Modified PC power delivery

[Islam Ghunym]

Intel has started recently to move away from ATX-24 pin standard to a new 10 pin 12V connector only (ATX-12VO)

the Asrock Z490 Phanton Gaming ASR is the first motherboard to implement that.

The motherboard can take in 12V rail only then convert it to other required voltages 3.3, 5, -12.. whatever.

 

Now this looks interesting and very useful because now I can use 12V batteries to power on my system.

 

The thing is that batteries voltage will go as down as 11.6 and as high as 14.2V during charge so what will happen if a motherboard recieved a little bit of overvoltage to 14.0V above 12V standard. Will that be fine?. I had some experience with over and under volting different devices such as modems, routers, a Stick PC and monitors powered up by 12V batteries so that voltage goes high to 14.2 during charge and as low as 11V while they are still perfectly functional. Will that be the same for PC motherboards? I may have some overclocking problems or stock system crashes so I will ask in other words. Will th 14.2 overvolt on the 12V rail kill the motherboard or any of PC components

[RTX 3090]

Use a buck boost converter for stable voltage. 

Also a lead acid battery likely won't power your system, unless you use a high amperage output one

[Islam Ghunym]

26 minutes ago, Anonymous015 said:

Use a buck boost converter for stable voltage. 

Also a lead acid battery likely won't power your system, unless you use a high amperage output one

The reason why I am doing this is to get higher power efficiency not to mess it up by some kind of regulator + there is no normal regulator that can regulate 200 watts of power getting inside the motherboard and the GPU. so I made a clear question. I don't want any work around

The plan is to make an online custom DC system.

[Lemtea]

If the voltage tolerances on the new 12V spec are anything like the old spec (+-5%) it is highly unlikely that a motherboard would to deal with the voltage range of a battery. I mean it may work but the voltages would be out of spec so there is no guarantee, as the components are designed for precise voltages. 

[Prodigy_Smit]

53 minutes ago, Islam Ghunym said:

12V batteries to power on my system.

This just sound like a bad idea. But using a 12 volt regulator should provide a clean output for powering on the system but i still don't recommend it for long term use. If you want you could use a full bridge rectifier and then connect that to the 12 volt regulator if you want to power if from a wall outlet but again this just sounds like a house fire with extra steps.

[Kilrah]

It's not going to work straight off batteries without additional regulation. 

 

 

 

Just get a DC-ATX, these have existed for quite a while...

[zeros]

You need a power supply that can handle 12v and let the PSU to handle the motherboard and the rest. I don't see why you'd want to connect directly to the motherboard...

 

If you can even find a 12v PSU

 

Maybe something like this http://stcpowertech.com/products/industrial/SFX/45/

 

Good luck...

[zeros]

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

It's not going to work straight off batteries without additional regulation. 

 

 

 

Just get a DC-ATX, these have existed for quite a while...

https://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/407?ci=6

 

Something like this, now I know what they are called..

[Kilrah]

That looks like a pretty terrible and expensive unit, but the HDPLEX is a common choice (requires more than 12V though):

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-400w-hi-fi-dc-atx-power-supply-16v-24v-wide-range-voltage-input.html

 

And if you're willing to gamble that the CPU and GPU supplies are going to cope with 11-15V you just get a PicoPSU and can use any standard mobo instead of only the one or 2 ATX12VO available.

https://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT

 

ATX12VO just offers zero benefit for this scenario, everything already exists to work with standard ATX.

[Islam Ghunym]

10 hours ago, zeros said:

You need a power supply that can handle 12v and let the PSU to handle the motherboard and the rest. I don't see why you'd want to connect directly to the motherboard...

 

If you can even find a 12v PSU

 

Maybe something like this http://stcpowertech.com/products/industrial/SFX/45/

 

Good luck...

How could you even buy from this site. No carts, no price, but anyway typical efficiency of this unit at full load is 65% which is extremely bad as it looks and I don't think that it is reasonably priced too.

[Islam Ghunym]

11 hours ago, Kilrah said:

It's not going to work straight off batteries without additional regulation. 

 

 

 

Just get a DC-ATX, these have existed for quite a while...

I already seen these data, but that does not tell how the motherboard would behave. will the system refuse to boot over 12.6V? and if system was already powered up with a voltage between the range of specs (11.4-12.6) then suddenly my charger started so that voltage go higher gradually above the specs, will the system crash? Or it will keep working fine? taking in consideration that the pin of grey cable won't be connected so the motherboard won't recieve data from a PSU as usual with voltage monitoring so motherboard won't know if it does not measure it by itself

 

Outside specs and data sheets technicaly nothing inside the motherboard uses the 12V input as it is except fans and LEDs.

the motherboard will convert the the input power to other proper voltages that are useable by motherboard ICs and other devices. The conversion process is done by some kind of components that can regulate input voltages as long as it does not go as high as killing voltage or as low as not being able to. The above data does not say about motherboard VRM.

I am wondering if I could do that because that will save up to 30% of battery power if pluging done directly without any kind of regulator or power supplies. If that worked I can then find a way to power on and off the system as that wouldn't be something.

 

Honestly if I wanted to know something, but I couldn't, I will be crazy enough to try and place a debt on very expensive components like the RTX 2070 super coupled with high end CPU and motherboard so hopefuly someone would convince me and save me from trying proving to me that it deffinetely won't work with things that would happen if I tried 

[Kilrah]

2 hours ago, Islam Ghunym said:

The above data does not say about motherboard VRM.

No, but it says what specs they're designed around. Beyond that anything goes, some mobos/GPUs might work fine, some might misbehave, some might blow up straight away, it's just a gamble that can end up either working just fine or blowing $1K+ worth of equipment. I just mentioned the safe way to do it.

 

2 hours ago, Islam Ghunym said:

I am wondering if I could do that because that will save up to 30% of battery power if pluging done directly without any kind of regulator or power supplies.

The HDPLEX unit is rated at >94% efficiency. Makes it not worth the risk IMO... but it's your call to take.

 

What's the application anyway?

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Islam Ghunym said:

Intel has started recently to move away from ATX-24 pin standard to a new 10 pin 12V connector only (ATX-12VO)

 

No.  No they haven't.

 

[RTX 3090]

On 8/15/2020 at 10:48 AM, Islam Ghunym said:

The reason why I am doing this is to get higher power efficiency not to mess it up by some kind of regulator + there is no normal regulator that can regulate 200 watts of power getting inside the motherboard and the GPU. so I made a clear question. I don't want any work around

The plan is to make an online custom DC system.

Well in that case it won't be possible. You need to have some sort of regulation, if you want higher efficience, just undervolt your CPU

[zeros]

19 hours ago, Islam Ghunym said:

How could you even buy from this site. No carts, no price, but anyway typical efficiency of this unit at full load is 65% which is extremely bad as it looks and I don't think that it is reasonably priced too.

I didn't mean that one specifically. But rather to look for something similar on a website you can buy from. Look at the title and keywords that you can search with similar models.

[Islam Ghunym]

19 hours ago, Kilrah said:

No, but it says what specs they're designed around. Beyond that anything goes, some mobos/GPUs might work fine, some might misbehave, some might blow up straight away, it's just a gamble that can end up either working just fine or blowing $1K+ worth of equipment. I just mentioned the safe way to do it.

You made it harder . Now I need full analysis about each graphic card and motherboard I get...

 

19 hours ago, Kilrah said:

The HDPLEX unit is rated at >94% efficiency. Makes it not worth the risk IMO... but it's your call to take.

Yes, but my battery system is bassed on 12V.

 

19 hours ago, Kilrah said:

What's the application anyway?

It is a set high amps lead acid batteries with a high amp charger and inverter pluged into the wall which works as a UPS system. The power from the wall socket is unreliable as we don't know when it will cutt or when it will get back so I depend on my batteries for everything and that raises annual costs of power a lot so I look always for an efficient way to use battery power as it is a permanent situation.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Islam Ghunym

[Kilrah]

9 minutes ago, Islam Ghunym said:

Yes, but my battery system is bassed on 12V.

Just take 2 batteries out of the pack / get more and make a small 24V system for the PC. Will just cost some 50 bucks for a 24V charger, and efficiency can be even better than on 12V.

[Islam Ghunym]

On 8/16/2020 at 9:51 PM, Kilrah said:

Just take 2 batteries out of the pack / get more and make a small 24V system for the PC. Will just cost some 50 bucks for a 24V charger, and efficiency can be even better than on 12V.

I didn't have a good experience with other than 12V system despite that higher voltage is more effcient, but having 2 batteries on a sequence means of one of those batteries died it is going to kill the other along with it. Also the lifespan of batteries is going to extend if they were all gathered in parallel because they will be less discharged. The 3rd thing is that I own 3 x 300A 12V deep cycle batteries and if I gathered only 2 for one application I have to change the other applications in my work room and there is actually a lot more reason I can't use 24V so it is not easier option than running a PC on 12V directly.