Valve sued by Casino for illegal skin gambling and "Unfair Competition"

[LukeSavenije]

Just now, mr moose said:

The thing is the European bank isn't selling random items of value directly to the gamblers.

explain?

[mr moose]

Just now, LukeSavenije said:

explain?

Valve sells the items that are at the centre of this gambling issue.  Valves actually provides the item of value and the only place it can be used (in game). 

The European bank (or any reserve bank) only govern the value of currency, they do not sell it nor do they provide the sole location said currency can be used.

 

If valve put an end to the ability to trade items, then the whole gambling thing becomes moot. 

[LukeSavenije]

Just now, mr moose said:

Valve sells the items that are at the centre of this gambling issue.  Valves actually provides the item of value and the only place it can be used (in game). 

The European bank (or any reserve bank) only govern the value of currency, they do not sell it nor do they provide the sole location said currency can be used.

 

If valve put an end to the ability to trade items, then the whole gambling thing becomes moot. 

so with that logic i can sue any game for something they're actively working against?

 

it's not like valve tolerates skin betting

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

so with that logic i can sue any game for something they're actively working against?

 

it's not like valve tolerates skin betting

 

What do you mean actively working against?  If valve doesn't tolerate skin betting then why do they allow it? why do they even allow skins to be traded? 

[Blademaster91]

12 hours ago, mr moose said:

Not very hard, while they allow digital items to be traded they are not doing anything.

So take away item trading for everyone else that aren't using it to gamble? I don't like loot boxes at all but that really isn't fair to people trading items with friends. IIRC, Valve has tried to stop third party gambling sites before even though they aren't directly related with third party gambling and can't stop it unless loot boxes would be completely banned.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

So take away item trading for everyone else that aren't using it to gamble?

You can still trade Items, just make it so it has to be traded through a steam store.  Each item can be sold for the cost of a loot box key.  This would be enough proof from valves end that it is not gambling and that they do not support it.

 

Allowing trading of items outside of valves control is where the problems start.

Quote

I don't like loot boxes at all but that really isn't fair to people trading items with friends. IIRC, Valve has tried to stop third party gambling sites before even though they aren't directly related with third party gambling and can't stop it unless loot boxes would be completely banned.

See above.  A skin store run by valve could allow you to swap without being able to dictate the prices. Every item has the same value (the cost of a loot box key).

 

[Doobeedoo]

This is just funny. Never liked gambling but yeah, funny shit. 

[spartaman64]

this lawsuit is too late there was a time when valve wasnt doing anything/ somewhat encouraging skin gambling sites but now they issue cease and desist letters to them

[Thaldor]

On 4/25/2019 at 12:28 PM, mr moose said:

You can still trade Items, just make it so it has to be traded through a steam store.

If I have understood correctly, what the skin betting sites do is that they make an army of dummy accounts where "players" trade-in their bets and from which the winnings are handed over and all that is done via Steams API and within Steam. Hunting down those accounts isquite a lot as impossible as hunting down game hackers who buy a game multiple times from sales and gift it to their other accounts with which they cheat the game and when the account gets VAC banned, they just abandon it.

 

They could change the community marketplace so that there would be every item available with fixed prices and user dependable selling would then always be cheaper than the fixed priced item, but this would probably sway away every single game developer/publisher who uses lootboxes from the Steam because that would undermine the whole monetization aspect of lootboxes. It would solve many problems but at the same time Valve could just as well shoot their own kneecaps off.

[mr moose]

22 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

They could change the community marketplace so that there would be every item available with fixed prices

This is the crux of my suggestion.  Maybe I was a bit unclear (it's not easy trying to condense such ideas into a few sentences).  If you can buy every item for the cost of a key then loot boxes only exist as a lucky dip.  And that's what the game devs are arguing they are, some fun in the game.   This way people can trade, sell and buy and no gambling claims can be made.  It would also kill the gambling sites. 

[Thaldor]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This is the crux of my suggestion.  Maybe I was a bit unclear (it's not easy trying to condense such ideas into a few sentences).  If you can buy every item for the cost of a key then loot boxes only exist as a lucky dip.  And that's what the game devs are arguing they are, some fun in the game.   This way people can trade, sell and buy and no gambling claims can be made.  It would also kill the gambling sites. 

And I noted, it would also sway off every game publisher which uses lootboxes from the Steam to the competitors and probably would plummet Valves stock harder than Walletfront 2 did for EA. Also that community marketplace is probably one of the most profitable parts of Steam, basicly 0 costs and every single sale brings Valve 15% from what the seller makes (shareholders love that kind of stuff). So, even if that would fix many problems and the gaming community would love it to heavens, Valve could just as well shoot their kneecaps because that would go down to the history as one of the worst business decision ever made.

 

In other hand if Valve was forced with law to do that and at the same time every other platform and hopefully the whole gaming world, that would be completely different story.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Thaldor said:

And I noted, it would also sway off every game publisher which uses lootboxes from the Steam to the competitors and probably would plummet Valves stock harder than Walletfront 2 did for EA. Also that community marketplace is probably one of the most profitable parts of Steam, basicly 0 costs and every single sale brings Valve 15% from what the seller makes (shareholders love that kind of stuff). So, even if that would fix many problems and the gaming community would love it to heavens, Valve could just as well shoot their kneecaps because that would go down to the history as one of the worst business decision ever made.

So there we have, it's not in valves interest to actually do what they say they are. 

 

2 hours ago, Thaldor said:

In other hand if Valve was forced with law to do that and at the same time every other platform and hopefully the whole gaming world, that would be completely different story.

Agree.   A shame we need regulation and laws to stop people being pricks though.

[Drak3]

“Valve disrespecting old Indian tradition of ripping of people. Making us very sad.”

-Chief Crying Wolf, probably.

[Trik'Stari]

Good.

 

I'll support anything that ruins microtransactions, loot boxes or otherwise.