Programming 101

[AzzaNezz]

For experienced developers,upcoming one and future ones.

 

What would be your best tips about programming in general.

I mean tips like what kind of setup to use,keyboards and languages in general.

What would you say is the best branch(i belieave its like this word) would be to go after?

What languages should a new coder approach first?

How is the lifestyle and routine of a coder?

How long till a person is good enough so it cant start working from home or freelance?

 

Anything you think it would be a good tip or reccomendation please post below.

If there is topic like this already sorry

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

8 minutes ago, AzzaNezz said:

For experienced developers,upcoming one and future ones.

 

What would be your best tips about programming in general.

I mean tips like what kind of setup to use,keyboards and languages in general.

What would you say is the best branch(i belieave its like this word) would be to go after?

What languages should a new coder approach first?

How is the lifestyle and routine of a coder?

How long till a person is good enough so it cant start working from home or freelance?

 

Anything you think it would be a good tip or reccomendation please post below.

If there is topic like this already sorry

 

I would personally give Python a go as your first language. It was the language I used in my first Computing Science course in University. It's a language that's literally made to be as readable as any formal written language. So it won't be like other languages such as C where it's very cryptic. Python is also one of the most popular and widely used languages out there so it has that going for it as well.

 

Finally, when you're learning, remember "code to learn not learn to code". The best way to learn is to just start writing code, just start writing little programs. 

[OddOod]

Tips: You can't "learn to code", you have to have a project that you work towards. Also, test early test often.
Hardware: use whatever you have and is comfortable
Language: Python is great for ease of reading and learning and it's a REPL language which is nice. Javascript is forgiving. C# and Java are good if you're gonna look for a job
Lifestyle/routines vary as much with coding as any other job/hobby, anyone who says different is just gatekeeping
I honestly think that if you have taken CS101/102 and have a reasonable grasp of how pseudocode works, you should be able to get an internship, which I would highly recommend, because in an internship they are gonna teach you everything you need to know while also paying you
 

[AzzaNezz]

7 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

I would personally give Python a go as your first language. It was the language I used in my first Computing Science course in University. It's a language that's literally made to be as readable as any formal written language. So it won't be like other languages such as C where it's very cryptic. Python is also one of the most popular and widely used languages out there so it has that going for it as well.

 

Finally, when you're learning, remember "code to learn not learn to code". The best way to learn is to just start writing code, just start writing little programs. 

Thank you for your input,so what is your opinion on like Udemy video learning is that anygood?

[shadow_ray]

14 minutes ago, OddOod said:

*snip*
I honestly think that if you have taken CS101/102 and have a reasonable grasp of how pseudocode works, you should be able to get an internship, which I would highly recommend, because in an internship they are gonna teach you everything you need to know while also paying you
 

 

what?

where and for how much?

and doing what?

I can't see how a beginner could create value for a company. For me.. it feels like a long term risky investment. It might worth it for bigger companies tough.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

For experienced developers,upcoming one and future ones.

 

What would be your best tips about programming in general.

Get a 4 year Bachelor's degree. It helps a lot.
Whilst doing that, teach yourself everything & just make stuff.

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

I mean tips like what kind of setup to use,keyboards and languages in general.

I like mechanical keyboards. If you want to type really fast & have less carpal tunnel, learn the DVORAK layouts. Some are made for programmers.
English is a must.

Doing 1 class on Assembly will help with any of your functional programming. If you do web development, do HTML, CSS, Javascript & learn SQL.

Languages really depend on what you want to do. Java is good for android apps, C++ is good for games, COBALT is good for finance software, Python is good for data stuff as just a few examples.

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

What would you say is the best branch(i belieave its like this word) would be to go after?

What you like doing. Or whatever does money. Websites, finance software, data science.

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

What languages should a new coder approach first?

Any functional language. Then pick "Do I want to make websites, or programs" and then go from there.

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

How is the lifestyle and routine of a coder?

Depends. In a large project I worked on it went:
"Read design documents, plan code with diagrams & psuedo code, code thing, test thing, push thing."

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

How long till a person is good enough so it cant start working from home or freelance?

When they decide to start. There's no bell that says "Ting, leveled up! You can now sell programs."

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

Anything you think it would be a good tip or reccomendation please post below.

Get a degree and/or do a project. Don't worry about doing it right. Just do it. You'll figure something out. int, if & for are used in 99%~100% of all programs.

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

If there is topic like this already sorry

If we stopped all these posts, there wouldn't be any threads.

[LtStaffel]

3 hours ago, fpo said:

Doing 1 class on Assembly will help with any of your functional programming.

Any functional language.

Why functional?

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, LtStaffel said:

Why functional?

Because formative isn’t really programming in the sense people think. 

[LtStaffel]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

Because formative isn’t really programming in the sense people think. 

I thought you meant functional vs object-oriented. OOP is much easier for a new person to understand than functional which is very mathematical, and lots of people dislike math.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, LtStaffel said:

I thought you meant functional vs object-oriented. OOP is much easier for a new person to understand than functional which is very mathematical, and lots of people dislike math.

Ahh yeah sorry. I meant a language that does things. I forget the term for that.

[Yatharth Shah]

I'll be quoting Nike, but "Just Do It". That's it. I've been programming for about 4 years, still look for beginner courses first. For setups, use whatever is the right mix of comfort and keeping you from fatigue. Many keyboards I've used cause fatigue. Also, try to get something to keep your back straight.

[Unimportant]

15 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

What would you say is the best branch(i belieave its like this word) would be to go after?

I'd say the low level stuff.

 

There's an abundance of ever more abstract languages, further and further removed from the hardware, and the accompanying programmers who know less and less about how things work under the hood.

 

That's nice and all but what I see regularly:

• Their abstract machine fails in some way or the other -> they're clueless about what to do next.
• Less and less people in the fields that actually design and build the underlying systems these languages run on.

And as a result, those who do have this knowledge can eat all the other's lunch.

[straight_stewie]

You do not learn programming by learning a language. You do, however, learn a language by learning programming.

[Franck]

On 9/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, AzzaNezz said:

What would be your best tips about programming in general.

1 - Improve logic thinking, Not language knowledge.

2 - comfortable keyboard, depend on you hand size with numpad. Personally i loved the Microsoft 600 keyboard for smooth keypress and longevity. I rocked 2 of them pass 5 year mark typing everyday programming so heavy use.

3 - ergonomic chair, long hours are a strain on your back. a good chair last long. Right now i am still on my 8-9 years old tempur pedic chair.

4 - good arm rest and position of the elbow and hand

5 - Language learn a C language syntax and you will pick up any other language VERY VERY quickly

 

On 9/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, AzzaNezz said:

What would you say is the best branch(i belieave its like this word) would be to go after?

This is a regional situation. Although generally speaking any web development is as high as ever pretty much everywhere right now.

 

On 9/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, AzzaNezz said:

What languages should a new coder approach first?

You should go with structured language to learn good habits and thinking methodology. Any C based language is perfect. C++, C# or Java.

 

On 9/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, AzzaNezz said:

How is the lifestyle and routine of a coder?

I all depends i worked at a large team where most of code where night owl preferring shift of 1pm to 9pm but personally i prefer the 8 to 5 with variable hours so i could do 6 to 3 and have all afternoon off. If you land a job in a production environment you will work will live code that affect people right now. You will have a faster train of life. More mission critical work more stress if you are a stressed person but more rewarding personally and rare case / edge case scenario are a casual tuesday. While you might work for a large bank company with fix hour working on fixing reports and queries all day with little to no direct impact with release of code every months that has been tested and have no stress at all. Lots of different kind of jobs

 

On 9/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, AzzaNezz said:

How long till a person is good enough so it cant start working from home or freelance?

For web development i would say you can start doing small contract with static page within a month if you don't get lazy on learning.

For full blown desktop application it is possible to learn enough for a simple solid language like Java or C# to be ready to go on small project after 6 months.

In a workplace environment if you are very lucky with no diploma to land a job with 6 months personal experience and you have a intermediate or senior dev

above you that is willing to take time to teach and explain to you real case scenarios, solutions, actual code tricks you will grow at an enormous speed.

 

[igormp]

On 9/12/2020 at 5:19 PM, AzzaNezz said:

For experienced developers,upcoming one and future ones.

 

What would be your best tips about programming in general.

Starting coding, do leetcode exercises, do random projects and write/tweet about them, even if they're really silly in your opinion, someone might find it cool.

Quote

I mean tips like what kind of setup to use,keyboards and languages in general.

Really irrelevant and way too personal. I like low profile membrane keyboards, some people prefer mechs. I like a single high resolution display (currently using a 4k tv), some people prefer multiple screens, some don't mind at all.

Quote

What would you say is the best branch(i belieave its like this word) would be to go after?

Depends what you like. If you're in just for the money, then webdev for a fast job, crypto, ML or SRE if you want stability and high salary after 10+ years of experience.

Quote

What languages should a new coder approach first?

Python, it's almost as easy as writing plain english.

Quote

How is the lifestyle and routine of a coder?

I wake up at 8am, eat, sit down, read some random shit, see what tasks are assigned to me, try to solve those. If there's none, then I try to refactor some stuff that bothers me, update docs, get some random task on the backlog or just don't do nothing at all.

I'd say that I only spend at most 10% of my time actually coding.

Quote

How long till a person is good enough so it cant start working from home or freelance?

As soon as you feel confident enough to send your resumé out there. You don't really need to know anything, there are tons of companies willing to teach your everything from the basics, as long as you show enough enthusiasm and proactivity.

 

On 9/13/2020 at 12:41 AM, LtStaffel said:

I thought you meant functional vs object-oriented. OOP is much easier for a new person to understand than functional which is very mathematical, and lots of people dislike math.

I'd recommend functional because it's easier for someone to associate it to a regular "pipeline" of tasks rather than how things go on imperativa languages. For someone that's just getting started, there's no need to understand anything about all the lambda calculus stuff.

 

On 9/13/2020 at 8:24 AM, Unimportant said:

I'd say the low level stuff.

 

There's an abundance of ever more abstract languages, further and further removed from the hardware, and the accompanying programmers who know less and less about how things work under the hood.

 

That's nice and all but what I see regularly:

• Their abstract machine fails in some way or the other -> they're clueless about what to do next.
• Less and less people in the fields that actually design and build the underlying systems these languages run on.

And as a result, those who do have this knowledge can eat all the other's lunch.

For low level stuff, the bar is usually way higher. If you want to get in embedded, as an examples, companies will most likely require a college degree in EE or CE. Operating systems and HPC stuff will also require tons of experience.

The amount of gatekeeping for those areas is also way off the charts.

[AzzaNezz]

Jesus christ guys,you all helped tremendous with all of your answers.

I am learning at the moment Javascript,idk should i continue(i am 3 hours in so far),should i continue or go to phyton or java first?

i am rocking dual monitor atm,my laptop screen and one 24'' monitor and i am loving it.

If i ever start actually making money from programming i will invest in proper monitors/desktop.

I need to find a nice chair,but atm my budget isnt that great since i already invested 750 euros in laptop,monitor and mouse.

I am on search for nice quited low profile keyboard.I am using razer blackwidow with green switches,which is really nice,but button are kind high and loud af.

 

Companys around me that require c,c++ or Java are mostly hight profile companys like siemens,some hospital type of companys,and even my own company where i work atm(i work in lumber industry as a normal worker on line) they all require degree,bunch of experience,which i understand since all the machines are high cost(i work with another guy on machine that is aproximettly 4.5-5 million euros),and i also wouldnt guy doing some programming fix on this machine if he is unexperienced without degree,since even our own programmers often fuck up things with updates they do.

 

Il get a grip on learning things probably web design since there are some offers around my area.

 

I see most if not all recommended learning by doing some projects.

How do you approach this,do you first do tutorials like me at the moment doing Udemy,or you just simply find some games to code that have tutorial etc?

[shadow_ray]

2 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

I see most if not all recommended learning by doing some projects.

How do you approach this,do you first do tutorials like me at the moment doing Udemy,or you just simply find some games to code that have tutorial etc?

Get the basics right first. Follow structured learning materials, then try to use what you learned to make small things. You don't want holes in your knowledge... otherwise you will end up like me (and my English)

[LtStaffel]

7 hours ago, igormp said:

I'd recommend functional because it's easier for someone to associate it to a regular "pipeline" of tasks rather than how things go on imperativa languages. For someone that's just getting started, there's no need to understand anything about all the lambda calculus stuff.

That's not really what functional means. Functional programming is a much broader topic than that. Python is not a functional language. Python is a good language, but it is object oriented, not functional.

[igormp]

28 minutes ago, LtStaffel said:

That's not really what functional means. Functional programming is a much broader topic than that. Python is not a functional language. Python is a good language, but it is object oriented, not functional.

It is, indeed, but that doesn't matter for someone who is starting. Also, python is multi-paradigm. You can write both functional, OO and/or procedural Python, as an example.

 

I rarely ever use is an OO lang because I find that obnoxious. If I wanted OO, I'd be doing java 

[LtStaffel]

1 hour ago, igormp said:

It is, indeed, but that doesn't matter for someone who is starting. Also, python is multi-paradigm. You can write both functional, OO and/or procedural Python, as an example.

 

I rarely ever use is an OO lang because I find that obnoxious. If I wanted OO, I'd be doing java 

Python can't pass functions as arguments

[igormp]

1 hour ago, LtStaffel said:

Python can't pass functions as arguments

Eh, it sure can

def add(x,y):
    print(x+y)

def high_order(add_f, args):
    add_f(*args)

high_order(add, (1,2))

# python test.py                                  
3

 

[straight_stewie]

16 hours ago, igormp said:

Python, it's almost as easy as writing plain english.

 

Python can sometimes be more of a curse than a blessing for those who are serious about self directed learning.

It's true that it's an extremely approachable language. It's also true that it's very popular, likely for this reason. It's very "expressive".

But it's also true that it leaves out all kinds of important things, like explicit (and static) typing, as well as serious support for simple things like encapsulation.

 

Not learning those things from the beginning makes them almost impossible to learn later. Remember, it is always acceptable to break rules once you've learned them well, but it's almost always impossible to instate rules once you've gotten used to not having them. 

"Rules" like static typing systems and actually working encapsulation are absolutely critical to writing serious, provably correct, production quality code.

Learning Python first, at least in self-directed learning, can really bite one in the ass later in their exploration of space. Programming.

Which brings me to the next advice:
Get used to listening to background music. Music without words is of extreme importance when you need to focus.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

Jesus christ guys,you all helped tremendous with all of your answers.

I am learning at the moment Javascript,idk should i continue(i am 3 hours in so far),should i continue or go to phyton or java first?

Javascript is fine.

If you REALLY want to learn another language, you can learn Java, but it's American to UK English.

22 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

Companys around me that require c,c++ or Java are mostly hight profile companys like siemens,some hospital type of companys,

If you want to work with them, then change to Java or C++. But pick one. BTW C & C++ are really prone to crashing but they give the most control over the computer. (Good & bad thing)

22 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

and even my own company where i work atm(i work in lumber industry as a normal worker on line) they all require degree,bunch of experience,which i understand since all the machines are high cost(i work with another guy on machine that is aproximettly 4.5-5 million euros),and i also wouldnt guy doing some programming fix on this machine if he is unexperienced without degree,since even our own programmers often fuck up things with updates they do.

Ask your company to pay for your education & transfer to that department. Many companies prefer to hire internally than externally & love to further the knowledge of employees that will remain and further assist the company.

22 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

Il get a grip on learning things probably web design since there are some offers around my area.

You can spend your whole career using Javascript, HTML & CSS afaik.

22 hours ago, AzzaNezz said:

I see most if not all recommended learning by doing some projects.

How do you approach this,do you first do tutorials like me at the moment doing Udemy,or you just simply find some games to code that have tutorial etc?

Decide to make something & just start trying to make it. When you come to a problem that you cannot possibly think to overcome, google your problem.

 

"How to make a dropdown menu in Javascript"

"How to put a video on a website HTML"

[AzzaNezz]

3 hours ago, fpo said:

Ask your company to pay for your education & transfer to that department. Many companies prefer to hire internally than externally & love to further the knowledge of employees that will remain and further assist the company.

I am in Austria and it doesnt go like that here.I would need to finish another 4 years of full time highschool which you get payed here regardless of company.

That money would be something like  700 euros per month.I have a 1year old,wife and credit loans that need to be payed,even with my 2200 euros paycheck there isnt much room to save some.

and highschool+college isnt an option,thats why i am not going into this direction.

butr i get your point and thank you for writing that out,maybe someone other will see this and it will help them.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, AzzaNezz said:

I am in Austria and it doesnt go like that here.I would need to finish another 4 years of full time highschool which you get payed here regardless of company.

That money would be something like  700 euros per month.I have a 1year old,wife and credit loans that need to be payed,even with my 2200 euros paycheck there isnt much room to save some.

and highschool+college isnt an option,thats why i am not going into this direction.

butr i get your point and thank you for writing that out,maybe someone other will see this and it will help them.

THe company will PAY for the college not you.