nVidia GeForce Partner Program: Well Intention Marketing or Anti-Competitive

[hobobobo]

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

yes they have reference design always first everyone knows this, then they allow others to do what they wish

titan is clear example of this

 

What NV offers to partners is also reference design, the only difference is - they sell it on its own, unlike QCOM.

 

I know its uncalled for, but, how much does NV pay for damage control and how can i apply for the job? Seems pretty fun

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, pas008 said:

but its a nvidia product though plain and simple

It's not it's Asus's or EVGA's. Nvidia only creates the designs and licenses it out to other companies to produce. TSMC manufactures the GPU packages and sells them to authorized board partners, Asus, EVGA etc. You're right Nvidia can request that it gets marketed a certain way that is totally fine, they can't just put a clause in preventing products not of their own design to not be named a certain way.

 

Asus created the ROG branding themselves, it's their IP that they made. They spent the money creating and marketing that brand and it's used on a wide range of products. Nvidia shouldn't have the right to step in and take over that branding as their own, they have no right to it's not theirs. The terms of the GPP is potentially strong arming companies in to allowing this so they don't lose the support required to stay competitive in the market selling their product.

 

If you still can't see the issue in that then there's nothing more to talk about. We'll just have to wait for more information to come out so we can understand exactly what is going on, none of this is confirmed and we are talking about theoretical issues.  

[Blademaster91]

10 minutes ago, pas008 said:

yes must name nvidia products with own sub name

 

wow is everyone getting butthurt over a new naming scheme that should have happened long ago

A new naming scheme only punishes the AIB's and would potentially make it more confusing for consumers.

If you can't tell the difference between a Asus Strix GTX1060 with a green accent box and an Asus Strix RX580 with a red accent box you should have done another few minutes of searching before just picking whatever.

I think the bigger problem is like a recent video Linus did on "gaming" vs. "regular" PC components,when people pay more for flashy RGB and a "GAMING" label.

[hobobobo]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

-snip-

I admire you ability to put the same arguments i have into a proper explanation without missing major logic steps

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

I admire you ability to put the same arguments i have into a proper explanation without missing major logic steps

Doing my best, it's 4am lol. Can't sleep.

[pas008]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It's not it's Asus's or EVGA's. Nvidia only creates the designs and licenses it out to other companies to produce. TSMC manufactures the GPU packages and sells them to authorized board partners, Asus, EVGA etc. You're right Nvidia can request that it gets marketed a certain way that is totally fine, they can't just put a clause in preventing products not of their own design to not be named a certain way.

 

Asus created the ROG branding themselves, it's their IP that they made. They spent the money creating and marketing that brand and it's used on a wide range of products. Nvidia shouldn't have the right to step in and take over that branding as their own, they have no right to it's not theirs. The terms of the GPP is potentially strong arming companies in to allowing this so they don't lose the support required to stay competitive in the market selling their product.

 

If you still can't see the issue in that then there's nothing more to talk about. We'll just have to wait for more information to come out so we can understand exactly what is going on, none of this is confirmed and we are talking about theoretical issues.  

exactly

but imho I see nothing wrong with this if they want to try to rid themselves being under same sub brand which I think should have happened long ago

and on that note many companies have multiple gaming labels now strix/rog, gaming/aorus, gamingx/aero, etc etc

 

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

and on that note many companies have multiple gaming labels now strix/rog, gaming/aorus, gamingx/aero, etc etc

Cool, now imagine if all the companies are forced to rename all their products that are not Nvidia's to something else but cannot contain the word gaming in them anywhere. So now Nvidia has exclusive access to well established product namings that everyone associates with quality and already recognizes that they look out for when buying a product.

 

"I know STRIX products are good I'll buy one of those", welp you'll only be buying Nvidia then. Sucks to be anyone not Nvidia.

 

How about Nvidia creates their own branding for Asus, EVGA, MSI etc to sell their products under instead of taking over established branding that those companies worked and established on their own. If Nvidia wants unified branding then make it up themselves.

[pas008]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Cool, now imagine if all the companies are forced to rename all their products that are not Nvidia's to something else but cannot contain the word gaming in them anywhere. So now Nvidia has exclusive access to well established product namings that everyone associates with quality and already recognizes that they look out for when buying a product.

 

"I know STRIX products are good I'll buy one of those", welp you'll only be buying Nvidia then. Sucks to be anyone not Nvidia.

 

How about Nvidia creates their own branding for Asus, EVGA, MSI etc to sell their products under instead of taking over established branding that those companies worked and established on their own. If Nvidia wants unified branding then make it up themselves.

thats how it should be if manufacturer A is making products for nvidia/amd/intel/etc

what is wrong with having their "gaming" cards have different sub names

we already have this in many products out there from brake pads/potato chips/tvs/etc all manufactured in same building

 

I'd love to know of other products besides motherboards and gpus that have same sub branding

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

thats how it should be if manufacturer A is making products for nvidia/amd/intel/etc

what is wrong with having their "gaming" cards have different sub names

we already have this in many products out there from brake pads/potato chips/tvs/etc all manufactured in same building

Nothing is wrong with having different sub names, you're ignoring the point again .

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Nothing is wrong with having different sub names, you're ignoring the point again .

Thats why id be so happy if he told me what damage control worth this days and where to apply

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

thats how it should be if manufacturer A is making products for nvidia/amd/intel/etc

what is wrong with having their "gaming" cards have different sub names

we already have this in many products out there from brake pads/potato chips/tvs/etc all manufactured in same building

 

I'd love to know of other products besides motherboards and gpus that have same sub branding

Hey, i guess GIGABYTE AORUS Xtreme GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Waterforce WB 11GD, GV-N108TAORUSX WB-11GD or  GIGABYTE AORUS Xtreme GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Waterforce 11GD, GV-N108TAORUSXW-11GD doesnt have a subbrand name in there, ignore the GeForce GTX part, i guess your friends from a post a couple of pages ago are just cognitive impared

[pas008]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Nothing is wrong with having different sub names, you're ignoring the point again .

the point of offering a partnership?

no one is forcing anything

[pas008]

3 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

Thats why id be so happy if he told me what damage control worth this days and where to apply

Hey, i guess GIGABYTE AORUS Xtreme GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Waterforce WB 11GD, GV-N108TAORUSX WB-11GD or  GIGABYTE AORUS Xtreme GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Waterforce 11GD, GV-N108TAORUSXW-11GD doesnt have a subbrand name in there, ignore the GeForce GTX part, i guess your friends from a post a couple of pages ago are just cognitive impared

no when someone tells a newb to get rog, he gets rog, have you even helped in tech support, many dont even know the specs of their system

we are the 1% here

 

i guarantee you have ran into many people that didnt even know ram/cpu/motherboard

they just say rog/alienware/etc

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, pas008 said:

the point of offering a partnership?

no one is forcing anything

Other than requiring that all existing gaming focused branding is turned over to Nvidia exclusively or not be a GPP partner therefore lose engineering support for any Nvidia products they make, yep nothing forced at all by that.

 

Answer me this, if Nvidia wants unified branding why aren't they creating it and making that part of the terms of GPP. Why are they instead trying to take over branding like ROG that is not there own.

 

Nvidia has plenty of money and an excellent marketing team, put them to work and create some branding then get all your products sold under that thereby fixing the confusion that customers are having and sorting out the issue.

 

Edit:

I'll give them a free one, Republic of Nvidia (RON).

Edited March 12, 2018 by leadeater

[hobobobo]

Just now, pas008 said:

no when someone tells a newb to get rog, he gets rog, have you even helped in tech support, many dont even know the specs of their system

we are the 1% here

Thats a weak argument, newbs usually get lost in the plethory of strix aourus and other stuff, not what nvidia or amd. And even if they do, thats ASUS problem and its theirs to deal with, wether they even see it as a problem. Now imagine a newb being told "get a gaming card" and he is automatically limited to NV offerings, despite AMD being superior in some segments.

 

Im currently in tech support, thankfully for a pretty small company, so i dont have scripts and shit. And the thing is, most of those newbs are of the older folk, who rarely bother to research the issues on their own and would just prefer to ask the guy at a physical retailer location for advice. You cant legislate/make rules based on the lowest common denominator, doesnt work, just makes it worse for the rest

[Humbug]

On 3/9/2018 at 2:18 PM, cj09beira said:

i dont think they want amd dead at all, they want it which in an inch of its life because they dont want to become the only one and get in trouble

Nvidia could't kill AMD if they wanted to. AMD as a company is more reliant on the CPU division. After years and years of losses They made 200+ million dollars profit in 2017 and will make a lot more in 2018, this mostly due to products based on new Zen cores. If Nvidia gets into price competition on GPUs then their own profits will take a big hit, shareholders will be unhappy,  and AMD still won't die.

 

The company that could have killed AMD is Intel.

 

Before Zen cores AMD had got kicked out of the server CPU market and got relegated to low end stuff on laptop and desktop due to non-competitive architecture. Selling CPUs with almost no margins and making hundreds of millions in losses. If they wanted to Intel could have moved forward a bit faster in their mainstream desktop segment with 4 core CPUs in the i3 range, 6 core i5s, 6 core + HT for i7. AMD would have had nowhere else to go basically...

[pas008]

15 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Other than requiring that all existing gaming focused branding is turned over to Nvidia exclusively or not be a GPP partner therefore lose engineering support for any Nvidia products they make, yep nothing forced at all by that.

 

Answer me this, if Nvidia wants unified branding why aren't they creating it and making that part of the terms of GPP. Why are they instead trying to take over branding like ROG that is not there own.

 

Nvidia has plenty of money and an excellent marketing team, put them to work and create some branding then get all your products sold under that thereby fixing the confusion that customers are having and sorting out the issue.

 

Edit:

I'll give them a free one, Republic of Nvidia (RON).

like you said nothing concrete, we will see how this goes

they already have geforce but aib have decided to mix the to competitors in sub names which is a problem to me

even if they offer 16 versions of the card for whatever clocks/colors/etc

I am sure everyone is just thinking this is a dick move from nvidia when long ago this should happen

i'm sure nvidia knows more about intels possible offerings considering cross ip licenses they had,

its about getting your ducks in a row after the chaos these aib has caused with grouping 2 multi billion competitors under the same sub name and maybe a 3rd company showing up maybe

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Before Zen cores AMD had got kicked out of the server CPU market and got relegated to low end stuff on laptop and desktop due to non-competitive architecture

They played a part in this themselves as well. They stopped designing server CPU architectures completely and moved over to focus on ARM servers but that market never eventuated like they banked on dooming them for a very long time.

 

It was quite a knock on effect because that also meant they had no high end CPU designs to leverage on the desktop side at all so they couldn't even compete with a more expensive design that at least had decent performance, or merge some of that design in to desktop products. Backing out of the x86 server market removed a big portion of R&D in that space and they suffered from it.

 

Crystal ball gazing I don't think AMD CPUs would have suffered for as long if they had not abandoned the x86 server market, bulldozer probably would have still been a thing but they could have ditched it much more quickly and gone something else sooner. Pure speculation though.

[Humbug]

19 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Snip

After a massively disappointing bulldozer launch they actually  did a nice iteration from bulldozer to piledriver just 1 year later. Got a bit more power efficient, got a bit more clocks, got a bit higher IPC. But as you said after that they basically stopped and did nothing... Possibly there were technical reasons why they couldn't keep improving like that every year. Whereas today they have Zen cores on the market but got Zen+, Zen2, Zen3 all lined up with different CPU teams leap frogging each other.

 

Maybe after piledriver they looked at the high end desktop and server market and figured intel cores are so much better that we can never really compete using cores derived from bulldozer. We are already bleeding money so let's just put all the R&D into Zen cores and focus on staying alive until then, rather than trying to polish a turd.

 

 

[Humbug]

On 3/9/2018 at 6:24 AM, DoctorWho1975 said:

What would have really helped AMD is if Vega was not a heaping pile of shit.

nope, they are easily selling out every single Vega that they can manufacture.

 

What would help them now is more fabrication capacity at TSMC and global foundries, coupled with more memory supply.

[mr moose]

Yikes! there is a lot of heated debate here for not only an article that so far isn't corroborated let alone evidenced, but also because the secondhand information we have is truly open to interpretation. 

[Guest]

On 3/9/2018 at 9:17 AM, TrigrH said:

this can't be right? can it?

In what sense?

[Razor01]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Yikes! there is a lot of heated debate here for not only an article that so far isn't corroborated let alone evidenced, but also because the secondhand information we have is truly open to interpretation. 

 

 

This is exactly what it is lol.  [H]'s story, my assumption they know more then they are letting on to, but it doesn't seem to be the case.  They are assuming things are going to happening. 

 

There could be things in the program that could cause concern if used in a certain ways, but till they are there is nothing there.

 

Partnerships and exclusivity are only illegal if it stops fair markets.  It has to hurt a company which intern hurts the consumer.

 

OEM's and AIB's can be pissed off that nV wants the OEM's, AIB's gaming brand aligned with nV's brand, that is not illegal on it self, since the program is opt in.  Now opt in benefits, are they being withheld if they don't opt in.  As in are they getting those benefits now with no program?  I don't think they are being without the program right now but there are other stipulations for such things.  Tier 0 or tier 1 partners have to buy a certain amount of GPU's to get those perks currently.  That is normal business practice.  Co marketing isn't even being done right now that I'm aware of.  MCF, is interesting, we don't know anything about that so hard to speculate anything there.  But I don't see that happening right now, so that is probably an extra perk.  It gives advantages in the market place for partners, so this might not make other non partners happy.

 

AMD, its definitely going to hurt directly.  But this doesn't stop partners selling AMD branded products, just can't be under the game brand products.  That is a little tenuous there, gotta see how that plays out.

 

Need more info pretty much.

 

And H, I posted all this there, Kyle has no response to any of it, he makes things up with opinions that thinks are happening, in truth nothing has happened so far, when pressed he pretty much contradicted himself saying there are lawsuits pending, and then AMD wants to do this publicly so they don't' need to go that route.  Funny thing is if they are doing lawsuits, They wouldn't go to the public, it undermines the lawsuit.

[WMGroomAK]

19 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

And H, I posted all this there, Kyle has no response to any of it, he makes things up with opinions that things are happening, in truth nothing has happened so far, when pressed he pretty much contradicted himself saying there are lawsuits pending, and then AMD wants to do this publicly so they don't' need to go that route.  Funny thing is if they are doing lawsuits, They wouldn't go to the public, it undermines the lawsuit.

As you brought up your own posts on HardOCP, you may want to clarify the pretty heated thread discussion that you had over there and how they locked it...  I would post a link to it, but that might be against the community rules of this forum.  Not defending Kyle on this, however, it may seem like you have an axe to grind with him right about now.

[Razor01]

36 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

As you brought up your own posts on HardOCP, you may want to clarify the pretty heated thread discussion that you had over there and how they locked it...  I would post a link to it, but that might be against the community rules of this forum.  Not defending Kyle on this, however, it may seem like you have an axe to grind with him right about now.

 

 

Please do if its allowed, he banned me, I have been following his stuff for over 10 years now, 12 years, and this is the first time I saw him post things just to make others change their view points about, in particular my posts.

 

No axe to grind with him man. I have the utmost respect for him.  I just stated the facts of how lawsuits work, and since half the community there thinks I don't know what I was talking about, actually asked attorneys in this specific field how things are done.  They stated the same things I did.  If there were any legal avenues for AMD, AIB's OEM's to go towards right now, AMD wouldn't shop around for journalists. 

 

So Kyle's view of things are only for one thing sensationalism.  Currently there is no merit to his article.  This is why no other website or press member picked up the story, its all smoke and mirrors.

 

Kyle got angry I pointed out he made mistakes.  I have seen him ban others for doing the same thing.  I kinda knew he was going to do it with me too.  I really didn't care because someone had to tell him, and it was something I have experience with.  Too bad for him. 

 

Only a person that starts to threaten and censor others for speaking the truth gets hurt at the end.  [H] should get sued or hurt over that type of behavior.  Too bad for them.

[Blademaster91]

23 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

As you brought up your own posts on HardOCP, you may want to clarify the pretty heated thread discussion that you had over there and how they locked it...  I would post a link to it, but that might be against the community rules of this forum.  Not defending Kyle on this, however, it may seem like you have an axe to grind with him right about now.

I'm only skimming across that thread on HardOCP, i'm not a member there either but Kyle does seem to let his opinion and feelings get in the way and threatens anyone that has a differing opinion on the subject when there isn't even any solid evidence on these rumors. I dunno,i'll have to read more but they seem unprofessional for being H staff,not to mention he admits to being Intel blacklisted.