What will be the PC equivalent to a PS5?

[steelo]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Yep.  Jaguar2 is in both upcoming consoles and they’ve had test systems out for some time.

LOL...I've heard of the jaguar2 but I had no idea it was this powerful. The last article I read mentioned it's roughly equivalent to a rx 5700xt?

[Bombastinator]

Just now, steelo said:

The last article I read mentioned it's roughly equivalent to a rx 5700xt?

Or more.  It’s unknown.  There have been leaks that people have extrapolated from, so numbers are vague. The low end seems to be 5700xt, the high end is near 2080.

[steelo]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Or more.  It’s unknown.  There have been leaks that people have extrapolated from, so numbers are vague. The low end seems to be 5700xt, the high end is near 2080.

Dang

[Stahlmann]

13 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

3.8 is only 0.15 off then, not too bad. 

Well in gaming the 3700X is boosting to 4.4GHz at all times. That's significantly faster than 3.8GHz. The 3.9 all-core AVX is something you'll see in cinebench or blender rendering, so that clock can't be compared to the console chip which will never do any of that.

[Lord Vile]

41 minutes ago, Stahlmann98 said:

Well in gaming the 3700X is boosting to 4.4GHz at all times. That's significantly faster than 3.8GHz. The 3.9 all-core AVX is something you'll see in cinebench or blender rendering, so that clock can't be compared to the console chip which will never do any of that.

You can't really compare anyway due to optimisation. Maybe having a steady locked clock is better for devs to work with when targeting performance levels. 

[Stahlmann]

1 minute ago, Lord Vile said:

You can't really compare anyway due to optimisation. Maybe having a steady locked clock is better for devs to work with when targeting performance levels. 

Yes you're right about that. Because all PS5's are the same hardware, devs will be able to optimize it better. I just think people (like with every next-gen console launch) get too excited and expect too much from the consoles, thinking they could actually hold up to a 1500$ pc, which they can't. I just don't get why so many people get so excited about the hardware, because until now we only have spec numbers which don't say ANYTHING about the actual gaming performance, which is the single most important aspect for consoles. Even with their stupid marketing by saying 4k-support, Raytracin support, High-Refresh-rate-support. "Supporting" doesn't tell anything about how good. Even next-gen consoles will NOT be powerful enough to play games at native 4K 60FPS, let alone with Raytracing or at high refresh-rates.

[Uttamattamakin]

15 hours ago, steelo said:

Surely he'll need a dedicated graphics card though, right? This is the first I've heard of Ryzen 7 APU's but I'm sure they can't match the performance of dedicated graphics cards...

PS5 will have a custom Zen 2 CPU and a GPU based on RDNA2.  I would not rule out this being actually an APU that will be available for PC but ... better .

According to this the Xbox Series X explicity has an RDNA2 IGP  in other words an AMD APU   So I would be frankly very surprised if the newest available APU for PC won't do what it does.   https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482]

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/ryzen-4700g-overclocked

 

 

[Lord Vile]

1 hour ago, Stahlmann98 said:

Yes you're right about that. Because all PS5's are the same hardware, devs will be able to optimize it better. I just think people (like with every next-gen console launch) get too excited and expect too much from the consoles, thinking they could actually hold up to a 1500$ pc, which they can't. I just don't get why so many people get so excited about the hardware, because until now we only have spec numbers which don't say ANYTHING about the actual gaming performance, which is the single most important aspect for consoles. Even with their stupid marketing by saying 4k-support, Raytracin support, High-Refresh-rate-support. "Supporting" doesn't tell anything about how good. Even next-gen consoles will NOT be powerful enough to play games at native 4K 60FPS, let alone with Raytracing or at high refresh-rates.

I'm expecting it to hang with a 2080 or even beat it. The GPU is RDNA2 and has 12 more CUs than the RDNA 5700XT and runs around 100MHz faster and has around 2 more TFLOPS (I know it's not indicative of gaming). And the 5700XT hangs with the 2080 and can do 4K. With optimisation 4K60 high should be doable. Considering they're essentially PCs at this point we can estimate and establish a base expectation of performance based off what we already know.

[Stahlmann]

7 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

And the 5700XT hangs with the 2080 and can do 4K.

The 5700XT is more between 2070 and 2070 Super in terms of performance. The 2080 would be more like my 1080Ti. And my card is NOT capable of native 4K at all. In almost all titles i tried 4K i only got 40-50 fps at best. With better looking games under 40 fps. For native 4K 60 fps you'll need to get a 2080Ti in many titles. And even the 2080Ti will still only be borderline capable of achieving 60 fps. There are only very few examples Unless you expect 2080Ti-like performance from these consoles, they will likely resort to upscaling and not native 4K again. Or just lock the game to 30 fps then...

[Lord Vile]

10 minutes ago, Stahlmann98 said:

The 5700XT is more between 2070 and 2070 Super in terms of performance. The 2080 would be more like my 1080Ti. And my card is NOT capable of native 4K at all. In almost all titles i tried 4K i only got 40-50 fps at best. With better looking games under 40 fps. For native 4K 60 fps you'll need to get a 2080Ti in many titles. And even the 2080Ti will still only be borderline capable of achieving 60 fps. There are only very few examples Unless you expect 2080Ti-like performance from these consoles, they will likely resort to upscaling and not native 4K again. Or just lock the game to 30 fps then...

"Hang with"

 

1080Ti is worse than the 2070S

 

Look at the 4K charts:

https://www.techspot.com/review/1870-amd-radeon-rx-5700/

 

All on max settings, drop to high and the 5700XT should be able to handle it with good frame rates. AA is a key one that's not needed at 4K and will save a decent amount of frames. 

[Stahlmann]

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

"Hang with"

 

1080Ti is worse than the 2070S

 

Look at the 4K charts:

https://www.techspot.com/review/1870-amd-radeon-rx-5700/

 

All on max settings, drop to high and the 5700XT should be able to handle it with good frame rates.

According to these charts the 1080Ti is better than the 2070 Super in most games, not worse. Especially at 4K. Maybe they'll achieve 4K 60 fps by dropping the settings to high or medium. But that doesn't make any sense imo because 4K is about image quality.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

PS5 will have a custom Zen 2 CPU and a GPU based on RDNA2.  I would not rule out this being actually an APU that will be available for PC but ... better .

According to this the Xbox Series X explicity has an RDNA2 IGP  in other words an AMD APU   So I would be frankly very surprised if the newest available APU for PC won't do what it does.   https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482]

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/ryzen-4700g-overclocked

 

 

The thing is CPUs are not a true competitive market so the best that can be done may never be offered.  Just because AMD can make an apu that beats a 1080ti doesn’t mean they will necessarily sell them to consumers unless they have to.

[Lord Vile]

25 minutes ago, Stahlmann98 said:

According to these charts the 1080Ti is better than the 2070 Super in most games, not worse. Especially at 4K. Maybe they'll achieve 4K 60 fps by dropping the settings to high or medium. But that doesn't make any sense imo because 4K is about image quality.

Depends on game and it'll do better at 4K die to the 11GB of VRAM. Remember the new GPU will be better than the 5700XT and have optimisation. 

[Aragorn-]

2 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

According to this the Xbox Series X explicity has an RDNA2 IGP  in other words an AMD APU   So I would be frankly very surprised if the newest available APU for PC won't do what it does.   https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482]

 

The GPU in both the XBX and PS5 are significantly larger than whats found in the likes of a 4800u.

 

The core config for both consoles is already known, details here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Console_GPUs

 

The PS5 has 36 RDNA2 compute units. The Xbox has 52CU's.

 

For comparison, the RX5700 has 36 and the 5700xt has 40 CU's, albeit on the RDNA node.

 

This likely means that both console GPU's are more powerful than a 5700XT, as its likely the newer arch will bring improvements.

 

But also likely less powerful than the biggest RDNA2 desktop parts, which are rumored to have 60CU's.

 

Which is fairly typical. Console GPU's on release, are historically roughly equal to the upper end of what a PC can achieve at the time. The PS4 and XBOne were almost exceptions to that rule, both having pretty weak GPUs compared with the best PC had to offer at the time.

[steelo]

4 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

PS5 will have a custom Zen 2 CPU and a GPU based on RDNA2.  I would not rule out this being actually an APU that will be available for PC but ... better .

According to this the Xbox Series X explicity has an RDNA2 IGP  in other words an AMD APU   So I would be frankly very surprised if the newest available APU for PC won't do what it does.   https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482]

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/ryzen-4700g-overclocked

 

 

I'm not well versed on console hardware (I have an xbox one that's been sitting on the shelf for the past 3 years) but I just find it astonishing that AMD integrated graphics will go from being roughly as powerful as a GT1030 to performance between a RX 5700XT and GTX2080 (as another poster mentioned)

 

If this is true, graphics cards may become obsolete in the future.

[Marbo]

It's always going to be hard to make a comparison. The ps5 is all proprietary and each component reaserched to get the optimal performance when working together. 

 

The bios and os are programed to work with one particular group of components, not countless combinations

 

In short, it has one job to do. Rather than try to work out which parts are the closest match it would be better to work out which pc components give a similar performance. There are going to be lots of combinations you can use. 

[Uttamattamakin]

7 hours ago, Marbo said:

It's always going to be hard to make a comparison. The ps5 is all proprietary and each component reaserched to get the optimal performance when working together. 

 

The bios and os are programed to work with one particular group of components, not countless combinations

 

In short, it has one job to do. Rather than try to work out which parts are the closest match it would be better to work out which pc components give a similar performance. There are going to be lots of combinations you can use. 

That is a key  point.  Everything about it is optimized to the hilt.  While PC's real PC's are generalized and simply need to have a lot of grunt to power through any task in front of them. 

 

That said, I'd wager a PC that is $200 more than a console against any console.  With the increase in price being worth it because you get a PC that can do anything and be upgraded. 

[Bombastinator]

Just helped someone order an iBuyPower system (I still feel a bit dirty) she wanted a 3900x and a 2080s.  I got her to put in a 1tb sata SSD on a b550 rog strix (limited choices.  I saw it as least bad) and leave her m.2s empty in case the jaguar2 machines have happy fun games in store storage wise.  This was a bit over what I thought it would take but I hold out hope.