Dice Listens To Its Player Base and Reverts BFV TTK

[DaMainMan]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Yes. I'm a semi-regular at the range and my shortest outtings are a few hours. I've had the chance to shoot an M16 full auto, and it's not hard to control. Spamming the trigger of a semi automatic is harder.

 

What CoD depicts (except BO2, 3, and 4) is what could be realistically be expected with the level of training you see with anything above the basic grunts. They do not act like laser pointers, if you try to spam full auto constantly, you will mag dump at medium ranges and not get the kill that often. The recoil is not grossly over exaggerated.

Well if thats true and you still think that CoD resembles a real-life full auto experience -> I dont think we will find common ground

[cj09beira]

On 12/17/2018 at 11:00 PM, Delicieuxz said:

 

Battlefield 5 still is a Fisher-Price Battlefield that isn't anything resembling hardcore, though. Actually, Bf5 is even more dumbed-down than Battlefield 1 was in a bunch of ways:

 

In Bf5 you can't choose when to throw out ammo or health etc, but can only throw it when a teammate in front of you needs it. Can't throw it around a corner or someplace in preparation where it will be useful. And, squads have been reduced to 4 players on PC when even Bf1 PC had 5-player squads. Also, now every player is a part-medic, reducing the value of the medic class and taking away the emphasis of playing well since everybody can pick everybody back up.

 

And then most of Battlefield 1's dumbed-down aspects are still present in Bf5: No physical bases, no physical vehicle spawns, a terrible revive/skip-revive system, no detailed server browser or custom server options...

 

Battlefield 5 is still defined as a very casual game and as an extremely over-simplified and gutted Battlefield, regardless of the TTK.

 

 

I hope that with Patrick Soderlund being fired from DICE over marketing and PR scandals related to Bf5, and with Patrick Bach having left the company shortly after the release of Bf1, that maybe DICE will start to find their way again. The company was entirely mismanaged under Patrick Soderlund going back all the way to when DICE sold themselves to EA shortly before the release of Battlefield 2 (which, by the way, is still, by far, the most popular Battlefield game, as % of total release-market profits and by player retention, that DICE have ever released). And Patrick Bach is someone who advocated for smaller, tighter maps and more CoD-style gameplay at DICE.

 

I've said that DICE was the worst thing to ever happen to Battlefield, the history of which has been all about selling-out, dishonest marketing, chasing sleezy dollars, and I think that those two people are a big part of why. With them gone, DICE might be able to steer itself towards something more credible. But, then again, EA might instead tighten their game-sucking grip on the studio and make it more subservient to corporate and focus-group-based design ideals.

completely agree, but just like to add that battlefield 2 was done mostly by a small studio that did a Major mod for battlefield 1942, few weeks before release they were all fired and the games become worse and worse after that.

On 12/18/2018 at 12:22 AM, Blademaster91 said:

The only thing "hardcore" in Battlefield 5 is there no longer being 3D and minimap spotting.

I played BF4 mostly as a medic, DICE nerfed it down to nearly being useless. Every class within the same squad being able to revive, and the medic class only being able to use SMG's against others with more powerful assault rifles and machine guns makes the medic class frustrating to use.

You can place down medic crates, when they aren't bugged disappearing into the ground people do pick them up but DICE ruined health crates turning an area effect item into you having to pick it up manually.

I know a lot of people don't like the detailed battlelog broswer based server browser, but its so much better than what DICE implemented in BF5 which feels like a rushed console UI that requires too many clicks to get through menus or join a game.

 

its almost like bf V has a split personality, from one side they removed 3d spotting, nerfed the medic class (which really needed it) etc. but on the other side they made everyone medics, really fast spawning, spawning on all squad members etc.

about the medic class, they shouldn't have all the best weapons, they should be a support class not a tank that can kill everything on their own, so i agree with the weapon limitations, but the fact that everyone can revive someone makes that nerf make no sense. medics should have to be protected to keep the ability of the squad and team to revive players, a longer spawn rate and spawning only on the base or on the second last flag you own would also make it so that game play gets more deep and interesting instead of this run and gun 

[PCGuy_5960]

6 hours ago, DaMainMan said:

I would have to disagree with you on that. Due to the significantly smaller map size and faster movements, engagements are more predictable and faster paced in CoD than in BF. Since recoil and other ballistic attributes are almost non-existant in CoD (as mentioned above), the emphathis is on speed and accuracy. Take this from someone who plays both series extensively and enjoys both for what they are (imagine this actually works haha).

I mean, yeah reaction time may be slightly more important in CoD than it is in Battlefield (considering that map knowledge and flanking are much more effective in Battlefield). But compared CS/Overwatch/Fortnite, I don't think reaction time is much more important. 

[Blademaster91]

7 hours ago, cj09beira said:

its almost like bf V has a split personality, from one side they removed 3d spotting, nerfed the medic class (which really needed it) etc. but on the other side they made everyone medics, really fast spawning, spawning on all squad members etc.

about the medic class, they shouldn't have all the best weapons, they should be a support class not a tank that can kill everything on their own, so i agree with the weapon limitations, but the fact that everyone can revive someone makes that nerf make no sense. medics should have to be protected to keep the ability of the squad and team to revive players, a longer spawn rate and spawning only on the base or on the second last flag you own would also make it so that game play gets more deep and interesting instead of this run and gun 

I don't mind the removal of 3D spotting so much, although there should be a more "casual" mode with spotting. But making everyone a medic is kind of dumb IMO, while limiting medics to only use short range weapons makes for a frustrating experience unless you just want to be a nice person and revive teammates because most people don't bother reviving while using other class kits.

Though I do agree the medic kit in other Battlefield games was on the OP side, I get that EA/Dice were encouraging more teamwork in BFV yet it doesn't work when people aren't using the medic class because the guns aren't effective against rifles and machine guns with a much longer range. The SMG's aren't really enough to protect yourself at times while going for a revive. I don't want a run and gun medic class, I want a balanced gun selection for medics so that I don't have to rely on teammates to protect me because an SMG can't hit someone at a distance firing at me with an LMG or scoped rifle.

[maartendc]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:36 PM, Blademaster91 said:

I don't mind the removal of 3D spotting so much, although there should be a more "casual" mode with spotting. But making everyone a medic is kind of dumb IMO, while limiting medics to only use short range weapons makes for a frustrating experience unless you just want to be a nice person and revive teammates because most people don't bother reviving while using other class kits.

Though I do agree the medic kit in other Battlefield games was on the OP side, I get that EA/Dice were encouraging more teamwork in BFV yet it doesn't work when people aren't using the medic class because the guns aren't effective against rifles and machine guns with a much longer range. The SMG's aren't really enough to protect yourself at times while going for a revive. I don't want a run and gun medic class, I want a balanced gun selection for medics so that I don't have to rely on teammates to protect me because an SMG can't hit someone at a distance firing at me with an LMG or scoped rifle. 

I completely agree on the medic class: I used to play medic all the time on BF1, because I liked reviving people, AND I liked the semi-auto rifles they had (Selbstlader 1916, RSC,  M1907, etc.).

 

Now with BFV, all the semi-auto and marksman rifles are in the assault class, and the medic only has useless SMG's, which are even outgunned short range by the assault class rifles like the STG1-5 and STG 44. I WANT to play medic, but it is just not fun being outgunned by every class! I want to revive people, but not at the cost of not having my own fun in the gunplay. Sad really.

 

Now I play Assault exclusively (sadly), because it has the best medium-range marksman rifles for the bigger maps (Hamada, Arras, Twisted Steel, Panzerstorm), and the best all-round weapons for the close-quarter maps (Devastation, Rotterdam, etc.).  I don't know, maybe the problem is that the Assault weapons are just too good? The M1A1 is SOOO powerful, I can easily take down snipers long range and Support players at long and medium ranges. STG44 is SOO good, I can easily take out 2-3 players close-medium range before having to reload.

 

That being said, the game also just lacks content. There are only two factions (British and German) and only a handful of maps! Are they even planning to add Americans, Russians, Japan, etc. etc. to the game? This doesn't even feel like a WW2 game to me honestly. No iconic battles, no iconic guns (M1 garand??, PPSH?). It just feels like a very generic shooter with old guns. Have they said anything about upcoming maps and factions?

 

To me, this game just feels rushed. Instead of spending time on adding more and better factions and maps, they spent time chasing the Battle Royale dollar, spent time on cosmetics they will sell, and spent time on a single player mode that many players don't even play. What a mismanagement of developer time.

[Blademaster91]

On 1/4/2019 at 8:37 AM, maartendc said:

I completely agree on the medic class: I used to play medic all the time on BF1, because I liked reviving people, AND I liked the semi-auto rifles they had (Selbstlader 1916, RSC,  M1907, etc.).

Now with BFV, all the semi-auto and marksman rifles are in the assault class, and the medic only has useless SMG's, which are even outgunned short range by the assault class rifles like the STG1-5 and STG 44. I WANT to play medic, but it is just not fun being outgunned by every class! I want to revive people, but not at the cost of not having my own fun in the gunplay. Sad really.

Now I play Assault exclusively (sadly), because it has the best medium-range marksman rifles for the bigger maps (Hamada, Arras, Twisted Steel, Panzerstorm), and the best all-round weapons for the close-quarter maps (Devastation, Rotterdam, etc.).  I don't know, maybe the problem is that the Assault weapons are just too good? The M1A1 is SOOO powerful, I can easily take down snipers long range and Support players at long and medium ranges. STG44 is SOO good, I can easily take out 2-3 players close-medium range before having to reload.

That being said, the game also just lacks content. There are only two factions (British and German) and only a handful of maps! Are they even planning to add Americans, Russians, Japan, etc. etc. to the game? This doesn't even feel like a WW2 game to me honestly. No iconic battles, no iconic guns (M1 garand??, PPSH?). It just feels like a very generic shooter with old guns. Have they said anything about upcoming maps and factions?

To me, this game just feels rushed. Instead of spending time on adding more and better factions and maps, they spent time chasing the Battle Royale dollar, spent time on cosmetics they will sell, and spent time on a single player mode that many players don't even play. What a mismanagement of developer time.

Yeah i've tried sticking with the medic class, but assault is so much better to use with the M1A1, or STG 44. I don't even use the scout class either, the marksman rifles are powerful and you don't get the dumb scope glint that others can see pretty much across the map lol.

The content is really lacking, BFV is missing so much that it should have gotten at launch or just after the launch like iconic weapons such as the M1918 BAR, M1903 sniper, or the Mosin Nagant which could have been just copied over from BF1. The lack of maps, and since a person can hit rank 50 and unlock the best weapons quickly the game gets kind of boring,IMO.

I really dislike the "game as a live service" approach when EA drags the content out so much that the game at launch almost feels like its still a beta test.

[Sauron]

On 12/17/2018 at 9:00 PM, jasonvp said:

Ultimately, TTD is what they need to fix, not TTK.  And they've ack'd that and will revert us back.  Thank... Dice?

To be honest, I've always felt the newer BF games had way too short TTDs - and part of it is definitely due to the damage output of the guns, not just to server lag. Even in perfect conditions, the time to react is very low (even disregarding the one-shot deaths from snipers). It's part of the reason I stopped buying them after bf3 (although the season pass nonsense didn't help). Maybe it's better now, but some deaths felt extremely cheap and more due to the other guy just getting the jump on me than anything else.

 

As for new players, sure, lowering the damage doesn't make the game easier in general, but it makes it less frustrating in my opinion. Even if they don't get a lot of kills, being killed less is more beneficial to their experience. At least they have time to learn to aim instead of being instantly killed every 10 seconds.

[PCGuy_5960]

On 1/4/2019 at 4:37 PM, maartendc said:

Now with BFV, all the semi-auto and marksman rifles are in the assault class, and the medic only has useless SMG's, which are even outgunned short range by the assault class rifles like the STG1-5 and STG 44. I WANT to play medic, but it is just not fun being outgunned by every class! I want to revive people, but not at the cost of not having my own fun in the gunplay. Sad really.

Let's be honest though, if medics had better guns (especially if they had semi auto/marksman rifles) they would be OP. They are the only class that can heal back up to 100% health after every fight regardless of how much damage they take in that fight. If they had marksman rifles, I bet that more than 50% of medics would just camp at the edges of the map and try to snipe people.

 

That being said, SMGs could definitely use a buff. IMO, they should have less horizontal recoil. They do less damage than ARs and they have slower bullets, I don't understand why they should be harder to control than ARs.

[Blademaster91]

3 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Let's be honest though, if medics had better guns (especially if they had semi auto/marksman rifles) they would be OP. They are the only class that can heal back up to 100% health after every fight regardless of how much damage they take in that fight. If they had marksman rifles, I bet that more than 50% of medics would just camp at the edges of the map and try to snipe people.

 

That being said, SMGs could definitely use a buff. IMO, they should have less horizontal recoil. They do less damage than ARs and they have slower bullets, I don't understand why they should be harder to control than ARs.

I don't think medics should have marksman rifles, but something else besides SMG's that get outgunned by every other class. Maybe the semi auto marksman rifles could work but just dont allow the medic to attach the marksman scopes. I didn't play much of BF1, so coming from BF4 the separating the assault and medic class wasn't even necessary IMO, it could have been split into specializations in the assault class letting you choose if you wanted to go be an anti-tank or be an assault medic.

With the concern of being overpowered and camping, the support class can sit on a chokepoint area of a map with a MMG being able to resupply themselves with ammo, and the assault can be a sniper in most situations with a semi auto rifle.

[maartendc]

On 1/5/2019 at 5:38 PM, PCGuy_5960 said:

Let's be honest though, if medics had better guns (especially if they had semi auto/marksman rifles) they would be OP. They are the only class that can heal back up to 100% health after every fight regardless of how much damage they take in that fight. If they had marksman rifles, I bet that more than 50% of medics would just camp at the edges of the map and try to snipe people.

 

That being said, SMGs could definitely use a buff. IMO, they should have less horizontal recoil. They do less damage than ARs and they have slower bullets, I don't understand why they should be harder to control than ARs. 

Well I don't agree. In BF1 the medic class had marksman rifles, but I dont think it was OP. It was just a good class, but so were Assault and Support. They were on par in my opinion. Other classes have very powerful gadgets too, such as being able to take out vehicles with Assault class. So I dont think being able to heal should mean the medic gets nerfed in every other way. The healing mechanic takes time to use, so it only matters between firefights, not IN firefights.

 

I would put a counterpoint: It currently doesn't even matter as a medic that you can heal up, because you lose every firefight anyway. So there is no point healing up, because you're dead already. Your measly MP40 was outgunned by, oh I dont know, EVERY OTHER GUN FROM EVERY OTHER CLASS.

 

 

[PCGuy_5960]

15 hours ago, maartendc said:

In BF1 the medic class had marksman rifles, but I dont think it was OP. It was just a good class

Yes, but in BF1 every class could regen up to 100hp after every fight

On 1/6/2019 at 3:47 AM, Blademaster91 said:

Maybe the semi auto marksman rifles could work but just dont allow the medic to attach the marksman scopes.

Yes, that would make sense.

[maartendc]

54 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yes, but in BF1 every class could regen up to 100hp after every fight

Yes, that would make sense.

That is true, eventually you could heal up, but way slower than the medic could. So you could do it, but if you were up against multiple enemies at once, it wouldnt save you.

 

EDIT: The funny thing is, these kinds of discussions are probably going on at DICE as well. Probably the team disagrees on what should happen to the medic class as well.

 

However, I think the whole playerbase agrees that medics are kind of terrible at the moment.