Massive changes to the Steam Store after the waifu holocaust

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I don't consider it lazy when the time and resources to do what you want them to do would be massive and be subjective. A return policy is honestly a better solution than the one that you propose. 

The return policy would have to be far better than what it is - but yet again, Valve can't bother offering proper support. There are a lot of things Valve does well, but store management isn't one of them.

[Andreas Lilja]

Return policy is meh, but what even happened to game demos?

 

[TetraSky]

Good.

Just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed to like it.

[Sniperfox47]

1 hour ago, Raskolnikov said:

Return policy is meh, but what even happened to game demos?

 

Game demos are up to the game developer. Compound has one but most developers can't be bothered to design a demo on top of the actual game.

 

If there is one, there should be a little blue "Install Demo" button on the right hand infobar.

[D13H4RD]

Of course, PC Gamer had to say why this is a bad idea... 

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/steams-new-anything-goes-policy-is-doomed-from-the-start/

 

Personally, I support this. It's a free market and people should have the choice to decide what they want to spend their money on 

[matrix07012]

4 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Of course, PC Gamer had to say why this is a bad idea... 

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/steams-new-anything-goes-policy-is-doomed-from-the-start/

 

Personally, I support this. It's a free market and people should have the choice to decide what they want to spend their money on 

What do you expect from game journous? Side with the gamer?

[Sauron]

5 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Of course, PC Gamer had to say why this is a bad idea... 

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/steams-new-anything-goes-policy-is-doomed-from-the-start/

 

Personally, I support this. It's a free market and people should have the choice to decide what they want to spend their money on 

What if I told you the mountains of shovelware that gets thrown on steam every day is stifling the indie market because people just can't find good indie games on the store? They get buried by garbage and I would argue that is NOT good for the consumer.

 

Also, imagine you bought something on amazon only to find out the product was far worse than advertised and was covered in pee... because that's pretty much the experience you get from some of the "games" that get on steam. Even with a return policy people don't have time to play minesweeper and cross their fingers that they won't be getting a game that barely runs and will take weeks to refund.

[D13H4RD]

33 minutes ago, Sauron said:

What if I told you the mountains of shovelware that gets thrown on steam every day is stifling the indie market because people just can't find good indie games on the store? They get buried by garbage and I would argue that is NOT good for the consumer.

That's been by worry, but lately, Valve doesn't seem interested in better filtering options so that people can find exactly what they're looking for.

[Sniperfox47]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

What if I told you the mountains of shovelware that gets thrown on steam every day is stifling the indie market because people just can't find good indie games on the store? They get buried by garbage and I would argue that is NOT good for the consumer.

 

Also, imagine you bought something on amazon only to find out the product was far worse than advertised and was covered in pee... because that's pretty much the experience you get from some of the "games" that get on steam. Even with a return policy people don't have time to play minesweeper and cross their fingers that they won't be getting a game that barely runs and will take weeks to refund.

How is it in any way Steam's job to get an indie game recognized on their store? How is that at all what's stifling the market?

 

If you're making an indie game and can't afford the "steep marketing costs" of giving a couple free copies of your game to some entry level YouTubers I'm not sure how you afforded making a quality game in the first place. "Hey, here have a free copy of this new game that's about to come out. Feel free to try it, and if you like it we'd love a shoutout, or feel free to live stream it if you want. And even if you dislike it, we'd love some feedback and your thoughts on it. :)"

 

As soon as a few people buy your game and it starts getting positive reviews it's going to start ending up in people's feeds. You just also need to make sure it's tagged appropriately.

[Sauron]

8 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

How is it in any way Steam's job to get an indie game recognized on their store? How is that at all what's stifling the market?

Valve has a dominant position when it comes to online game marketplaces, what they do has ripercussions. If you compare indie game sales on pc to those on consoles the difference is staggering and ultimately boils down to the fact that on steam those games get buried. If these people can't make money they'll either retire or move to a different platform, which hurts the consumer. Valve also makes less money if people don't buy games by the way. Valve has a right to be incompetent with their own platform, that doesn't mean I can't criticise them for it...

12 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

If you're making an indie game and can't afford the "steep marketing costs" of giving a couple free copies of your game to some entry level YouTubers I'm not sure how you afforded making a quality game in the first place. 

Sure, because youtubers can play hundreds of games per week just because they were asked to... part of Steam's services as a marketplace include offering some visibility, but as it is they don't - so why would developers even pay the fee to get on steam if they won't get any better visibility anyway? They might as well host their own website and hope they win the youtube lottery...

14 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

As soon as a few people buy your game and it starts getting positive reviews it's going to start ending up in people's feeds. You just also need to make sure it's tagged appropriately.

No it won't, because there is a constant influx of garbage that competes for the same slots. The review system doesn't work because there are people who will take money to boost a "game"'s rating. Even if it does end up in people's feeds, distinguishing it from the garbage at first glance can be a problem.

[Sniperfox47]

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Valve has a dominant position when it comes to online game marketplaces, what they do has ripercussions. If you compare indie game sales on pc to those on consoles the difference is staggering and ultimately boils down to the fact that on steam those games get buried. If these people can't make money they'll either retire or move to a different platform, which hurts the consumer. Valve also makes less money if people don't buy games by the way. Valve has a right to be incompetent with their own platform, that doesn't mean I can't criticise them for it...

Indie game sales on PC are also lower in part because you have a smaller less focused audience on PC. It's not all just "Steam is trash so nobody buys their games!". Even on consoles the developers need to do marketing work to get featured, and they need to get featured to make any real money on the title. Game development isn't just "make game, toss it somewhere, hope it sells" unless it *is* an asset flip. And I mean even asset flips use viral marketing these days, just look at Active Shooter with it's viral marketing campaign that totally backfired.

 

 

And how does it hurt the consumer for developers to support other platforms, particularly platforms like Humble, GOG or Itch? More content on these other platforms means more platform choice for gamers which is only a good thing.

 

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Sure, because youtubers can play hundreds of games per week just because they were asked to... part of Steam's services as a marketplace include offering some visibility, but as it is they don't - so why would developers even pay the fee to get on steam if they won't get any better visibility anyway? They might as well host their own website and hope they win the youtube lottery...

They often do. I mean there are plenty of upcoming YouTubers who would kill for an exclusive or semi exclusive scoop about a decent game. In terms of legitimizing it, creating an official video upload for the title on a channel for your studio helps too, even if the trailer isn't particularly professional. There have been a number of successful indie games from small first-time teams who have gone this route.

 

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

No it won't, because there is a constant influx of garbage that competes for the same slots. The review system doesn't work because there are people who will take money to boost a "game"'s rating. Even if it does end up in people's feeds, distinguishing it from the garbage at first glance can be a problem.

So it's the PC version of the Google Play Store... Again read user reviews. Do some research on the title and if you can't find any info or it seems sketch just... don't buy it...

 

Sorry but if you're an impulse shopper and buy all the $3 games in your discovery queue that look interesting you're going to get taken advantage of. But that's nothing unique to steam, physically stores have been doing this for literally decades. That's why there's an impulse buy kiosk at the register.

 

And just for the record that goes on console too. Not every title is going to be what it appears on the cover. See No Man's Sky for a perfect example. On console reviewing every title that comes through is *far* more feasible than PC because you have a bigger profit stream and a far smaller applicant pool of applications.