what mask do I buy to protect against coronavirus?

[MS-DOS]

13 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The thread jack direct I guess.  Korea was an example that is different from the American is all.  I don’t know a thing about what h13 means.  You’ll notice it’s not a quote.  There’s all kinds of weird crap in this thread about wheatgrass and megadose vitaminC and other old 1970’s era long ago debunked things.  Step one would be finding out what h13 even is.  Google might.  It’s good for things like that.  $150 is a whole lot of money.   I have read that one way valve masks are actually sort of evil because they DONT protect others at all, and can even make things worse.

My main argument is that LG wouldn't release something that can be harmful to health which would ruin their reputation.

 

Im not wearing ffp2 masks specially in the summer, I can't proeprly breathe.

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, MS-DOS said:

My main argument is that LG wouldn't release something that can be harmful to health which would ruin their reputation.

 

Im not wearing ffp2 masks specially in the summer, I can't proeprly breathe.

This if connected to the initial statement negates the possibility of a problem.  I seems to say “I want to buy this thing that cannot possibly not do what I think it does so all I am really looking for is confirmation even though I am doing so by pretending to ask a question” 

 

LG is a multinational corporation.  Corporations aren’t even alive.  Attributing morality to a corporation is generally a mistake.  Would they on purpose?  Sure.  Multinationals have done such things in the past. Often though it is done in such a way as to make finding of liability difficult or impossible. Would they by accident?  Also sure.  That has happened too.  The two that pop instantly into my head are thalidomide and oil spills, but that one is generally legion. With those avoiding liability generally happens after the fact.   What I was saying about 

 

South Korea is a nation.  It has laws and regulations and such.  One thing they have is their own classification system for particulate filtration.  It is different from the US medical and OCEA systems which are different from each other. The term used to describe the particulate system is not one I am familiar with but it does not seem to follow either the US OCEA or medical systems.  Doesn’t mean it’s bad.  But if you want to find out what it means you may need to look elsewhere.  Possibly South Korea. 
 

One way valves are very common on OCEA stuff.  They have a serious problem when dealing with COVID though.  A mask is a barrier.  It can keep things out or keep things in.  OCEA stuff is generally concerned with keeping things out while medical masks are generally concerned with keeping things in. Home made cloth masks are of a medical type.  They’re better at keeping things in than keeping them out.  Therefore they mostly work only if literally everyone wears one.  Both types of masks generally work at least a little in both directions though.  The problem with one way valves is that while they can keep things out, they don’t keep things in AT ALL.  in fact they can actually make things worse by increasing exhalation air velocity. 

[MS-DOS]

9 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

This if connected to the initial statement negates the possibility of a problem.  I seems to say “I want to buy this thing that cannot possibly not do what I think it does so all I am really looking for is confirmation even though I am doing so by pretending to ask a question” 

 

LG is a multinational corporation.  Corporations aren’t even alive.  Attributing morality to a corporation is generally a mistake.  Would they on purpose?  Sure.  Multinationals have done such things in the past. Often though it is done in such a way as to make finding of liability difficult or impossible. Would they by accident?  Also sure.  That has happened too.  The two that pop instantly into my head are thalidomide and oil spills, but that one is generally legion. With those avoiding liability generally happens after the fact.   What I was saying about 

 

South Korea is a nation.  It has laws and regulations and such.  One thing they have is their own classification system for particulate filtration.  It is different from the US medical and OCEA systems which are different from each other. The term used to describe the particulate system is not one I am familiar with but it does not seem to follow either the US OCEA or medical systems.  Doesn’t mean it’s bad.  But if you want to find out what it means you may need to look elsewhere.  Possibly South Korea. 
 

One way valves are very common on OCEA stuff.  They have a serious problem when dealing with COVID though.  A mask is a barrier.  It can keep things out or keep things in.  OCEA stuff is generally concerned with keeping things out while medical masks are generally concerned with keeping things in. Home made cloth masks are of a medical type.  They’re better at keeping things in than keeping them out.  Therefore they mostly work only if literally everyone wears one.  Both types of masks generally work at least a little in both directions though.  The problem with one way valves is that while they can keep things out, they don’t keep things in AT ALL.  in fact they can actually make things worse by increasing exhalation air velocity. 

 

 

I've found EN1822:2009 certification, European certification for H13 filter:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/air-filters

EN1822: 2009 High Efficiency Particulate Air (HEPA) filters
H13	≥ 99.95	For high-risk food applications where very clean air might be required, e.g. cooked sliced meats
	H14 ≥ 99.995

[Bombastinator]

35 minutes ago, MS-DOS said:

 

 

I've found EN1822:2009 certification, European certification for H13 filter:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/air-filters

EN1822: 2009 High Efficiency Particulate Air (HEPA) filters
H13	≥ 99.95	For high-risk food applications where very clean air might be required, e.g. cooked sliced meats
	H14 ≥ 99.995

Well there you go then.  A food prep certification, which is weird.  Might be what’s around.  The way HEPA filters work is complicated and I don’t really understand it but it has to do with charge attraction and can work on insanely small things.   Food prep should be more of a keeping thing in than keeping things out thing. Assuming the h14 standard is effective on small to mediums sized viruses (covid isn’t very big) it should do both in and out quite well.  Unless of course there is a one way valve.  The one way valve thing is a bit new.  

[Sauron]

On 2/15/2020 at 1:53 PM, Bombastinator said:

Even the flu is a lot more likely to kill you.

Bullshit. Pure, unfiltered bullshit. The death rate for the flu is an order of magnitude lower than that of covid and so it its rate of infection. Oh, and guess what, wearing a mask ALSO hinders the spread of the flu.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Bullshit. Pure, unfiltered bullshit. The death rate for the flu is an order of magnitude lower than that of covid and so it its rate of infection. Oh, and guess what, wearing a mask ALSO hinders the spread of the flu.

Yep.  It was feb 2020 when I wrote that.  Before the thing even reached my country.  Shame on me for allowing credence to GOP obfuscation.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Yep.  It was feb 2020 when I wrote that.  Before the thing even reached my country.  Shame on me for allowing credence to GOP obfuscation.

Oh I'm sorry, I saw the thread on the front page and didn't notice it was from last year.

[Radium_Angel]

I used to regular wear HEPA/hazmat masks/respirators when I did EPA Superfund cleanup oversight. It's way more than just slapping one on and being good to go. There are fit tests and certifications and maintenance and so forth.

But when you are knee deep in an unknown contaminate site....you will be very thankful for proper respiratory protection.

And there is just more than HEPA, there's chemical and biological and bacteriological filtration as well, and (at least when I did this work) there wasn't a one-size-fits-all approach to filtering air, you had to know what was the main threat and act accordingly.

 

[MS-DOS]

40 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Well there you go then.  A food prep certification, which is weird.  Might be what’s around.  The way HEPA filters work is complicated and I don’t really understand it but it has to do with charge attraction and can work on insanely small things.   Food prep should be more of a keeping thing in than keeping things out thing. Assuming the h14 standard is effective on small to mediums sized viruses (covid isn’t very big) it should do both in and out quite well.  Unless of course there is a one way valve.  The one way valve thing is a bit new.  

Well covid particle travels in bigger particles, so h13 may be enough. We will see when LG delivers certificate on covid tests

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Oh I'm sorry, I saw the thread on the front page and didn't notice it was from last year.

No worries.  It’s arguably useful.  I read that one myself having forgotten I made it and winced.  I dunno, the record or the change of opinions over time is imho the most interesting thing about this thread. 

[Bombastinator]

24 minutes ago, SGT-AMD said:

Use a face shield

It’s a year old thread so we have a lot more info we didn’t have then.  Face shields make some sense though. They do some of what home made cloth masks do with som additional bennies. There’s a point for face shield to augment almost any other system.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, SGT-AMD said:

You are correct, as this chart explains: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Indeed, just look at this:

In 2020, COVID-19 was fortytwo (42) times as deadly as the flu. Now, we know that COVID health precautions have also really hammered the flu, so let's assume the 8767 number is deflated.

 

Okay, so let's compare the 2020 COVID-19 deaths to the 2018-2019 Flu Season flu deaths:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html#:~:text=CDC estimates that influenza was,the 2018–2019 influenza season.

This tells us that compared to a normal flu year, COVID-19 is still nearly 11 times as deadly as the flu.

Quote

I just received the latest flu shot (haven't had one for about 40 years), and along with Vitamin D3, I have been very lucky.

I never used to get the flu shot growing up, but when I started working at a public library, I decided to change that. I get the flu shot every year now.

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s a year old thread so we have a lot more info we didn’t have then.  Face shields make some sense though. They do some of what home made cloth masks do with som additional bennies. There’s a point for face shield to augment almost any other system.

Face Shields really only work well if used in conjunction with a mask of some type.

 

Yes, they're better than nothing, and if you stay away from a person wearing a face shield and don't occupy the space they were recently in right after they left it, you're probably fine.

 

But all they're doing is redirecting most of the water particles on which COVID takes a trip. Some of those particles hit the shield and adhere to it, but the vast majority of them just swirl around in a vortex around your head.

 

Of course, better than those mouth shield things I see some people wear (This):

These things are 100% useless, and definitely do not stop or slow the spread of COVID-19.

 

Frankly, I think they should be outlawed as illegal for use as COVID protection.

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Indeed, just look at this:

In 2020, COVID-19 was fortytwo (42) times as deadly as the flu. Now, we know that COVID health precautions have also really hammered the flu, so let's assume the 8767 number is deflated.

 

Okay, so let's compare the 2020 COVID-19 deaths to the 2018-2019 Flu Season flu deaths:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html#:~:text=CDC estimates that influenza was,the 2018–2019 influenza season.

This tells us that compared to a normal flu year, COVID-19 is still nearly 11 times as deadly as the flu.

I never used to get the flu shot growing up, but when I started working at a public library, I decided to change that. I get the flu shot every year now.

Face Shields really only work well if used in conjunction with a mask of some type.

 

Yes, they're better than nothing, and if you stay away from a person wearing a face shield and don't occupy the space they were recently in right after they left it, you're probably fine.

 

But all they're doing is redirecting most of the water particles on which COVID takes a trip. Some of those particles hit the shield and adhere to it, but the vast majority of them just swirl around in a vortex around your head.

 

Of course, better than those mouth shield things I see some people wear (This):

These things are 100% useless, and definitely do not stop or slow the spread of COVID-19.

 

Frankly, I think they should be outlawed as illegal for use as COVID protection.

That ridiculous chin bib thing I’ve never seen before. A miniaturized reverse face shield.  Yeah that thing looks basically useless alright.     Possibly worse than useless.  The ones I was thinking of are the full face things with an adjustable headband. They don’t filter air at all but they protect the eyes.  Wet to wet is needed for covid transmission.  The wet can be microscopically small through.  They also catch large droplets projecting forward and redirect breath mist back towards the chest and over the head.  That thing just tips it up.  Like a ski jump to give particles mor airtime.  I’ve heard synthetic fabrics are also worse than useless because they don’t absorb anything.  Even mercanterized cotton has problems and basically all cotton thread for weaving or sewing has been mercanterized or had some similar process used on it since the turn of the last century.  Tends to wash out though, so the best materials according to that theory for home made masks are well used natural fabrics.

[piratemonkey]

I'm not reading through the whole thread cuz it's a lot. But right now, I believe the American cdc recommends a non medical cloth mask (of course medical masks are also ok). A Californian university put out findings that a medical mask underneath a cloth mask is really good, protecting others a bit more and yourself a lot more. Almost as good as an n95 mask. An authentic/certified n95* is currently the best, protecting others in addition to yourself. A regular cloth/medical mask only protects others, and requires everyone to wear a mask in order to be effective (as in, for everyone to reap the safety benefits of masking everyone has to wear a mask). However, masks can only protect so much. Even with social distancing and masks, it's "only" a ~98% effectiveness rate. Its far better to stay at home when possible. 

*Masks can say they're n95, but aren't actually. I'm not sure on the specifics but I believe the CDC does the guidelines so you should read up on them to make sure any n95 masks are actually up to that standard. 

Edit: I realize now this was posted almost a year ago. But information and advice is important nonetheless 

Edited February 10, 2021 by piratemonkey

[Bombastinator]

13 minutes ago, piratemonkey said:

I'm not reading through the whole thread cuz it's a lot. But right now, I believe the American cdc recommends a non medical cloth mask (of course medical masks are also ok). A Californian university put out findings that a medical mask underneath a cloth mask is really good, protecting others a bit more and yourself a lot more. Almost as good as an n95 mask. An authentic/certified n95* is currently the best, protecting others in addition to yourself. A regular cloth/medical mask only protects others, and requires everyone to wear a mask in order to be effective (as in, for everyone to reap the safety benefits of masking everyone has to wear a mask). However, masks can only protect so much. Even with social distancing and masks, it's "only" a ~98% effectiveness rate. Its far better to stay at home when possible. 

*Masks can say they're n95, but aren't actually. I'm not sure on the specifics but I believe the CDC does the guidelines so you should read up on them to make sure any n95 masks are actually up to that standard. 

Edit: I realize now this was posted almost a year ago. But information and advice is important nonetheless 

Dont.  It’s a year old.  More a demonstration. Of the ability of the internet to track a history of thinking.   I thought some things in feb2020 that turned out to be totally wrong.  The screw of knowledge turns.

[Blade of Grass]

Gonna lock this cause it’s obviously very out of date. 
Please use the COVID mega thread