MLCCs, so hopefully its ok.

 

[RejZoR]

Be aware that marketing pictures deviate from real products. For example, I had interest in Inno3D RTX 3080 iChill X4 model which on marketing photos (which I believe are 3D renders) has 6 solid black SMD's where I've seen 2 variations of real cards in the wild. One guy from what looked like Singapore had 5 black SMD's and 1 cluster of yellow ceramics. Then I watched another video where it was official Inno3D marketing video I believe and the card had 4 black SMD's and 2 clusters of yellow ceramics in the middle. So, until you actually get the card you won't actually know the configuration on the back of GPU. Technically, it seems 6 blacks is bad and 5x1 config is already suppose to be enough. 4x2 is with plenty of reserve and 6x0 yellow ceramics is the best one can do. But it sucks that we now have to think about this. I mean, when was the last time anyone gave a damn about components on the back of the GPU? And I mean casual users, not hardcore overclockers who know they'll need something specific for insane overclock. I never cared up till this point. I just looked at the construction of cooler and fans. And the looks coz I don't like too flashy things. And that was it. And now we have to make PhD in electronics to buy a GPU that won't shit itself when it'll boost too high.

[Deli]

Tech Yes City's Asus Tuf OC 3080 also has crashes when playing Fortnite. I think it's too early to make any conclusion.

[Bad5ector]

Pretty sure I saw this posted here, but it looks like EVGA was aware of this and corrected before shipping to retail. Reviewers however weren't so lucky as they got pre-retail samples:

 

https://forums.evga.com/Message-about-EVGA-GeForce-RTX-3080-POSCAPs-m3095238.aspx

[FaxedForward]

Hardware Unboxed is confirming that they are seeing the crash issue on ASUS and FE cards as well. Increasingly looking like there may be a driver or other issue as well.

 

 

[Exeon]

2 hours ago, FaxedForward said:

Hardware Unboxed is confirming that they are seeing the crash issue on ASUS and FE cards as well. Increasingly looking like there may be a driver or other issue as well.

 

 

Yea appearently, which doesn't really impact my descision to buy since they still used better materials.

If all this can be fixed with a driver update then great for NVIDIA

[FaxedForward]

MLCC aren’t necessarily better materials, POSCAPs are actually more expensive. They just each have different purposes. There have been a few electrical engineers confirming on Reddit that a mix of both is actually ideal and that the 2x MLCC/4x POSCAP combination is probably the best from a design perspective. The major issues seem to surround the cards with 100% POSCAP like Zotac.

[Spetz]

1 hour ago, FaxedForward said:

MLCC aren’t necessarily better materials, POSCAPs are actually more expensive. They just each have different purposes. There have been a few electrical engineers confirming on Reddit that a mix of both is actually ideal and that the 2x MLCC/4x POSCAP combination is probably the best from a design perspective. The major issues seem to surround the cards with 100% POSCAP like Zotac.

This is correct.  In simple terms, small capacitors are used for decoupling/smoothing high frequency signals because they can discharge fast enough to follow the signal.  Large capacitors are used for decoupling/smoothing lower frequency signals because they can accommodate enough charge to smooth the waveform.

 

Depending on time and engineering expertise, they may have not done calculations and enough experimentation to determine the optimum mix of capacitors.

 

-EE Ph.D.

[Exeon]

Allright, since the FE model is showing the same issues I don't believe that it's solely a hardware issue.

 

Since this model appears to have a good price/performance over other AIB's I decided to pre-order it

Other AIB's cost at least 80€ more from the official NVDIA retailers here, while the TUF is 719€

Strix and FTW are 160€ more, I very much doubt I can get any performance out of it.

 

I'm not sure when I'll get the card, but I'm not in a hurry, I'd rather be sure about the price.