Deliberate bricking, the Sonos way.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

You are recycling the old speakers are they not?

 

Considering most people would probably use it till it breaks and then toss it in a landfill id say that giving an incentive to actually take it to a recycling center or ship it to them to recycle for free.

 

I dont see how you can say its worse for the environment?

They are not paying for return shipping, nor are they providing packaging to do so. They are not checking to see if you are recycling the device or just slapping it in the nearest bin or lay-by. What they are doing is preventing a perfectly good device from continuing a useful life. It could be used in another room, passed on to a friend, family member or a local charity. Instead it ends up as more electronic waste.

[Scheer]

Just now, Phill104 said:

They are not paying for return shipping, nor are they providing packaging to do so. They are not checking to see if you are recycling the device or just slapping it in the nearest bin or lay-by. What they are doing is preventing a perfectly good device from continuing a useful life. It could be used in another room, passed on to a friend, family member or a local charity. Instead it ends up as more electronic waste.

They actually are paying for the return shipping, but they said the fuel used to transport it to them is less environmentally friendly and the recommend you take it to a local recycler.

 

Not sure if they would provide you packaging though... probably not. 

[RonnieOP]

2 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

They are not paying for return shipping, nor are they providing packaging to do so. They are not checking to see if you are recycling the device or just slapping it in the nearest bin or lay-by. What they are doing is preventing a perfectly good device from continuing a useful life. It could be used in another room, passed on to a friend, family member or a local charity. Instead it ends up as more electronic waste.

The link you provided clearly says they will pay for the consumer to ship it to them to recycle. " customers are welcome to ship it back to Sonos at our expense with prepaid labels."

 

And if someone decided to toss it in a landfill instead of recycle it then you need to complain about the person dumping it in a landfill. not the company telling you to recycle it.

 

If i dump used motor oil in the yard you wouldnt blame castrol...youd blame me.

[mr moose]

25 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

You are recycling the old speakers are they not?

 

Considering most people would probably use it till it breaks and then toss it in a landfill id say that giving an incentive to actually take it to a recycling center or ship it to them to recycle for free.

 

I dont see how you can say its worse for the environment?

There is no guarantee it will get recycled, they get their 30% discount then the product gets bricked and then it could go anywhere after that (There is no stipulation for recycling).  Given those who can recycle already do and those who don't care wont,  it has very little reason to increase recycling on that score.  What it does guarantee is that broken ones don't get fixed and working ones don't get sold, both of those options are much more environmentally friendly than e-waste recycling. 

 

If they want it to be better for the environment, then the 30% discount should be dependent on the return of the unit or receipt that it was recycled at an e-waste facility.   Bricking alone only reduces the easier (read: a better carrot)  ways for people to recycle a product (repairing and/or selling).

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

The link you provided clearly says they will pay for the consumer to ship it to them to recycle. " customers are welcome to ship it back to Sonos at our expense with prepaid labels."

 

And if someone decided to toss it in a landfill instead of recycle it then you need to complain about the person dumping it in a landfill. not the company telling you to recycle it.

 

If i dump used motor oil in the yard you wouldnt blame castrol...youd blame me.

They don’t ship it in all regions, check the terms on their website.

 

The point is, if it was not bricked you would not need to dump it.

 

If instead Sonos said to take the working unit to any of our listed charities and send the receipt electronically to us for a discount then I am sure many people would do just that.

[RonnieOP]

Just now, mr moose said:

There is no guarantee it will get recycled, they get their 30% discount then the product gets bricked and then it could go anywhere after that (There is no stipulation for recycling).  Given those who can recycle already do and those who don't care wont,  it has very little reason to increase recycling on that score.  What it does guarantee is that broken ones don't get fixed and working ones don't get sold, both of those options are much more environmentally friendly than e-waste recycling. 

 

If they want it to be better for the environment, then the 30% discount should be dependent on the return of the unit or receipt that it was recycled at an e-waste facility.   Bricking alone only reduces the easier ways for people to recycle a product (repairing and/or selling).

But your issue should be with the people who decide to toss it in the landfill. not the company who are incentivizing and telling you to recycle.

 

Alot of E Recycling places dont give you a receipt. So that wouldnt really work for a lot of people anyway.

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

 

 

And if someone decided to toss it in a landfill instead of recycle it then you need to complain about the person dumping it in a landfill. not the company telling you to recycle it.

 

This here is the reason:

Just now, Phill104 said:

 

The point is, if it was not bricked you would not need to dump it

 

If it isn't bricked then it can be sold on or reused elsewhere which is better to the environment than conventional recycling.  Bricking literally serves no purpose other than to prevent it from entering the used market.

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, Phill104 said:

They don’t ship it in all regions, check the terms on their website.

 

The point is, if it was not bricked you would not need to dump it

Point is....you dont have to brick it. Nobody is forced to take part in the program. If i elect to do this how can i blame anyone but myself for doing it?

 

Makes zero sense to bash Sonos for this.

 

 

[mr moose]

Just now, RonnieOP said:

Point is....you dont have to brick it. Nobody is forced to take part in the program. If i elect to do this how can i blame anyone but myself for doing it?

 

Makes zero sense to bash Sonos for this.

 

 

As we said before , the problem is it is disingenuous.   They are promoting a falsehood about the environmental aspects by giving people a discount on the condition the unit is bricked (which actually does not help the environment).

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, RonnieOP said:

Point is....you dont have to brick it. Nobody is forced to take part in the program. If i elect to do this how can i blame anyone but myself for doing it?

 

Makes zero sense to bash Sonos for this.

 

 

Not zero.  Perhaps not as much as is being said though.  I kinda like @mr moose’s statement.  They could get all the complainers off their back if they did it that way.  Win win.

[RonnieOP]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

As we said before , the problem is it is disingenuous.   They are promoting a falsehood about the environmental aspects by giving people a discount on the condition the unit is bricked (which actually does not help the environment).

if you recycle it...how does it hurt the environment though?

 

If i recycle it I know its been recycled. If i sale it and the next week someone breaks it and tosses it in the trash thats worse for the environment.

 

 

Also one thing that hasnt been put into consideration is...what if the speaker isnt in any condition to where anyone would buy it? I dont see anything in the article saying the speaker has to be in great condition. So if you have a busted speaker thats broken this would be great to get a discount and make sure its recycled.

 

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

if you recycle it...how does it hurt the environment though?

 

If i recycle it I know its been recycled. If i sale it and the next week someone breaks it and tosses it in the trash thats worse for the environment.

 

 

It depends on how things get recycled.

 

 The Patriot Act talked at length about this issue specifically regarding “fast fashion” which works a bit differently but has similarities.
 

 the “recycling” of a lot of fast fashion stores was to send it to Africa where it mostly just gets burned because Africans don’t like stained clothes with holes in them either.

[mr moose]

Just now, RonnieOP said:

if you recycle it...how does it hurt the environment though?

There are three ways to recycle, 1. fix what is broken. 2. sell the product  and 3, recycle through e-waste recycling.  1 and 2 are much better for the environment than 3. By a long margin.  bricking the unit (for a 30% discount) prevents the two easiest and most environmentally friendly actions from happening. thus the whole goal of this discount is not save the environment but to sell more new units and have less old units in the used market.

 

Just now, RonnieOP said:

If i recycle it I know its been recycled. If i sale it and the next week someone breaks it and tosses it in the trash thats worse for the environment.

 

 

That is a minority scenario likely to only happen accidentally.   It is way more probable (in orders of magnitude), that someone will buy it and use it either as a working product or for parts to fix their other one.  Either way that is still largely better for the environment than conventional recycling.

 

 

[Blademaster91]

4 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

if you recycle it...how does it hurt the environment though?

 

If i recycle it I know its been recycled. If i sale it and the next week someone breaks it and tosses it in the trash thats worse for the environment.

 

 

Why recycle it if it doesn't need to be? Sonos is encouraging people to recycle their devices by having the hardware bricked when it doesn't need to be.

And how do I know if Sonos is really having the units recycled, or are they just having them dumped in a landfill?

[RonnieOP]

Just now, mr moose said:

There are three ways to recycle, 1. fix what is broken. 2. sell the product  and 3, recycle through e-waste recycling.  1 and 2 are much better for the environment than 3. By a long margin.  bricking the unit (for a 30% discount) prevents the two easiest and most environmentally friendly actions from happening. thus the whole goal of this discount is not save the environment but to sell more new units and have less old units in the used market.

 

That is a minority scenario likely to only happen accidentally.   It is way more probable (in orders of magnitude), that someone will buy it and use it either as a working product or for parts to fix their other one.  Either way that is still largely better for the environment than conventional recycling.

 

 

Yea everything we are speaking of is just "what abouts".

 

Which means its a good thing that people have an option to do it. they arent forced.

 

 

[mr moose]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

 or are they just having them dumped in a landfill?

To be fair I am not willing to go quite that far,  however their current position certainly indicates they care for profits more than the environment.

[RonnieOP]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

Why recycle it if it doesn't need to be? Sonos is encouraging people to recycle their devices by having the hardware bricked when it doesn't need to be.

And how do I know if Sonos is really having the units recycled, or are they just having them dumped in a landfill?

Thats a good question. I cant speak for what Sonos does as far as recycling.

 

as to why would someone do it.....well thats up to the person. People do things for a bunch of different reasons.

 

Which is why I think its a good idea to give people options. They can pick what to do and why they want to do it.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Yea everything we are speaking of is just "what abouts".

 

Which means its a good thing that people have an option to do it. they arent forced.

 

 

 

No they aren't forced, but they do have a 30% discount as a carrot and being told it is better for the environment.

[RonnieOP]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

No they aren't forced, but they do have a 30% discount as a carrot and being told it is better for the environment.

Because it can be good for the environment. So you have the option to do something good and get a discount.

 

Are there cases where this doesnt make sense? of course.

Are there cases where it does make sense? of course.

 

So its an option. If someone doesnt like it they arent forced to use this option.

 

 

[Blademaster91]

12 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Thats a good question. I cant speak for what Sonos does as far as recycling.

 

as to why would someone do it.....well thats up to the person. People do things for a bunch of different reasons.

 

Which is why I think its a good idea to give people options. They can pick what to do and why they want to do it.

I agree at least they still have a choice, but since Sonos can block a unit from accessing their servers, pretty much bricking it, it would have me hesitant buying any used Sonos speaker.

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

To be fair I am not willing to go quite that far,  however their current position certainly indicates they care for profits more than the environment.

Yeah idk maybe that is too far, but I would rather see the speakers get re-sold as refurbished than bricked.

[Founders]

Sonos is pretty abhorrent. Not only are they taking advantage of their customers but they're taking extraordinary measures to maintain their artificially inflated prices in the market. There are much better options out there, there's no need to give them any further business given their business practices.

  

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

if you recycle it...how does it hurt the environment though?

It's certainly much better for the environment than intentionally bricking what would be a perfectly good item on the second hand market. But in order to recycle anything other resources are still utilized during the process.

6 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

If i recycle it I know its been recycled. If i sale it and the next week someone breaks it and tosses it in the trash thats worse for the environment.

If an item still works either try to find another use for it or sell it. There's really no reason to send something off to a recycling center if someone somewhere can still use it.

 

 

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Because it can be good for the environment. So you have the option to do something good and get a discount.

 

Are there cases where this doesnt make sense? of course.

Are there cases where it does make sense? of course.

 

So its an option. If someone doesnt like it they arent forced to use this option.

 

 

 

It's only good for the environment if it actually persuades someone to recycle something that can't be reused that they would otherwise not have.  The point we are making is that that would be exceptionally rare compared to the number of devices that could have been reused but due to this would now be relegated to e-waste recycling only. 

 

If Sonos were genuine about the environment,  the 30% discount would be applicable to anyone who could prove their old one did not go into landfill.  That could be a receipt from a recycling centre (both conventional and refurbishers) or by sending it back.   Bricking it (necessary for the discount) does not do anything to encourage people to recycle in any way.

 

EDIT: just to point this out,  Sonos know which devices are active, so proving you didn't throw it in landfil is as simple as it showing up on the network as an active device.

[RonnieOP]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

 Bricking it (necessary for the discount) does not do anything to encourage people to recycle in any way.

If someones taking it to a recycling center why would they care if its bricked?

 

Look im not saying everyone should do this. A lot/most of people shouldnt. It just makes zero sense to bash Sonos for giving people the option.

 

Its like bashing a car dealership for offering to buy your car for $1k. Its an offer. you dont have to take it. You could go sell it for more if you want. Its just an option.

 

Ive taken alot of working things to the recycling center. Could i have sold them? I couldve but wasnt worth the time and effort. These days even giving things away becomes a hassle lol. So im glad I have the option of just recycling them instead of just tossing them in the trash.

[Bombastinator]

The issue is not recycling so much as that they’re marketing something AS recycling when it really isn’t.  They’re doing it for a different reason than they are claiming.  They COULD do both at the same time without even costing themselves anything.  They just didn’t bother.  That is I think why people are irritated.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

If someones taking it to a recycling center why would they care if its bricked?

 

Because reselling it is better for the environment than conventional recycling.  By a long margin

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Look im not saying everyone should do this. A lot/most of people shouldnt. It just makes zero sense to bash Sonos for giving people the option.

When sonos are incentivizing customers to brick a unit making it less recyclable on the predisposition that it is better for the environment then they deserve bashing.

 

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Its like bashing a car dealership for offering to buy your car for $1k. Its an offer. you dont have to take it. You could go sell it for more if you want. Its just an option.

 

If Ford offered existing owners a 30% discount on a new car if they crushed their current car, would you argue that was better for the environment?   Buying anew car when you have a perfectly serviceable car is not environmentally friendly. Same with sonos, incentivizing people to brick a perfectly serviceable product with a 30% discount has nothing to do with the environment.  Optional or not.

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Ive taken alot of working things to the recycling center. Could i have sold them? I couldve but wasnt worth the time and effort. These days even giving things away becomes a hassle lol. So im glad I have the option of just recycling them instead of just tossing them in the trash.

 Given this,  how does sonos 30% to brick the unit make recycling any more prolific? you already take things to the recycle centre, you already aren't interested in selling.  Bricking the unit doesn't make you any more environmentally vigilant.