PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[chocolatekarma]

8 hours ago, Juular said:

It's an old SKU, EoL and out of production for some time so i suspect that they're actually selling Focus GM but who knows. In any case, as long as there's a full warranty on it, 40CAD is definitely a steal.

Thanks.  I bought it.  I figure it has to be better than an EVGA BR.

[Nozyspy]

"Seasonic PRIME based units experience shutdowns with RTX3080/3090 (and possibly RX6900 XT) GPUs, especially ones with unlocked power limit like FE and ASUS Strix. It is recommended, if going with such units, to overprovision wattage, 1kW for RTX3080 and 1.2kW for RTX3090"

 

Would a PRIME TX-1000 Titanium be sufficient for an Asus 3080Ti Strix? I'm kinda shocked that the wattage requirement for the PSU would be so high when the PC would never get close to using the full capacity (without crazy overclocking that is).

 

 

[Juular]

18 minutes ago, Nozyspy said:

Would a PRIME TX-1000 Titanium be sufficient for an Asus 3080Ti Strix?

It's not clear, i would advice against buying Seasonic Prime PSUs if you plan to use RTX3080/3090 series GPUs or something high-end from next generations, which would likely be even more transient heavy. But it's not strictly power draw related issue in this case, more of design flaw in Seasonic protection circuit, because most other PSUs work fine, 750W for RTX3080, 850W for RTX3080Ti/3090.

[Nozyspy]

15 hours ago, Juular said:

It's not clear, i would advice against buying Seasonic Prime PSUs if you plan to use RTX3080/3090 series GPUs or something high-end from next generations, which would likely be even more transient heavy. But it's not strictly power draw related issue in this case, more of design flaw in Seasonic protection circuit, because most other PSUs work fine, 750W for RTX3080, 850W for RTX3080Ti/3090.

Ugh

 

I currently have a Corsair AXi 860 and was planning on getting either another Corsair unit or something from Seasonic as i have heard they are very good quality. The problem with Corsair now is that their PSU lineup seems way more complicated than it was when i did my last build 6 years ago. Its basically alphabet soup and i have no idea what does what. I bought Corsair last time around because they claimed the AXi had something like had 'digital power delivery' for 'smoothness' (where as now they use inline capacitors in their cables?) and power usage could be monitored via Corsair Link.  Also according to the OP Corsair units share the same problems as they are based on Seasonic ones.

 

Is the Asus ROG Thor any good by comparison? Their 20% off Cablemod cables deal sounds nice...

[Juular]

2 hours ago, Nozyspy said:

ts basically alphabet soup

Hardly ... compared to EVGA for example, besides, you have a tier list right there, just look at models which are in tier A.

2 hours ago, Nozyspy said:

Also according to the OP Corsair units share the same problems as they are based on Seasonic ones.

Only one lineup, AX, not AX-i or anything else. And it's discontinued anyway so you likely wouldn't be able to buy it anyway.

2 hours ago, Nozyspy said:

Is the Asus ROG Thor any good by comparison?

850W one is Focus, so apparently it doesn't have the same issues. 1200W one is Prime. THOR II all models except 1600W are Prime too, maybe they're fixed since they're fresh, maybe not, we don't know. In any case, with custom cables there shouldn't be an issue anyway because most of them lack the 12V v-sense wire, but i'd really rather buy Corsair HX for example.

[Nozyspy]

Quote

Only one lineup, AX, not AX-i or anything else. And it's discontinued anyway so you likely wouldn't be able to buy it anyway.

I honestly don't even understand what the differences are between Corsairs high end PSU's now. is it just something to do with the 80+ rating?

 

You'll have to be gentle with me, i know very little in general about PSU's, reading through some reviews a lot of it is electrical gobbledegook to me. I'm not even sure what the difference is between single rail and multi rail! I probably researched it a long time ago and have since forgotten haha.

 

Quote

850W one is Focus, so apparently it doesn't have the same issues. 1200W one is Prime. THOR II all models except 1600W are Prime too, maybe they're fixed since they're fresh, maybe not, we don't know. In any case, with custom cables there shouldn't be an issue anyway because most of them lack the 12V v-sense wire, but i'd really rather buy Corsair HX for example.

I see, so custom cables could solve the problem with any of the PSU's anyways since if they lack that wire the PSU isn't getting the 'signal' to trip the switch so to speak?

[Juular]

1 hour ago, Nozyspy said:

I honestly don't even understand what the differences are between Corsairs high end PSU's now. is it just something to do with the 80+ rating?

AX/AX-i series are supposed to be high-end 80+ Titanium. But while AX-i is indeed good albeit very expensive, AX ended up being worse than HX aside for efficiency because Seasonic couldn't or didn't want to customize their platform for Corsair demands, so it's just stock Prime TX. But it's now discontinued anyway so it doesn't matter.

HX/HX-i is 80+ Platinum. The only difference is iCUE / monitoring capability. And this series is not only practically the best of Corsair current offerings (disregarding 500$ AX1600i) but ones of the best PSUs overall.

RM/RM-x/RM-i are 80+ Gold fully-modular. RM has cheaper capacitors and no in-cable caps, both fine, especially if it's cheaper than RM-x. RM-i has iCUE.

TX-m are 80+ Gold semi-modular. Old, 2017' version was a bit loud, new 2021' version is fine.

CX/CX-m/CX-F series are the real mess tho. CX is better than CX-m electrically aside for modularity. And Corsair for some reason decided to make CX-F RGB which didn't sell, so they've discontinued it now. CX is apparently discontinued too.

CV is another weird series, sub 650W are group regulated, kinda refreshed / slightly improved version of VS, i.e not something you really should use with builds using a dedicated GPU. But 650/750W versions are better, kinda like CX-m but non-modular.

 

Then there are also different revisions of CX-m, TX-m, RM and RM-x but they're overall close to each other performance/quality wise so it doesn't really matter much.

 

Anyway, in most cases you look either for CV 650W, CX-F (while still available), TX-m, RM, RM-x or HX.

 

PS: Also, apparently there's also CS refresh coming, unless they rename it to something else.

1 hour ago, Nozyspy said:

I see, so custom cables could solve the problem with any of the PSU's anyways since if they lack that wire the PSU isn't getting the 'signal' to trip the switch so to speak?

Kinda, yes.

[wisnoskij]

Hello, little confused about the list. How can a PSU be in the A tier, be golden, but have an note next to the name saying how it randomly shuts off if you try to use it with a graphics card? Why would that not be in the trash tier?

Looking for a PSU for a 12700K with some GC to be added in latter.

[Juular]

6 hours ago, wisnoskij said:

How can a PSU be in the A tier, be golden, but have an note next to the name saying how it randomly shuts off if you try to use it with a graphics card? Why would that not be in the trash tier?

New (past 2018y) Seasonic Focus revisions do not exhibit this problem. Seasonic Prime Gold / Platinum units sub 850W are based on Focus, and such do not exhibit this problem either. Then, it is assumed that Seasonic Prime 1000W and higher do not exhibit this problem too, but i've seen some reports with 1kW units tripping too, so it's not really clear and i'll move 1kW units to low priority too.

 

In both cases, the footnote in normal priority subtier is there just to provide information about the issue that other versions of these models have.

 

If you need a PSU recommendation please create a dedicated thread.

[Nozyspy]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:53 PM, Juular said:

AX/AX-i series are supposed to be high-end 80+ Titanium. But while AX-i is indeed good albeit very expensive, AX ended up being worse than HX aside for efficiency because Seasonic couldn't or didn't want to customize their platform for Corsair demands, so it's just stock Prime TX. But it's now discontinued anyway so it doesn't matter.

HX/HX-i is 80+ Platinum. The only difference is iCUE / monitoring capability. And this series is not only practically the best of Corsair current offerings (disregarding 500$ AX1600i) but ones of the best PSUs overall.

RM/RM-x/RM-i are 80+ Gold fully-modular. RM has cheaper capacitors and no in-cable caps, both fine, especially if it's cheaper than RM-x. RM-i has iCUE.

TX-m are 80+ Gold semi-modular. Old, 2017' version was a bit loud, new 2021' version is fine.

CX/CX-m/CX-F series are the real mess tho. CX is better than CX-m electrically aside for modularity. And Corsair for some reason decided to make CX-F RGB which didn't sell, so they've discontinued it now. CX is apparently discontinued too.

CV is another weird series, sub 650W are group regulated, kinda refreshed / slightly improved version of VS, i.e not something you really should use with builds using a dedicated GPU. But 650/750W versions are better, kinda like CX-m but non-modular.

 

Then there are also different revisions of CX-m, TX-m, RM and RM-x but they're overall close to each other performance/quality wise so it doesn't really matter much.

 

Anyway, in most cases you look either for CV 650W, CX-F (while still available), TX-m, RM, RM-x or HX.

That is awesome thank you! I understand their product lineup a lot better now. Do you think the inline capacitors on the Corsair cables gives their PSU's any advantage over others, or is it just a gimmick?

[Geo007]

On 10/23/2019 at 12:15 PM, LukeSavenije said:

• Seasonic | Focus [OneSeasonic refreshes] GX / GM / PX / SGX - Prime [8] GX (<=750W / =>1000W) / (Ultra) Gold =>1000W / PX =>1000W / (Ultra) Platinum =>1000W / TX =>1000W / (Ultra) Titanium =>1000W / PRIME Snow Silent Gold [550W] - Connect

...and for [8]

On 10/23/2019 at 12:15 PM, LukeSavenije said:

[8] Seasonic PRIME based units experience shutdowns with RTX3080/3090 (and possibly RX6900 XT) GPUs, especially ones with unlocked power limit like FE and ASUS Strix. It is recommended, if going with such units, to overprovision wattage, 1kW for RTX3080 and 1.2kW for RTX3090, or power-limit the GPU, or performing a 'dirty' fix of disconnecting a pin of 12V V-sense wire from PSU-side connector of 24-pin motherboard cable (courtesy of Jonny Guru). Units based on post-2018 revisions of Seasonic Focus platform and majority of units by other OEMs are not affected.

Since this was written in Oct. 2019, and it is now Dec 2021, would the Seasonic PRIME based units still be experiencing shutdowns?

[--SID--]

21 minutes ago, Geo007 said:

Since this was written in Oct. 2019

RTX 30x0 and RX 6xxx weren't available in Oct '19. The issues occured since launch of that cards in Sept '20

23 minutes ago, Geo007 said:

would the Seasonic PRIME based units still be experiencing shutdowns?

Nothing has proven otherwise.

[Geo007]

Thanks.

[Nozyspy]

Has the HXi series been discontinued? I cant seem to find it on Corsair's website, only the HX series. The only version of the HXi i can find for sale is the 1200w model.

[chocolatekarma]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:08 PM, Juular said:

It's an old SKU, EoL and out of production for some time so i suspect that they're actually selling Focus GM but who knows. In any case, as long as there's a full warranty on it, 40CAD is definitely a steal.

I got it today, and you were 100% right.  I got a Focus GM-550.  Pretty hard to beat for $40 Canadian.

[--SID--]

23 hours ago, Nozyspy said:

Has the HXi series been discontinued? I cant seem to find it on Corsair's website, only the HX series. The only version of the HXi i can find for sale is the 1200w model.

 

[R3ap3r_999]

Pretty useful information ngl 

 

[Nozyspy]

On 12/20/2021 at 9:46 PM, --SID-- said:

 

Hmmm interesting. Corsair's own website no longer lists the HXi though? :S

[Dogzilla07]

Raijintek Ermis New SFX (80mm fan), 550/450W PSUs from Raijintek, on the cybenetics pics left is 550W, right is 450W

 

https://www.raijintek.com/en/products_detail.php?ProductID=174

 

[serhatr]

Asus rog strix shouldn't be on a tier. My "850w" unit shuts down under like 650-700w power draw. Runs quiet but it's a bummer that I can't get full power from it. Since return or refund is kinda bs in my country I decided to keep it and only running a 3070 and a 3060 at around 120-140w each on it. Also it comes with less pcie cables than there is pcie slots on the unit. Classic overpriced cable selling move that happens with every single manufacturer...

[Juular]

39 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Raijintek Ermis New SFX (80mm fan), 550/450W PSUs from Raijintek, on the cybenetics pics left is 550W, right is 450W

Looks cheap. And double forward, so no higher than tier C. I'd wait at least for Cyben to publish a report tho.

12 minutes ago, serhatr said:

Asus rog strix shouldn't be on a tier. My "850w" unit shuts down under like 650-700w power draw.

With these RTX3070 and RTX3060 unlocked or what ? In what workloads ?

It's probably just Seasonic being Seasonic. It's based off Seasonic Focus, which supposedly had previous similar problems with Vega fixed in 2018, but it's still unclear how really it fares with Ampere. Although reports that it doesn't work, like yours are rare, in contrast with Seasonic Prime based units.

[serhatr]

11 minutes ago, Juular said:

Looks cheap. And double forward, so no higher than tier C. I'd wait at least for Cyben to publish a report tho.

With these RTX3070 and RTX3060 unlocked or what ? In what workloads ?

It's probably just Seasonic being Seasonic. It's based off Seasonic Focus, which supposedly had previous similar problems with Vega fixed in 2018, but it's still unclear how really it fares with Ampere. Although reports that it doesn't work, like yours are rare, in contrast with Seasonic Prime based units.

I tried putting 2x 3070 TI and 1x 3070 cards on it at around 670w total power draw on software for mining and it kept restarting randomly. when I reduced power limits it restarted less frequently like once every 3-4 hours but I wasn't happy with that so I unplugged the 3070 and it still kept restarting with 2x 3070ti cards at around 550w + the rest of the system so now I have a 3070 at 120w and 3060 at 140w on it for mining. rest of the system is just idle and max draw should be like 70-80w.

[Juular]

1 minute ago, serhatr said:

2x 3070 TI

Well, each of these cards depending on workload would have around 350-400W of transients, 700-800W total for GPUs alone, which isn't quite 850W still but i'm not confident in saying that there are many other PSUs that would be able to sustain that. Although, this PSU being Seasonic, with problems they constantly have around high-transient GPUs probably contributed to the result you're observing.

[serhatr]

21 minutes ago, Juular said:

Well, each of these cards depending on workload would have around 350-400W of transients, 700-800W total for GPUs alone, which isn't quite 850W still but i'm not confident in saying that there are many other PSUs that would be able to sustain that. Although, this PSU being Seasonic, with problems they constantly have around high-transient GPUs probably contributed to the result you're observing.

Thanks for your reply. They were pulling around 230-235w each power limited while mining. So technically it should've been fine but yea. Also everyone says not to use over %80 of max power of a psu idk why that is. Why do we pay for the %20 if we can't use it safely

[Juular]

33 minutes ago, serhatr said:

They were pulling around 230-235w each power limited while mining.

That's average sustained power draw. Transients are way higher with Ampere. To the point when they're high enough to just drain secondary side capacitors on PSU so there's no power anymore until the next switching cycle, because of that voltage drops, PSU or motherboard/GPU VRM detects that and shuts down (UVP) even if power draw still isn't high enough to trip neither OCP or OPP.