laptop MSI GT70 2PC Shutting Down while gaming, temps within normal ranges

[fallout_2077]

For the past couple weeks I have been experiencing predictable shut downs while playing demanding games and performing intensive tasks, the two prime examples being Blender 2.8 and Elite Dangerous (within minutes of loading a save). Until last night, I had presumed that all of those crashes were isolated to Windows, as I was able to run Blender and play games just fine in Linux... until last night, when I saw my first shut-down while playing Elite Dangerous. Linux can apparently handle Blender fine, but Elite failed at the same point as it does within Windows. The temps never exceed 70C for GPU and CPU, which make me think that if it is a overheating issue, it's more of a sudden thermal spike causing an overheating shut down. I experienced the exact same shut downs a few years ago with GTA V, but the problem was solved when I lowered the min/max CPU states in the power plan settings. The same can not be said this time around, however... I lowered the min/max states all the way to 60/65 respectively, with the shut downs ever present.

Before I was experiencing the predictable stream of shut downs, I was experiencing BSODs relating to memory management; these BSODs never happened during gaming and usually only happened shortly after powering the system on or while shutting it down, and usually only once a day. However, after running Windows' Memory Diagnostic Tool, no problems were found, and after several reseats of the RAM sticks, the problem went away. Within a day or so of clearing that error, those BSODs were replaced with predictable, albeit worse instantaneous shut downs, though about 10% of the time the system actually restarts like it's supposed to do. I ran MemTest86 overnight and it did not report any errors, so if there is something wrong with my RAM, Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool and MemTest86 are unable to find it.

 

I'm dumbfounded as to what the culprit could be; faulty sensors, a failing motherboard, CPU, or GPU, or is it my disconnected CPU heatsink-to-motherboard mount? I'm at  a complete loss, so whatever you fine, intelligent folks need to solve, or at least point me in the right direction of, my problem, please let me know and I'll gladly provide you with any and all info you need regarding the laptop.

[svegori1950]

It does sound a lot like overheating issue. Does your laptop fan sounds as usual? It also can be that the CPU heatsink loosened, but it is not very likely, unless You or someone else did something with it and didn't tighten it up properly.

[markr54632]

Sounds like a thermal issue. I have had weird shut downs like that before with dried or pumped out thermal paste. Sometimes the center of the die can not be making contact and the sensors dont pick it up. You could also have a thermal pad that has disintegrated causing the power delivery to overheat.

 

Other than that possibly a faulty power brick.

[fallout_2077]

4 hours ago, svegori1950 said:

It does sound a lot like overheating issue. Does your laptop fan sounds as usual? It also can be that the CPU heatsink loosened, but it is not very likely, unless You or someone else did something with it and didn't tighten it up properly.

My laptop fan sounds perfectly normal, with fan speeds well within the expected range while under load and during idle. And aside from that one mount that separated from the board/chassis, the other two mounts are fastened tightly to the heatsink.

 

2 hours ago, markr54632 said:

Sounds like a thermal issue. I have had weird shut downs like that before with dried or pumped out thermal paste. Sometimes the center of the die can not be making contact and the sensors dont pick it up. You could also have a thermal pad that has disintegrated causing the power delivery to overheat.

 

Other than that possibly a faulty power brick.

I had considered the thermal paste as a possible culprit, as sometimes when squeezing some out their is an initial bit of runniness, forcing me to either "pump" the plunger in an attempt to mix it within the tube or to mix in when it is out of the tube and on the chip. And their are one or two pads on both the GPU and CPU heatsinks that are split apart with a slight space. I may have some extra pads lying around, hopefully. And I bought a brand new power brick last week as my google searching led me to believe that power could be the issue, though following replacement the problem persists.

 

At the moment my suspicions lie on that one separated mount. Here are some images... an image is worth a thousand words, after all.

[markr54632]

That is not what pump out means at all. On bare die applications the thermal paste migrates to the edge of the die over time.

 

Tim does expire believe it or not. 

[fallout_2077]

8 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

That is not what pump out means at all. On bare die applications the thermal paste migrates to the edge of the die over time.

 

Tim does expire believe it or not. 

I had that thermal paste lying around for a few years... I bought it when I had to replace and upgrade the GPU in the laptop when the original failed. I knew that paste expired, I just didn't think it would expire so soon, though the runniness was a pretty dead giveaway that it was starting to show its age. So do you believe that the paste is a pretty strong possibility? As I stated above, the average temps during gaming and intensive tasks is 70C, with a max of 80C (the CPU gets a lot hotter than the GPU during these tasks). Could most, if not all, of my issues lie in the thermal compound, then? Should I even worry about fixing that mount?

[markr54632]

Maybe my screen isnt good enough, but I cant see where the mount is broken. If it is broken, then yes fix it. It will cause an issue. Plastic welding is ideal, if it is plastic.

 

Thermal pads and paste are cheap. Replace them at the same time.

[fallout_2077]

26 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

Maybe my screen isnt good enough, but I cant see where the mount is broken. If it is broken, then yes fix it. It will cause an issue. Plastic welding is ideal, if it is plastic.

 

Thermal pads and paste are cheap. Replace them at the same time.

It's a metal mount, and below it is a "hole". I'll have to take a closer look at the area again and see if there's any possible way for any epoxy to leak through to the other side of the board. If it did happen to leak, can epoxy damage the board? I judged that those mounts were soldered onto the board. I'll take the laptop apart shortly and snap some better photos.

[fallout_2077]

Here are more images of the laptop, detailing both the mount and the areas around the CPU & GPU to show what's going on those areas, including the condition and placement of the thermal pads. I uploaded these to Dropbox and shared the folder so they'd be easier to see. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vudn8qm8s8zuvjt/AAAQaOqDE-9GhjLAEn_nJ4sra?dl=0

[markr54632]

Fun stuff. I would pull the board out of the way, epoxy the mount back in and let it cure for a couple days. At your own risk of course.

 

The Tim and thermal pads are rough. Might as well replace them while you're in there.

[fallout_2077]

5 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

Fun stuff. I would pull the board out of the way, epoxy the mount back in and let it cure for a couple days. At your own risk of course.

 

The Tim and thermal pads are rough. Might as well replace them while you're in there.

Okay then, thanks for the advice! Is there any special kind of epoxy I should be on the look out for, or will any epoxy work? I've never worked with the stuff, so I know absolutely nothing about it.

[fallout_2077]

I found this vid showing JB Weld for electronics repair. Would this work to solve my problem? 

 

[markr54632]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:10 PM, fallout_2077 said:

I found this vid showing JB Weld for electronics repair. Would this work to solve my problem? 

 

Any advice is at your own risk of course, but just use an epoxy that is available local to you, works with plastic, and give it more cure time than it says on the box. Personally I would use plastic bonder.

[fallout_2077]

On 3/9/2019 at 2:52 PM, markr54632 said:

Any advice is at your own risk of course, but just use an epoxy that is available local to you, works with plastic, and give it more cure time than it says on the box. Personally I would use plastic bonder.

I bought the standard JB Weld that is shown in the vid (I bought it and applied it before I saw your response). It didn't work... It hardened, but the epoxy didn't bond well to the surface of the PCB. I bought a soldering iron to attempt that route, but I made another thread for advice on that before I travel down that road.