thermal throttling More details about the throttling issues of the 15" core i9 MacBook Pro, this time with Final Cut Pro X

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, userzero said:

Who cares.

We and people who were interested in this machine do.

 

Simply put, there's no reason to sell a machine with a super high-end CPU that not only performs worse than its base model counterpart but also its predecessor simply because the cooling system is unable to keep the machine cool enough to maintain base clocks, let alone turbo.

 

You're paying $300 extra for what's basically a performance downgrade in heavy tasks.

 

You can't defend Apple from this in any way or form.

[userzero]

It's a Mac. Kill it. Kill it with fire. Move on.

[Drak3]

32 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I/O

After almost a year of using OSX, not having I/O on a Mac isn't a big deal. Using external storage with OSX is a pain in the ass, aftermarket mice NEED utilities to get a somewhat pleasurable experience, and multimonitor also leaves alot to be desired.

 

For a professional system, I'd take Ubuntu or Windows over OSX.

[D13H4RD]

This is my friend now who has a 2017 MBP 15" with the i7 7820HQ

[captain_to_fire]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I've been saying this for years, but uneducated, ignorant fanboys always assume that Apple software is created with black magic and that's why it performs so well.

Nice to see even more confirmation that it is the case.

It doesn’t take a lot of searching to prove that FCP X uses Quick Sync considering that even in Intel’s product description for Xeons and Quick Sync is absent unlike in their regular consumer processors. 

[D13H4RD]

One thing I find funny

 

The cooling solution on the current MBP is barely adequate for a 7700HQ/7820HQ and their Skylake-based predecessors.

 

So I wonder what led them to believe that the same cooling system is fine for a CPU that kicks out tons more heat?

[captain_to_fire]

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

After almost a year of using OSX, not having I/O on a Mac isn't a big deal. Using external storage with OSX is a pain in the ass, aftermarket mice NEED utilities to get a somewhat pleasurable experience, and multimonitor also leaves alot to be desired.

 

For a professional system, I'd take Ubuntu or Windows over OSX.

Well the 2015 MacBook Pro has the following: 

• Thunderbolt 2 via mini display port 
• Two USB 3 Type A ports 
• full SDXC card slot 
• one HDMI port 

I’d say there was once a time when pros weren’t complaining about the I/O of the MBP. My old 2011 MacBook Air even requires less dongles than the current MBP. 

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

One thing I find funny

 

The cooling solution on the current MBP is barely adequate for a 7700HQ/7820HQ and their Skylake-based predecessors.

 

So I wonder what led them to believe that the same cooling system is fine for a CPU that kicks out tons more heat?

Don't worry according to the comment section on the article:

 

Quote

Part of me wonders if these machines are not optimized for High Sierra but Mojave. And that we will see final cut updates to improve this.

A newer OS X version can fix this........  LOL!

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

My old 2011 MacBook Air even requires less dongles than the current MBP. 

Ditto for my 2009 MacBook Pro

 

Back when they worked as well as they looked.

[Sauron]

Intel IS partly to blame because their mobile i9 chips are garbage when it comes to thermal performance - that doesn't excuse Apple for still using them and selling them for 6k$.

[D13H4RD]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Intel IS partly to blame because their mobile i9 chips are garbage when it comes to thermal performance - that doesn't excuse Apple for still using them and selling them for 6k$.

Well, we can blame Intel for making a toaster in the first place.

 

But as to who's to blame for putting said toaster in their laptops and decide it's okay to sell it, that goes to the laptop vendor.

 

Also, Apple. Mind telling me what sort of magic you casted to have a 87W power adapter be adequate for an 8950HK?

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Well, we can blame Intel for making a toaster in the first place.

 

But as to who's to blame for putting said toaster in their laptops and decide it's okay to sell it, that goes to the laptop vendor.

Of course - unless Intel at some point promised better performance to Apple and failed to deliver. I find it hard to believe they'd fail so hard on estimating the TDP though.

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Of course - unless Intel at some point promised better performance to Apple and failed to deliver. I find it hard to believe they'd fail so hard on estimating the TDP though.

Or the power consumption. On the product page, it said this;

Quote

The 15‑inch model now features a 6‑core Intel Core i9 processor that works up to 70 percent faster than the previous generation, enabling up to 4.8GHz Turbo Boost speeds.

I wonder if they realize that the CPU can consume up to 150W of power (though it will rarely go that high) at that 4.8GHz speed?

[captain_to_fire]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Don't worry according to the comment section on the article:

 

A newer OS X version can fix this........  LOL!

 

I'll wait until someone says Windows Media Player is optimized for Windows 7 but not Windows 10. 

[captain_to_fire]

33 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Ditto for my 2009 MacBook Pro

 

Back when they worked as well as they looked.

I instantly liked OS X upon the first boot of my 2011 MacBook Pro like the trackpad gestures and I can do basic video editing with iMovie which is better than Windows 7's garbage Windows Movie Maker. Snow Leopard even has this video upon first boot.

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by captain_to_fire

[D13H4RD]

14 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I'll wait until someone says Windows Media Player is optimized for Windows 7 but not Windows 10. 

I wonder if that'll fix the potential power draw issue of the CPU being unable to reach max turbo due to power limitations. Unless it pulls a GL502VS

 

thonk intensifies

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I instantly liked OS X upon the first boot of my 2011 MacBook Pro like the trackpad gestures and I can do basic video editing with iMovie which is better than Windows 7's garbage Windows Media Player. Snow Leopard even has this video upon first boot.

 

Oh man, the nostalgia. That really was the defining moment of booting up my MBP for the first time. It felt somewhat special. In contrast, booting up my ASUS STRIX was a little bare. There's still the excitement of trying all the latest games on the beefy hardware, but it lacks that same "charm" I had with that MBP.

 

3 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

oh nuts even FCPX, a first-party program native to OSX that's known to run on fumes and beat the crap out of higher-tier systems on Windows ._.

 

they should just up the "few" millimeters back for a better power and cooling system. the tail-between-legs response for the keyboard workaround (and presumably the 32GB RAM) is really nothing compared to this.

I think it's best they just redesign the whole thing.

[Sauron]

18 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Or the power consumption. On the product page, it said this;

I wonder if they realize that the CPU can consume up to 150W of power (though it will rarely go that high) at that 4.8GHz speed?

Even then that shouldn't cause throttling, only a faster battery drain.

[D13H4RD]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Even then that shouldn't cause throttling, only a faster battery drain.

And that's still an issue because this was the same thing GL502VS users complained about.

 

I know that's a Windows gaming laptop, but I thought it was common sense to pair the proper adapter based on approximately how much power it'll consume at max. It might be due to the USB-PD 100W limit, however.

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

And that's still an issue because this was the same thing GL502VS users complained about.

 

I know that's a Windows gaming laptop, but I thought it was common sense to pair the proper adapter based on approximately how much power it'll consume at max. It might be due to the USB-PD 100W limit, however.

Or they knew it would never sustain that power draw anyway (more likely just type c spec limitation though).

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Or they knew it would never sustain that power draw anyway (more likely just type c spec limitation though).

Kinda makes me feel that the 4.8GHz advertised turbo won't ever be reached.

 

Because the laptop either throttles itself to oblivion (which it is currently doing) or it'll overwhelm the power adapter and start draining quite a bit of reserve battery power. Mostly the former though, as even some gaming laptops struggle at 4.5

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Because the laptop either throttles itself to oblivion (which it is currently doing) or it'll overwhelm the power adapter and start draining quite a bit of reserve battery power. Mostly the former though, as even some gaming laptops struggle at 4.5

In the 9to5 Mac article, it seems that some cores throttle and some cores go idle at 800 MHz (deep dips in the graph). I don't know why this is the case though. Maybe @leadeater can answer.

[Drak3]

43 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Well the 2015 MacBook Pro has the following: 

• Thunderbolt 2 via mini display port 
• Two USB 3 Type A ports 
• full SDXC card slot 
• one HDMI port 

I’d say there was once a time when pros weren’t complaining about the I/O of the MBP. My old 2011 MacBook Air even requires less dongles than the current MBP. 

Doesn't really change what I said. Using peripherals in OSX has been worse than any other OS I've touched because of OSX's design. Not port selection. As far as I'm concerned, it could only have 1 type C port, and exclusive to the case of Apple and OSX, the impact for most of the users would be none.

[captain_to_fire]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Using peripherals in OSX has been worse than any other OS I've touched because of OSX's design

I beg to differ as per my experience with the Mac. Managing peripherals and other external devices is actually easier on the Mac imo because they appear in the desktop as individual drives unlike Windows where you have to go the File Explorer before getting into them. Ejecting USB flash drives is also better on the Mac. All I need is drag the drive icon on the desktop (usually upper right) to the Trash (lower right of the dock) and if for some reason it refuses to eject, the warning message will display which program is currently using the drive. Windows until now is driving me nuts that ejecting a usb drive requires to dig through the dinky bottom right toolbars that says "Safely Remove Hardware" and until now, it doesn't show which program is using the drive when it refuses to be ejected.

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

The old i7 (4770HQ) and the i9 (8950HK) have more or less the same TDP. 47W vs 45W.

Lets "step it up" a notch, my good old laptop has a 3630QM(45W TDP), but unlike this heap of junk it has proper cooling and the CPU can maintain its boost clock over long periods of time(and by long period im speaking about days).