Rate My NAS Plan

[artkingjw]

Hello,

 

I’m new to the world of home servers so I’m looking for someone to check my homework. I was inspired by the Brian’s Econonas 2019 build.

Dear Mods: if this is better suited for the New Builds and Planning forum, please move it there.  

 

1. Budget & Location

I’m located in Australia.  My parts choices are based on what I’ve been able to find at my local store and I prefer to use commonly available parts. Budget of AU$700 (EDIT: ~ US$470) without drives. Open to small upgrades over time.

 

2. Use Case

NAS for home file storage servicing 4 home users. Plex (if possible, eventually transcoding 3 x 1080p streams with ease). Resilio Sync (very important to me). SabNZB.

Probably going with unRAID. (unlikely Plan B = Windows Server).

Will be deployed with 5 X 8TB (2 of which are parity) drives and a 500 Gb cache SSD. Will eventually upgrade to 8 X 8 TB (2 of which are parity) drives and a 500 Gb mirrored cache + SSD for Plex metadata. Hoping it will last me 5-10 years.

I want to experiment with running a Windows VM on this (among other tinkering), to potentially consolidate this NAS with my mom’s PC. But I haven’t looked too deeply into this aspect yet. Also, Folding@Home?

This will sit in our home office with very tight space – the case I’ve selected is the biggest it can be. Silence is appreciated, but direct HDD cooling is paramount during hot weather (easily 40 deg C or 104 deg F). Dust resistance appreciated.

 

3. Parts List

Case: Antec P101 Silent ($135)

CPU: Ryzen 3200G ($145)

Mobo: ASUS B450 Prime ($149)

RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 8Gb ($69)

PSU: Corsair RM650x ($169)

TOTAL (before unRAID license, SATA cables and PCIE to SATA card): $667.

 

P.S. Any recommendations for a good quality PCIE to SATA card are appreciated. 

 

Looking forward to your feedback. Thanks guys.

[Bombastinator]

Im not seeing how this has any advantage over an old dell or something, except maybe extra sata.

A 3200g is a 3770 except slower.  The case alone is $135.  What if you shelled out a couple hundred for an old business machine and put a sata6 card in then filled it with hard drives?  Uglier, sure, but half the price.

[artkingjw]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Im not seeing how this has any advantage over an old dell or something, except maybe extra sata.

A 3200g is a 3770 except slower.  The case alone is $135.  What if you shelled out a couple hundred for an old business machine and put a sata6 card in then filled it with hard drives?  Uglier, sure, but half the price.

Hi Bombastinator, thanks for the suggestion. I do not mind 'ugly' as long as dust is managed and drives are securely mounted. 

 

I did briefly consider this option at the start, but was not aware of any business style system with the space and ventilation I require? Could you point me in a direction? Some keywords to search for perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

EDIT: Update: I've had a look at the main models dumped by government and corporate offices - they all don't fit the bill in terms of 1) drive capacity and 2) required cooling. Let me know if you know of any models I should keep an eye on. 

[Jarsky]

2 hours ago, artkingjw said:

a 500 Gb mirrored cache + SSD for Plex metadata.

dedicated cache i can guarantee is a waste of $$$ under UnRAID.  Also in UnRAID, it is only a write cache. 

Also if you do have a cache,  you can still create a folder on it for the Plex Metadata, so no need for a seperate SSD for this.  

 

I *do* have a cache in mine, but it makes no different at all really. Whats more useful, is I installed ZFS, and configured 2 NVMe drives into a ZFS mirror. 

I then create a dataset for my Docker & VM images, and my docker & virtual machine disks go in those respectively. I also have a dataset on there for my Plex metadata. 

[artkingjw]

1 hour ago, Jarsky said:

dedicated cache i can guarantee is a waste of $$$ under UnRAID.  Also in UnRAID, it is only a write cache. 

Also if you do have a cache,  you can still create a folder on it for the Plex Metadata, so no need for a seperate SSD for this.  

 

I *do* have a cache in mine, but it makes no different at all really. Whats more useful, is I installed ZFS, and configured 2 NVMe drives into a ZFS mirror. 

I then create a dataset for my Docker & VM images, and my docker & virtual machine disks go in those respectively. I also have a dataset on there for my Plex metadata. 

Ah. Well I have a spare SSD at the moment. So I'll just use it as a cache drive for the first few weeks as I migrate data over. I'm sure that will make life easier I suspect. 

 

I'm watching Gamers Nexus and Level1Tech's NAS build videos now. I didn't think of using ZFS in the way you mentioned. I'll keep it in mind! Thanks. 

[Jarsky]

59 minutes ago, artkingjw said:

Ah. Well I have a spare SSD at the moment. So I'll just use it as a cache drive for the first few weeks as I migrate data over. I'm sure that will make life easier I suspect. 

 

I'm watching Gamers Nexus and Level1Tech's NAS build videos now. I didn't think of using ZFS in the way you mentioned. I'll keep it in mind! Thanks. 

It will only  make life easier if your drives arent capable of 100MB/s and you're transferring less data than the size of your cache. With the cache enabled it will fill the cache first to the configured free minimum, and then spill over onto the data drives. A mover script clears the cache on a schedule but the data in the cache will be unprotected by your parity until you run the mover operation to move it. 

 

It is actually recommended by LimeTech & other users that you do not enable the cache until after your initial move. 

[Jarsky]

P.S here is my UnRAID configuration

You can see in the dashboard the 2 NVMe drives show as unassigned that are done in ZFS

 

 

But you can see here theyre in a zpool, the zfs datasets and an example of the VM configuration (Docker is configured similarly)

 

 

[Bombastinator]

7 hours ago, artkingjw said:

Hi Bombastinator, thanks for the suggestion. I do not mind 'ugly' as long as dust is managed and drives are securely mounted. 

 

I did briefly consider this option at the start, but was not aware of any business style system with the space and ventilation I require? Could you point me in a direction? Some keywords to search for perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

EDIT: Update: I've had a look at the main models dumped by government and corporate offices - they all don't fit the bill in terms of 1) drive capacity and 2) required cooling. Let me know if you know of any models I should keep an eye on. 

Required cooling? It’s a NAS. It’s a box of hard drives with just enough. Cpu t run the sata and networking.  There is much in the way of cooling to do.  As for drive bays the old stuff has more drive bays than the new stuff unless you want some sort of workstation thing.  I read “home use”.   If you’ve got heavy cooling requirements and need more than 6 drives or something it’s not really home use class I guess.

[artkingjw]

4 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Required cooling? It’s a NAS. It’s a box of hard drives with just enough. Cpu t run the sata and networking.  There is much in the way of cooling to do.  As for drive bays the old stuff has more drive bays than the new stuff unless you want some sort of workstation thing.  I read “home use”.   If you’ve got heavy cooling requirements and need more than 6 drives or something it’s not really home use class I guess.

Thanks for clarifying. I'll keep an eye out on older chassis then.

 

I feel like I should provide some context for some my apparently exorbitant cooling requests. 

 

I currently run a WD EX4. This was the first summer it had 4 drives (Ironwolf) in it, previously it had 2. The NAS sits in the home office (aka. store room with a computer and printer) near our network switch (we do not have ethernet wiring around this old house). The room is usually the 3rd coolest in the house but can get stuffy with a lack of ventilation. No, putting the NAS in the living or the dining room is not an option. No, we are not getting an AC for this room, not that we use AC much anyway.

 

On a 30 deg C day, the hottest drives run at 59-62 deg C depending on load. On a 35 deg C day, the hottest drives thermal throttle at 65 deg C under light load. I disassembled the EX4 for a clean and made sure the fan was working - it definitely is. The cooling just isn't enough. My short term solution is to point a stand fan straight at the box and just blast it 24/7. But the drives still run too hot when temperatures go above 35 deg C. A NAS that has to be turned off half the time for 4-5 months of the year is junk and not fit to serve me and my household. 

 

I hope this clarifies things. 

[AbsoluteFool]

1 hour ago, artkingjw said:

Thanks for clarifying. I'll keep an eye out on older chassis then.

 

I feel like I should provide some context for some my apparently exorbitant cooling requests. 

 

I currently run a WD EX4. This was the first summer it had 4 drives (Ironwolf) in it, previously it had 2. The NAS sits in the home office (aka. store room with a computer and printer) near our network switch (we do not have ethernet wiring around this old house). The room is usually the 3rd coolest in the house but can get stuffy with a lack of ventilation. No, putting the NAS in the living or the dining room is not an option. No, we are not getting an AC for this room, not that we use AC much anyway.

 

On a 30 deg C day, the hottest drives run at 59-62 deg C depending on load. On a 35 deg C day, the hottest drives thermal throttle at 65 deg C under light load. I disassembled the EX4 for a clean and made sure the fan was working - it definitely is. The cooling just isn't enough. My short term solution is to point a stand fan straight at the box and just blast it 24/7. But the drives still run too hot when temperatures go above 35 deg C. A NAS that has to be turned off half the time for 4-5 months of the year is junk and not fit to serve me and my household. 

 

I hope this clarifies things. 

More fans will not help you pull down the temperature if your room is cooking at 30C..

 

Sure they might create a breeze over the drives, but the temperature will still raise. The only real way to get good cooling is to remove the heat from the room which the system is stading.. A primitive and not bullet proof way to do this is to put a floor fan in the middle of the door way blowing the air out.

[artkingjw]

8 hours ago, AbsoluteFool said:

More fans will not help you pull down the temperature if your room is cooking at 30C..

 

Sure they might create a breeze over the drives, but the temperature will still raise. The only real way to get good cooling is to remove the heat from the room which the system is stading.. A primitive and not bullet proof way to do this is to put a floor fan in the middle of the door way blowing the air out.

You are correct. The temperatures will still rise, and on a hot 35 deg C day, the drives will still be hot. But they won't be as hot. I acknowledge that unless I can cool the room down, the drives will run hot on a hot day, basic physics. I have tried your solution before, although I used a stand fan. The idea didn't work because the hallway outside the room is also just about as warm as the office. I did not notice a difference in temps. Direct airflow over the EX4 gave the best results, and did not block a doorway.  Having the stand fan blow nearby the EX4 (ie. next to the unit instead of onto it directly) yielded some temperature decrease.  

 

I am fairly confident that the cooling solution I have planned for this build (ie fans actively cooling all drives) will help because it works on the Define R5 PC in my room which is usually the hottest in the house during summer. Mind you the drives won't be at 35 deg C on a 35 deg C day, but at least they shouldn't cook at 65 deg C. The main goal is to keep drive operating temps below 60 deg C, most of the time. 

 

FYI for what its worth, The not very scientific experiment I did was: I stacked 4 drives (not NAS drives though, various older 4 TB, and 3 TB desktop drives) in sequence in my R5 (ie no empty drive slots in between them). 40 deg C day, no AC in the hottest room of my house. Did file transfers between the drives for an hour and a half. The hottest disk settled at 48 deg C with fans on high, 50 deg C with fans on low. This is not the same as having 8 x 8 TB NAS drives stacked altogether, but is at least some indication that my plan is sound. 

 

My explanation for these results is that HDDs don't produce enough heat to alter the temperature of the air in a room enough (short of some localized hot spots perhaps) to matter. ie. the problem is maximizing the transfer of heat from the drives to the room air and NOT the transfer of heat away from the room. Secondary to that is the circulation of air around to room to remove hot spots.  

[ShureBob]

You can buy cheap NAS in aus for around $300, very compact and quiet mine lives next to the modem and even looks stylish, just chuck in a spare HDD or even go all out and get a large server drive or something.

[Jarsky]

I have the same issue with cooling here in New Zealand (Auckland) as well in summer. Currently its getting up to around 30-32C in my area most days. My hard drives in my server are around 35C while the nvme drives are a toasty 50-65C. I just keep my server in a room that has fairly good flow (near my garage), and have 2 x 140mm fans & 4 x 120mm fans all pushing air out of the case. The best thing you can do with an ATX setup at home in these heats really is just to get it out of the case asap (as opposed to rackmounts where you typically want a front/back push/pull config).  Really i've found a fan in that room not to really make any distinguishable difference though, as long as its not stuck in an enclosed space. 

[Bombastinator]

On 1/31/2020 at 1:38 PM, artkingjw said:

Thanks for clarifying. I'll keep an eye out on older chassis then.

 

I feel like I should provide some context for some my apparently exorbitant cooling requests. 

 

I currently run a WD EX4. This was the first summer it had 4 drives (Ironwolf) in it, previously it had 2. The NAS sits in the home office (aka. store room with a computer and printer) near our network switch (we do not have ethernet wiring around this old house). The room is usually the 3rd coolest in the house but can get stuffy with a lack of ventilation. No, putting the NAS in the living or the dining room is not an option. No, we are not getting an AC for this room, not that we use AC much anyway.

 

On a 30 deg C day, the hottest drives run at 59-62 deg C depending on load. On a 35 deg C day, the hottest drives thermal throttle at 65 deg C under light load. I disassembled the EX4 for a clean and made sure the fan was working - it definitely is. The cooling just isn't enough. My short term solution is to point a stand fan straight at the box and just blast it 24/7. But the drives still run too hot when temperatures go above 35 deg C. A NAS that has to be turned off half the time for 4-5 months of the year is junk and not fit to serve me and my household. 

 

I hope this clarifies things. 

35c ambient is pretty hot.  Fair enough.

[artkingjw]

9 hours ago, ShureBob said:

You can buy cheap NAS in aus for around $300, very compact and quiet mine lives next to the modem and even looks stylish, just chuck in a spare HDD or even go all out and get a large server drive or something.

mate that's exactly what I did haha. I got the WD EX4 for something like 200 AUD on eBay. Look how it turned out...

 

All premade NAS units look like they lack cooling to me. Drives are tightly packed with a weak fan at the back. Unless you've got a different experience with Qnap/Synology? 

 

 

[ShureBob]

50 minutes ago, artkingjw said:

mate that's exactly what I did haha. I got the WD EX4 for something like 200 AUD on eBay. Look how it turned out...

 

All premade NAS units look like they lack cooling to me. Drives are tightly packed with a weak fan at the back. Unless you've got a different experience with Qnap/Synology? 

 

 

Yeah, i have a Qnap NAS and you're right, it does have a tiny little fan but every time i have checked on the temp its been sitting at about 30c but its also dead quiet and energy efficient.

[artkingjw]

8 hours ago, ShureBob said:

Yeah, i have a Qnap NAS and you're right, it does have a tiny little fan but every time i have checked on the temp its been sitting at about 30c but its also dead quiet and energy efficient.

magical Qnap fan... maybe the WD fan just sucks hard (or... not hard enough as it were.. ba dum tss). Or maybe its just my house/location way west of Sydney. 

 

30c is about the coolest I've ever seen my drives run myself.