senheiser 6xx 5xx 58x

[Zeketo]

I am just wondering what are the differences between all these headphones?

xx-series reviews are hard to find since most of them are only sold on massdrop.

I am considering getting a good headphone so that I don't worry about it for anytime soon.

I had my hd598 for almost 3 years now and definitely happy with it.

The only problem is that it's not as comfortable as before.

I am thinking of getting an upgrade, and I am really leaning towards hd 700 even though its a bit pricey.

 

What do you think i should get? xx series or 700. 

HD700 is recommended by many streamers and youtubers basically everyone.

I personally really love that headphone but I am still not convinced spending that much on it.

 

I hear xx series are really good, but how good is it comparing to hd700?

[Turtle Rig]

These headphones are not made for youtube or games or streaming.  They are studio monitoring HP's.  This is what they use in professional studios so they get a flat sound "No EQ or enhanced sound"  You ge the sound the artist meant for you to hear.  I use mine for studio monitors also use my KRK's.  It wont give a exaugurated bass or high highs,, and deeper mids.. If your producing music the HD 650 is best for monitoring.  HD 700 has no difference really except for cosmetically.  Grab HD 650 and a HP amp would be nice as well.

[Zeketo]

how is hd 58x comparing to my old hd598.

All the reviews are saying hd58x is fire basically a little twist on hd660

[Turtle Rig]

4 minutes ago, Zeketo said:

how is hd 58x comparing to my old hd598.

All the reviews are saying hd58x is fire basically a little twist on hd660

You shouldn't notice a difference in sound quality from the HD 580 to the HD 650.  However people I talk to in the industry swear by the HD 650 as the sweet spot and right price for top notch studio monitoring and what not...  Getting HD 580 or HD 650 is pretty much the same sh*T except for cosmetic differences.  Also your using a AMP DAC as you said so the phones will sound how Sennheiser wanted them to sound for owners and what not.

[KaminKevCrew]

2 hours ago, Turtle Rig said:

These headphones are not made for youtube or games or streaming.  They are studio monitoring HP's.  This is what they use in professional studios so they get a flat sound "No EQ or enhanced sound"  You ge the sound the artist meant for you to hear.  I use mine for studio monitors also use my KRK's.  It wont give a exaugurated bass or high highs,, and deeper mids.. If your producing music the HD 650 is best for monitoring.  HD 700 has no difference really except for cosmetically.  Grab HD 650 and a HP amp would be nice as well.

It doesn't really matter what the headphones are 'made for' as headphones all produce sound. Different headphones have different sound signatures, but what they're designed for isn't really of prime importance. Not to mention, the HD650 is NOT a monitoring headphone. It's a listening headphone designed for people to enjoy music. Additionally, the HD700 and the HD650 have ENTIRELY different sound signatures, so no, it's not just a cosmetic difference. The HD700 is not that great of a headphone, and a lot of people hate it because it has a peak around 5khz (iirc) that a lot of people find impossible to deal with. 

 

The HD600/650 are listening headphones that have a neutral sound. This is not to be confused with a flat sound (which is what you want for monitoring). They have a focus on the mids, and are truly excellent headphones, but to really get the best out of them, you need something that packs some power, and I really wouldn't listen to them on much of anything other than an OTL tube amp, but those generally cost much more than the headphones themselves would.

 

2 hours ago, Turtle Rig said:

You shouldn't notice a difference in sound quality from the HD 580 to the HD 650.  However people I talk to in the industry swear by the HD 650 as the sweet spot and right price for top notch studio monitoring and what not...  Getting HD 580 or HD 650 is pretty much the same sh*T except for cosmetic differences.  Also your using a AMP DAC as you said so the phones will sound how Sennheiser wanted them to sound for owners and what not.

This is predominantly true.

[Turtle Rig]

41 minutes ago, KaminKevCrew said:

It doesn't really matter what the headphones are 'made for' as headphones all produce sound. Different headphones have different sound signatures, but what they're designed for isn't really of prime importance. Not to mention, the HD650 is NOT a monitoring headphone. It's a listening headphone designed for people to enjoy music. Additionally, the HD700 and the HD650 have ENTIRELY different sound signatures, so no, it's not just a cosmetic difference. The HD700 is not that great of a headphone, and a lot of people hate it because it has a peak around 5khz (iirc) that a lot of people find impossible to deal with. 

 

The HD600/650 are listening headphones that have a neutral sound. This is not to be confused with a flat sound (which is what you want for monitoring). They have a focus on the mids, and are truly excellent headphones, but to really get the best out of them, you need something that packs some power, and I really wouldn't listen to them on much of anything other than an OTL tube amp, but those generally cost much more than the headphones themselves would.

 

This is predominantly true.

Sweetwater recommends HD650 and HD700 for studio monitoring that wont break the bank or leave you without a kidney.  They have been in the business ever since I was 2 years old in 1979.  I've dealt with them for over 22 years.  They are a wicked sick company with amazing support and help you regarding anything audio based all the technical stuff.   I monitor with my KRK's and when I got my HP's to replace Sony ones I had I was blown away at how it sounded pretty much the exact same as my studio monitors . except of course theres no crazy bass,, but the exact HP bass, not too much not too little.  Depends what you throw at it.  The HD 650 and above have a flat response,  You can say their mids are tweaked etc etc,, But Im comparing a studio project from 1k studio monitors to the HD 650 and its sounds excellent on par with KRK as far as giving me that flat accurate sound.  I would highly recommend the audiophile to get these.  If your not that big of audiophile grab some HD 250 or HD 350 for under 100 dollars.

[KaminKevCrew]

1 hour ago, Turtle Rig said:

Sweetwater recommends HD650 and HD700 for studio monitoring that wont break the bank or leave you without a kidney.  They have been in the business ever since I was 2 years old in 1979.  I've dealt with them for over 22 years.  They are a wicked sick company with amazing support and help you regarding anything audio based all the technical stuff.   I monitor with my KRK's and when I got my HP's to replace Sony ones I had I was blown away at how it sounded pretty much the exact same as my studio monitors . except of course theres no crazy bass,, but the exact HP bass, not too much not too little.  Depends what you throw at it.  The HD 650 and above have a flat response,  You can say their mids are tweaked etc etc,, But Im comparing a studio project from 1k studio monitors to the HD 650 and its sounds excellent on par with KRK as far as giving me that flat accurate sound.  I would highly recommend the audiophile to get these.  If your not that big of audiophile grab some HD 250 or HD 350 for under 100 dollars.

While I've never dealt with sweetwater personally, they are absolutely an excellent company from everything I've heard. However, those recommendations are not great on their part. 

As you can see, from the measured output of a pair of both the HD650 and HD600, there is clearly a mid-bass hump, with a moderate bass-sub bass roll off. That is NOT FLAT. That is neutral.

 

Here is the measured response from an HD700. Clearly, there is a MASSIVE peak at 5khz. That's the exact reason that so many people do not like those headphones and find them incredibly difficult to listen to. (Again, NOT flat) If you think that the HD700 and HD650 only have "cosmetic differences" and sound the same, your ears are clearly not very particular about sound, or you're listening to the wrong music to be able to tell.

 

Additionally, just because a company suggests you buy something doesn't mean that you should. You don't know if Sennheiser pays to have those cans promoted. KRK speakers in general are not all that great, and you can spend FAR more than $1,000 on speakers (and headphones for that matter, which I've done - several times over.) So I really don't need you to tell me about what an "audiophile listens on" - I'm well aware. If the HD650 sound the same as your (relatively) low-mid range speakers, then they must have similar tuning. Not all that surprising, given that the monitors you're listening on are not going to be the flattest thing on earth. 

 

Regardless, to actually answer (I don't believe I've done that yet) the OP's question:

 

I would probably get the HD650 because it's far less offensive to the ears, and will also actually retain some resale value compared to the HD700, which almost nobody buys on the aftermarket. 

[Spuriae]

2 hours ago, KaminKevCrew said:

Here is the measured response from an HD700. Clearly, there is a MASSIVE peak at 5khz. That's the exact reason that so many people do not like those headphones and find them incredibly difficult to listen to. (Again, NOT flat) If you think that the HD700 and HD650 only have "cosmetic differences" and sound the same, your ears are clearly not very particular about sound, or you're listening to the wrong music to be able to tell.

 

Additionally, just because a company suggests you buy something doesn't mean that you should. You don't know if Sennheiser pays to have those cans promoted. KRK speakers in general are not all that great, and you can spend FAR more than $1,000 on speakers (and headphones for that matter, which I've done - several times over.) So I really don't need you to tell me about what an "audiophile listens on" - I'm well aware. If the HD650 sound the same as your (relatively) low-mid range speakers, then they must have similar tuning. Not all that surprising, given that the monitors you're listening on are not going to be the flattest thing on earth. 

 

Regardless, to actually answer (I don't believe I've done that yet) the OP's question:

 

I would probably get the HD650 because it's far less offensive to the ears, and will also actually retain some resale value compared to the HD700, which almost nobody buys on the aftermarket. 

Headroom's charts are uncompensated, and FR's are to be taken in comparison to other Headroom FR's and no others. Rtings' charts are compensated to their own unique target, which means they also should not be compared to any other FR charts unless you use a common point of reference for comparison. And then there's the critique of the Harman target's method of modelling speaker bass as including room resonances, which make headphones appear to roll off faster than they actually do...

 

The HD650 measures surprisingly flat on a flat coupler. "Neutral" depends on what compensation your FR measurements are taken with. How do you believe interactions with the ear should be factored into frequency response, given that all ears and heads are shaped slightly differently?

 

Agreed on the HD700. Olive's paper on High Q resonance audibility holds true for general test tracks, but not so much when taken with material that heavily activates those resonances. Treble spikes are painfully audible with sibilant samples. Maybe OP meant the HD800? I can't think of too many people who legitimately recommend the HD700.

 

For OP: HD6XX is HD650, HD58X is like a modded HD660S. The HD58X has better frequency response but still has hints of the 5kHz resonance since it and the HD660S use HD700 drivers. I'd probably go for the HD58X myself given the lower price, but it's really impossible to say which you'd prefer until you try them. Luckily both headphones have high resale value, so there isn't too much penalty even if you don't like them.

[KaminKevCrew]

15 hours ago, Nimrodor said:

Headroom's charts are uncompensated, and FR's are to be taken in comparison to other Headroom FR's and no others. Rtings' charts are compensated to their own unique target, which means they also should not be compared to any other FR charts unless you use a common point of reference for comparison. And then there's the critique of the Harman target's method of modelling speaker bass as including room resonances, which make headphones appear to roll off faster than they actually do...

 

The HD650 measures surprisingly flat on a flat coupler. "Neutral" depends on what compensation your FR measurements are taken with. How do you believe interactions with the ear should be factored into frequency response, given that all ears and heads are shaped slightly differently?

 

Agreed on the HD700. Olive's paper on High Q resonance audibility holds true for general test tracks, but not so much when taken with material that heavily activates those resonances. Treble spikes are painfully audible with sibilant samples. Maybe OP meant the HD800? I can't think of too many people who legitimately recommend the HD700.

 

For OP: HD6XX is HD650, HD58X is like a modded HD660S. The HD58X has better frequency response but still has hints of the 5kHz resonance since it and the HD660S use HD700 drivers. I'd probably go for the HD58X myself given the lower price, but it's really impossible to say which you'd prefer until you try them. Luckily both headphones have high resale value, so there isn't too much penalty even if you don't like them.

You are absolutely correct. 

 

It's been a while since I've been terribly involved in audio, so I apologize for my haste in using different FR graphs from people using differing weightings and measurement gear!

[Turtle Rig]

19 hours ago, KaminKevCrew said:

You are absolutely correct. 

 

It's been a while since I've been terribly involved in audio, so I apologize for my haste in using different FR graphs from people using differing weightings and measurement gear!

All is good... no worries.  I mean usually someone that wants a gaming HP is going to get USB HP's with 7.1 virtual surround.  If you are a audiophile and want to hear music the way the artist intended for you to hear and not all tweaked out ane EQed... You will get a flat response with HD 580 and 650 and 700 but make sure you use a HP amp or else the volume is going to not be so good and the clarity as well.

[Turtle Rig]

Just now, Turtle Rig said:

All is good... no worries.  I mean usually someone that wants a gaming HP is going to get USB HP's with 7.1 virtual surround.  If you are a audiophile and want to hear music the way the artist intended for you to hear and not all tweaked out ane EQed... You will get a flat response with HD 580 and 650 and 700 but make sure you use a HP amp or else the volume is going to not be so good and the clarity as well.  Better to use the 1'4 jack instead of that cheap mini jack that fits on your case or on board motherboard.  So you will need a external sound card that has 1'4 connection and HP amp,,,, not much around 120 to 200 dollars and what not.

 

[Max_Settings]

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

These headphones are not made for youtube or games or streaming.  They are studio monitoring HP's.  This is what they use in professional studios so they get a flat sound "No EQ or enhanced sound"  You ge the sound the artist meant for you to hear.  I use mine for studio monitors also use my KRK's.  It wont give a exaugurated bass or high highs,, and deeper mids.. If your producing music the HD 650 is best for monitoring.  HD 700 has no difference really except for cosmetically.  Grab HD 650 and a HP amp would be nice as well.

This is entirely wrong.

[Max_Settings]

On 1/26/2019 at 3:38 PM, Turtle Rig said:

Getting HD 580 or HD 650 is pretty much the same sh*T except for cosmetic differences.

Also totally wrong.

[Turtle Rig]

11 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Also totally wrong.

Difference is not noticeable by a normal person,, but if your a audiophile then I guess there is a difference,, I have never tried the HD 580 ,,,,, all I know is HD 650 and its a champ in the studio.  Your right the stats on HD 580 come in lesser.  It's not the same thing I didn't mean to say that.  Just like a HD280 will be different then a 500 dollars HD 650......So I shouldn't have talked without having experience or stats on me.  Thank you

[Max_Settings]

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

These headphones are not made for youtube or games or streaming.  

These headphones certainly can be used for Youtube or gaming, not my top pick for fun gaming, but certainly a good pick for competitive.

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

They are studio monitoring HP's.

None of these are studio monitoring headphones.

 

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

This is what they use in professional studios so they get a flat sound "No EQ or enhanced sound"

HD58X is never used in studios. HD600 and 650 are a rare sight in studios as they are too expensive and open backed. None of these are flat. HD600 is A shaped, HD650 is warm and dark, and HD58X is very warm. 

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

You ge the sound the artist meant for you to hear.

Please reference this thread I wrote about why this statement is wrong. 

 

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

It wont give a exaugurated bass or high highs,, and deeper mids..

HD650 has a mid bass hump and poor sub bass. HD600 has even worse sub bass but slightly less bloated mid bass. HD58X is really bloated mid bass. HD580 falls right between HD600 and HD650. 

 

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

If your producing music the HD 650 is best for monitoring.

Why? First of all no one monitors in HD650 as monitoring is almost always done in closed headphones and as I said before HD650 is rare for a studio headphone. 

On 1/26/2019 at 3:24 PM, Turtle Rig said:

HD 700 has no difference really except for cosmetically. 

WHAT???? HD700 is majorly different. Totally different driver. HD700 is a terrible headphone, very bloated bass, 6K peak, with a very muffled sound and no detail. They have nothing in common with the HD580, 58X, 600, or 650/6XX. The 700 driver is used in the HD660S, but it has a totally different diaphragm and driver housing which fixes most of the issues with the HD700. 

On 1/26/2019 at 3:38 PM, Turtle Rig said:

You shouldn't notice a difference in sound quality from the HD 580 to the HD 650.

Different sound signatures, you will notice the difference.

 

[Turtle Rig]

12 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

These headphones certainly can be used for Youtube or gaming, not my top pick for fun gaming, but certainly a good pick for competitive.

None of these are studio monitoring headphones.

 

HD58X is never used in studios. HD600 and 650 are a rare sight in studios as they are too expensive and open backed. None of these are flat. HD600 is A shaped, HD650 is warm and dark, and HD58X is very warm. 

Please reference this thread I wrote about why this statement is wrong. 

 

HD650 has a mid bass hump and poor sub bass. HD600 has even worse sub bass but slightly less bloated mid bass. HD58X is really bloated mid bass. HD580 falls right between HD600 and HD650. 

 

Why? First of all no one monitors in HD650 as monitoring is almost always done in closed headphones and as I said before HD650 is rare for a studio headphone. 

WHAT???? HD700 is majorly different. Totally different driver. HD700 is a terrible headphone, very bloated bass, 6K peak, with a very muffled sound and no detail. They have nothing in common with the HD580, 58X, 600, or 650/6XX. The 700 driver is used in the HD660S, but it has a totally different diaphragm and driver housing which fixes most of the issues with the HD700. 

Different sound signatures, you will notice the difference.

 

Ok you hate Sennheiser .... Also it is open back to get the best sound out of it.  So you say HD 700 is junk,  I take it you have used one ?

[Turtle Rig]

Just now, Turtle Rig said:

Ok you hate Sennheiser .... Also it is open back to get the best sound out of it.  So you say HD 700 is junk,  I take it you have used one ? Have you used a HD 650 ?  So the sweetwater people are lying when they say the 650 is good for studio monitoring.  I already had HPs not from them,, and just told them my gear and what not.... Those guys no there sh*T ,, Your not wrong mostly in what you say...  HP's are not just cosmetical difference there is a sound difference the audiophile can notice.  You have bought the 580 and 650 or are you going for charts.  What HP's are good then , for studio monitoring.  People still use the 100 dollar Sony HP;s from freakin 20 years ago in studios.  You say the bass is low,, but dont understand it cant exhagurate the bass,, if you play something that has a thump in it you will hear it,,,,, you want bass headphones buy beats by dre which are not monitoring HP's as they have EQed sound to make things sound juicy.  Its sound is exactly what my 2k studio monitors sound like except of course in a headphone,, so bass aint thumping like a 10" its great to listen to, to see exactly how your mix will sound for a braud range of listeners.

 

[Max_Settings]

4 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

Ok you hate Sennheiser .... Also it is open back to get the best sound out of it.  So you say HD 700 is junk,  I take it you have used one ?

I hate Sennheiser? Have you looked at my profile? And yes I have owned HD700 before. That is like the one headphone that the entirely audiophile community is in complete agreement is terrible.

[Turtle Rig]

I want your opinion on this and no I dont check profiles I check signatures......  So tell me what are good HP's 500 dollars or less for studio monitoring.

[Max_Settings]

Just now, Turtle Rig said:

I want your opinion on this and no I dont check profiles I check signatures......  So tell me what are good HP's 500 dollars or less ?

Do you think I said the HD6x0 series is bad? Not at all, they just aren’t what you said they are. I own every one of them and the HD800. As for good headphones under $500 there is a ton. Depends on what you want.

[Turtle Rig]

1 minute ago, Max_Settings said:

Do you think I said the HD6x0 series is bad? Not at all, they just aren’t what you said they are. I own every one of them and the HD800. As for good headphones under $500 there is a ton. Depends on what you want.

I want a flat response, for studio monitoring.  I dont need heavy bass or exchagurated bass,, just a flat response like my studio monitors in a headphone ya know.. $500 or less.
I mean I will game with them but stereo sound is good for me, so no virtual surround headphone,, stereo,, flat response and two corded for L and R  ,, like the 650 or 700.  What do you use now ?  What should I get for my purpose, since your the HP guru ?

[Max_Settings]

3 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

I want a flat response, for studio monitoring.  I dont need heavy bass or exchagurated bass,, just a flat response like my studio monitors in a headphone ya know.. $500 or less.
I mean I will game with them but stereo sound is good for me, so no virtual surround headphone,, stereo,, flat response and two corded for L and R  ,, like the 650 or 700.  What do you use now ?  What should I get for my purpose, since your the HP guru ?

Well for starters I see you didn't read my thread. What you want headphones for is not a real situation. You don't need neutral headphones for monitoring, you can monitor on literally anything as all you are doing is checking levels. When it comes to mixing music you don't mix on headphones, you do that on powered monitors. Headphones are only ever used to test a mix to hear it on something else other than monitors, and a lot of people also will check to see what it sounds like on a phone or laptop to get a broad range of what people will hear it on.

 

As for neutral not every studio EQs to dead flat, a lot use the Harman or Diffuse Field response curves which compensate for the ear's natural tendencies to hear certain frequencies louder. Also if you read my thread you would know that saying you want neutral because that is how the artist intended you to hear it is totally wrong. Please go read that first and then we can continue.

[Turtle Rig]

6 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Well for starters I see you didn't read my thread. What you want headphones for is not a real situation. You don't need neutral headphones for monitoring, you can monitor on literally anything as all you are doing is checking levels. When it comes to mixing music you don't mix on headphones, you do that on powered monitors. Headphones are only ever used to test a mix to hear it on something else other than monitors, and a lot of people also will check to see what it sounds like on a phone or laptop to get a broad range of what people will hear it on.

 

As for neutral not every studio EQs to dead flat, a lot use the Harman or Diffuse Field response curves which compensate for the ear's natural tendencies to hear certain frequencies louder. Also if you read my thread you would know that saying you want neutral because that is how the artist intended you to hear it is totally wrong. Please go read that first and then we can continue.

Ive been producing music for 22 years my friend,, I have studio monitors ,,,,,,,,   Ive just gotten to mastering with HPs then play them back,, just a go to ,, where I can check sounds since earphone will distinguish a bit.  This thread is funny your talking to a Sonar Platinum DAW user,, I think I know about studio monitors 22 years ago and always used them, I just never used headphones to mix and master.  So I want a flat sounding response HPs ,,, What do you recommend ?  I also read your posts as I read everyones.

[Max_Settings]

1 minute ago, Turtle Rig said:

Ive been producing music for 22 years my friend,, I have studio monitors ,,,,,,,,   Ive just gotten to mastering with HPs then play them back,, just a go to ,, where I can check sounds since earphone will distinguish a bit.  This thread is funny your talking to a Sonar Platinum DAW user,, I think I know about studio monitors 22 years ago and always used them, I just never used headphones to mix and master.  So I want a flat sounding response HPs ,,, What do you recommend ?  I also read your posts as I read everyones.

Ok before headphones how do you run your monitors? You don't just set them up and think they are flat right? That is not how that works. 

[Turtle Rig]

13 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Ok before headphones how do you run your monitors? You don't just set them up and think they are flat right? That is not how that works. 

I built a studio while back,,,,   There is no echo or anything going on,, its like how music is in your car or in a studio,, Spent 10k,, but its ok.  I hate labor...  In my sig it shows what I use for audio device and keyboard I use,,,...