[SPOILERS] Avenger: Endgame discussion

[Lathlaer]

2 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

1) The completely moronic Deus Ex Machina that was her coming across the ship that is thousands of light years away from anything important.

The same could be said about Guardians of the Galaxy coming across Thor's destroyed Asgard ship in Infinity War. 

 

One would have to assume that at some point Tony and Nebula had to put an SOS signal and the ship being what it is (not Earth tech), it probably had a range of one or two galaxies.

 

2 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

3) Her sudden complete inability to go supersonic or even an appreciable fraction thereof in atmosphere, thus giving Thanos the reaction time to smack her out of the air and destroy the McGuffin to transport the McGuffin holding the stones back to their requisite times.

4) Her sudden susceptibility to being smacked out of the air even though 2 seconds ago she swiss-cheesed a fucking space dreadnought.

5) Her complete inability to harm Thanos even though she just swiss-cheesed a fucking space dreadnought.

Most of it isn't even new to Cpt. Marvel. EVERY superhero has moments when at one point writers give them some ability only to disregard it later because it's convenient. Ofc you would only go after Danvers because this is the cool thing to do now but let me give you some other examples.

 

1. Thanos, who could sometimes use the stones and sometimes couldn't or for some reason wouldn't. Let's face it, if he used reality stone more often there wouldn't even be a movie.

2. Doctor Strange who wouldn't use his Time Stone during a normal fight even once

3. Spider-Man being able to catch a speeding car or a falling car with his bare hands and sometimes being shown weaker than Cpt. America

4. Tony Stark and his suit which could take Thor's hammer to the chest in the Avengers but would fall apart from a kick of some not even that much overpowered dude in Iron Man 3

5. Thanos who could physically beat Hulk into submission with his bare fists and yet couldn't one shot Steve Rogers

6. Steve Rogers who could somehow take on Thanos in limited capacity but in his own movies had one on one fights with some algierian bozo and not being able to finish the fight in like 5 seconds.

7. Thor who could summon the Bifrost with his weapon but ofc used it only once in previous movie when it was convenient.

 

And these are only examples from MCU. Superhero movies are PLAGUED with situations where one person is given some kind of ability and there are scenes just to show it off when it fits the script only to be omitted when the script calls for something else.

 

The classic example is Spider Sense in Toby Maguire versions. Showing how he can sense a mosquito falling and how everything is in slow motion for him because he senses it all and his reaction speed is so great but he gets clocked to the head on regular basis by things that shouldn't have even hit him.

 

To be honest I find it funny that these are the things you are going for when arguing that she somehow ruined the movie - most people were afraid that she will be this one woman army rendering the rest of the team pointless, doing everything on her own, killing Thanos with her bare fists etc. and here you are, complaining that they tamed her a bit in order to not make it a one woman show

 

If anything, Wanda came closer to killing him than any other hero there

[Bouzoo]

14 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

To be honest I find it funny that these are the things you are going for when arguing that she somehow ruined the movie - most people were afraid that she will be this one woman army rendering the rest of the team pointless, doing everything on her own, killing Thanos with her bare fists etc. and here you are, complaining that they tamed her a bit in order to not make it a one woman show

It is even worse when you consider that:

1. Professor Hulk didn't go all out which is a different beast than regular Hulk

2. Thor who summoned the strongest lightning bolt ever on his sister in Asgard decided there was no reason to go full on Zapdos on Thanos

 

Both of them are one man armies, but they got nerfed af as well, considering their comic counterparts, and I can understand that. For the sake of movies, and she got the same treatment. 

 

I mean just look at Juggernaut in Deadoopl, my boy got buchered more than anyone. 

[Lathlaer]

5 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

For the sake of movies, and she got the same treatment. 

Yeah it's one thing when the script calls for situations tailor made for one superhero (because it's their stand alone movie) and a whole other beast when you need to somehow compromise and fit multiple superpowered beings fighting a common enemy. 

 

I mean, if we are talking about going through spaceships like butter - why don't we talk about one Scott Lang who did exactly the same and he was extremely underutilized during the final battle.

[Bouzoo]

2 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

I mean, if we are talking about going through spaceships like butter - why don't we talk about one Scott Lang who did exactly the same and he was extremely underutilized during the final battle.

He did bitch slap though that flying worm though. Unexpected but a pleasure none the less. 

And he didn't expand in Thanos ass! The internet was wrong! 

[dalekphalm]

Some of the reactions in this thread, unfortunately, don't surprise me.

 

Personally I loved the movie - thought it was fantastic. Was it filled with fan service? Hell yes. But not in a bad way (Besides, Movie #22 wrapping the arc up deserves some good ole fan service anyhow).

 

It was definitely one of the better MCU movies, despite the odd macguffin, etc. There were some total surprises, for me. First was the 5 year time jump. I was expecting something, but not 5 years. It was a nice little twist.

 

The Thanos time travel part was also pretty great, and an excellent way to get Thanos back into the movie after surprise killing him almost immediately.

 

I also in particular loved the massive army assembled at the end, via the Sorcerers. I'd have liked to see a bit more of Doctor Strange being a badass, but we saw some pretty awesome stuff from most of the characters. Captain Marvel was fun - though conveniently missing a few times. She wasn't too OP, like people were worried about. She's able to go toe to toe against non-gauntlet Thanos (and actually likely would beat him in a prolonged fight), which is perfectly okay. Thor probably could too.

 

Frankly this movie was a love letter to Tony and Steve - so the other cast members were inevitably going to get less screen time.

 

All in all, extremely pleased by this film.

[Bouzoo]

28 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I also in particular loved the massive army assembled at the end, via the Sorcerers.

That part gave me goosebumps. We knew it was coming but it was done better than expected imo. 

[Lathlaer]

35 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Thor probably could too.

Yeah, if he turned from Big Lebowski to Point Break again

[Bouzoo]

18 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

Yeah, if he turned from Big Lebowski to Point Break again

That reference had me crying in cinema. 

[dalekphalm]

38 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

That part gave me goosebumps. We knew it was coming but it was done better than expected imo. 

Yeah it was almost a bit of a Tolkien Lord of the Rings/Return of the King vibe going on. It was so satisfying to see the different armies from the various factions and races come together. 

[Bouzoo]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Yeah it was almost a bit of a Tolkien Lord of the Rings/Return of the King vibe going on. It was so satisfying to see the different armies from the various factions and races come together. 

It was the climax of a 10 year 22 movie setup. I'm not sure what can top that. 

[EldritchMoose]

It was worthy.

 

Like, I'm sitting here a day after I saw it and I'm still buzzing from the excitement. I'm 35 years old and I haven't felt this way about a movie since I saw Jurassic Park on opening day while I was still rocking single digits.

 

There is just so much to love about this movie. It was everything I hoped it would be and more. My favourite parts:

 

- Seeing the team dealing with the loss they suffered. It felt raw, it was hard to watch as Captain America desperately tried to keep up the facade that there is a positive here. It felt familiar to see Thor deal with his own depression in the exact same way I did 12 years ago - with an unhealthy dose of games, alcohol and junk food and accompanied by a handful of people he felt safe to be around. Tony lashing out after his return by saying out loud what he couldn't articulate on the ship. Poor guy must have been bouncing between "I failed the universe." and "Maybe we would have made it if the others had listened to me." for weeks.

- Captain Marvel emphasizing that her help was needed on a cosmic scale. I'm very glad that they didn't choose to limit her abilities, but rather have her availability be limited by her sense of duty.

- Some amazing jokes at exactly the right times. The movie is an emotional rollercoaster that knows when to pull at the heartstrings and when to poke at the funny bone. "America's Ass" probably is my favourite out of all of them.

- Frigga. She knows bad shit is going to happen and she knows exactly what the Thor in front of her needs to give him a foothold to pull himself out of his depression: He needs to be told that he is still worthy, that he still has a purpose.

- The call-backs to other MCU films were great. Cap winding up in an elevator with Rumlow and a bunch of Hydra agents (and then subverting the expected beatdown by referencing Secret Empire).

- "On your left." I knew as soon as it was Cap, Thor and Iron Man against Thanos that the cavalry was going to arrive when Thanos seemed to have the upper hand. Never in a million years would I have imagined it to be this badass only to be topped off by the most teased pairing of words in cinema since 2012.

- Rescue. It's about time that we actually got a more comic-accurate Pepper. She was one of the few things that made me actively dislike the Iron Man films up to this point.

- Vision was one of my favourite MCU characters, so seeing him die twoce at the end of Infinity War was not fun for me. Seeing angry Wanda exact her revenge on Thanos to the point where he has to resort to nuking her from lower orbit was incredibly satisfying.

- Captain Marvel not being the Deus Ex Machina that I feared she might be, given her power level. She showed up when she had to and had a great 1v1 fight with Thanos. I loved the fact that he hit her in the face only for her to completely no-sell it and that Thanos showed his pragmatism by directly (and successfully) adapting his strategy. Thanos is far more than just a physical powerhouse and you need more than just raw power to beat him. I also loved that she didn't "overstay her welcome." Don't get me wrong, I love the character and the possibilities for the franchise going further (Cosmic Marvel is the shit, IMO), but this film is the culmination of the storylines told across 21 movies and 10 years. I am very happy that it stands as a celebration of all that came before, and not just have the new hotness steal the show at the last minute. 

- Valkyrie on a pegasus. 'Nuff said!

- Tony Stark having gone from unrepentant selfish A-hole to saving the universe. His journey was one of a selfish man learning to become selfless for the greater good, and it came together in the best possible way.

- The entirety of the denouement, with everybody (including the kid from Iron Man 3) honouring the fallen hero and Cap getting the happy ending he never dreamed he would have.

 

I could go on for quite some time. I will say, though, that I know one particular scene will probably be criticized to death. Yes, it was gratuitous, yes it was pandering and no, it probably wasn't necessary because the film would have run just fine without it. You know what it was, though? It was still badass to see every single female hero that is currently alive in the MCU do what they're good at.

The MCU is many things for me, but above all it is a way to enjoy the stories that I read as a kid on screen as an adult. For decades I have had to endure yelling from studio executives that "Comic book movies make no money!" only for that to be turned into an entertainment subgenre that includes 8 titles in the top 20 highest grossing films of all time. After that, the yelling shifted to "Okay, but it needs to be well-known heroes like Batman and Superman!" Both of whom are playing second fiddle to the likes of Guardians of the Galaxy and even Ant-man in terms of tickets sold. I hope that scenes like this one can show that it's not important what skin colour or gender the main character has because in the past 3 years, we've seen Wonder Woman become the 10th highest grossing film of 2017, Black Panther the second highest-grossing film of 2018 behind Infinity War and currently Captain Marvel as either the highest grossing in 2019 or second highest if you read this after the opening weekend for Endgame has passed. 

As a kid, I wanted to read about Spider Man and Batman because they were Spider Man and Batman, not because they were men. It's 2019, why is it so hard to learn that we're a few decades past the point where having a certain actor star is enough to sell a movie?  

[Bouzoo]

4 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

i've been thinking about what the Ancient One mentioned. now that all five stones are effectively dust from this point on, does the universe.... starts fraying? o_o

As far as we know cap returned all of them? 

 

Edit: oooh I see. Good point. 

[Bouzoo]

3 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

yeah but thanos broke "the future"'s stones right at the start of the movie ._.

Yeah I realised. Edited post. 

[spwath]

My main problem was it was too long, for an action movie. I recently watched Laurence of Arabia, and that was 3 hours 40 mins long, but that wasn't too long, because important things and character evolution were happening. But for a marvel movie, 3 hours is too long. Felt like first 2/3 were just to set up last 1/3

[Tristerin]

In other news, this is on Yoda app

[GamerDude]

I think that after Endgame, MCU is due for a letdown, with newer 'heroes' like Captain Marvel taking the lead, I doubt I'd be as interested in Marvel movies henceforth. I will watch Black Panther 2, Dr Strange 2, GotG 3 (whenever it comes out) and Black Widow  and any of the 'oldguards' (as long as Capt Marvel isn't involved). I've always wondered about Scarlet Witch, why wasn't she given a movie of her own......she's powerful and I'd like to see her journey after Vision's death and the impact it has on her life (as long as Capt Marvel isn't in it.....again). She did make Thanos cry 'mama' when they fought in Endgame, that's enough of an endorsement for me!

 

DCEU may be what I'd be looking forward to......there's Wonder Woman 1984, an Aquaman sequel.....and I'm hoping for a return of Superman. DCEU may pick up the slack that Marvel's gonna drop if Capt Marvel's anything to go by. Yes, the first movie did well, but that was before all this Brie Larson hate, which I believe would impact her future movies (IF they get done that is). I don't think her 2nd movie's gonna do as well, certainly lost me as an MCU fan with regard to her movies. I find my liking or hating a movie or character is heavily influenced by the shenanigans of that actor involved, and try as I might, I simply cannot get myself to like Brie Larson.

[Guest]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:05 PM, Bouzoo said:

Oh, breaking the 4th wall? Now that would be something. 

Ryan Gosling should be cast as Adam warlock 

[Bouzoo]

17 minutes ago, floofer said:

Ryan Gosling should be cast as Adam warlock 

I don't think he has enough emotions for that role. 

[Rain7]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:03 AM, Bouzoo said:

Oh they had a sjw worthy scene with her at the end, don't worry about that. 

I find it hilariously ironic how the biggest sjw in the mcu has "binary mode" for her most powerful ability.

[Sauron]

On 4/24/2019 at 11:58 PM, Bouzoo said:

She is probably the strongest being in the movie, but then again, Thanos was able to beat the Hulk with bare fists, so he is still a monster either way. 

I think he may have been a bit too strong in the final battle, it's one thing to beat the hulk with fighting technique, it's another to stand up to iron man, captain america and thor at the same time, especially parrying the stormbreaker as it if were a rapier.

I mean, in infinity war, this happens:

[Bouzoo]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I think he may have been a bit too strong in the final battle, it's one thing to beat the hulk with fighting technique, it's another to stand up to iron man, captain america and thor at the same time, especially parrying the stormbreaker as it if were a rapier.

I mean, in infinity war, this happens:

 

It would be anti climactic to make him lose in 10 seconds. You gotta account for 6 stones that he has when he parries it. He could have easily used 1 stone to destroy Stormbreaker in that scene. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bouzoo said:

I don't think he has enough emotions for that role. 

Doesn’t matter he’s perfect.

 

on another note I really wanted to see hulk beat up Thanos. Prof. hulk is no-go

[Bouzoo]

5 minutes ago, floofer said:

Doesn’t matter he’s perfect.

 

on another note I really wanted to see hulk beat up Thanos. Prof. hulk is no-go

I can't imagine him as Adam. 

Why is prof. Hulk a no-go? That is his next step, they just jumped over why and when in time time skip. Normal Hulk never stood a change in 1v1. 

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

It would be anti climactic to make him lose in 10 seconds. You gotta account for 6 stones that he has when he parries it. He could have easily used 1 stone to destroy Stormbreaker in that scene. 

He doesn't have the stones at the beginning of the fight, he just holds thor off with his staff. Stormbreaker should be able to cut through that staff like butter. Yes, it would have been anticlimactic to have him get owned instantly, but there are plenty of ways they could have evened the odds without making him that strong - even just ebony maw helping him would have made a big difference. Either way it's just a nitpick, the fight was still very enjoyable.

[Skiiwee29]

11 hours ago, GamerDude said:

I think that after Endgame, MCU is due for a letdown, with newer 'heroes' like Captain Marvel taking the lead, I doubt I'd be as interested in Marvel movies henceforth. I will watch Black Panther 2, Dr Strange 2, GotG 3 (whenever it comes out) and Black Widow  and any of the 'oldguards' (as long as Capt Marvel isn't involved). I've always wondered about Scarlet Witch, why wasn't she given a movie of her own......she's powerful and I'd like to see her journey after Vision's death and the impact it has on her life (as long as Capt Marvel isn't in it.....again). She did make Thanos cry 'mama' when they fought in Endgame, that's enough of an endorsement for me!

 

DCEU may be what I'd be looking forward to......there's Wonder Woman 1984, an Aquaman sequel.....and I'm hoping for a return of Superman. DCEU may pick up the slack that Marvel's gonna drop if Capt Marvel's anything to go by. Yes, the first movie did well, but that was before all this Brie Larson hate, which I believe would impact her future movies (IF they get done that is). I don't think her 2nd movie's gonna do as well, certainly lost me as an MCU fan with regard to her movies. I find my liking or hating a movie or character is heavily influenced by the shenanigans of that actor involved, and try as I might, I simply cannot get myself to like Brie Larson.

This is actually going to be explored about the Scarlet Witch in a new series on the Disney + streaming service. Many of the marvel characters are going to get an episodic show on the service to continue with.