AT&T under pressure to cut all ties with Huawei

[Nena Trinity]

Sauce: https://www.androidauthority.com/att-huawei-us-5g-cricket-wireless-deal-830545/

 

Well this sucks, first the deal with the Mate 10 Pro was canceled and now this? The Republicans most really dislike China, but worst of all its a big loss for the consumers because they cannot get the best phones for their money.

 

Sauce 2: https://www.androidauthority.com/why-us-carriers-wont-sell-the-best-phone-in-the-world-829694/

 

Note: There is still no proof Huawei devices are in-secure, or have spyware in them & finally there is no CIA, FBI or NSA backdoor. :3

[Mooshi]

I'm 200% sure the US gov did far more spying than any Nexus 6P did.

[Nena Trinity]

4 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

I'm 200% sure the US gov did far more spying than any Nexus 6P did.

Dis: There is no CIA, FBI or NSA backdoor. :3

[sof006]

I love my P10. Nuff said.

[Misanthrope]

"How dare the Chinese try to spy on our citizens! As government officials, we must object to this domestic espionage, that's our job!"

[captain_to_fire]

And this is from the political party who wants a smaller government and deregulation of businesses and encourage competition. ??‍♂️?

 

Nonetheless, just like the alleged Kaspersky collusion with the Russian intelligence/FSB, it would be nice if the US government can produce technical data and sound evidence that Chinese made smartphones are a threat to US national security. Remember that the burden of proof is solely on the paranoid US government and not those who question the decision.

 

I wouldn’t be so surprised if the current administration (but I hope not) would demand Apple to manufacture their iPhones, iPads and Macs in the US because Foxxcon might slip some PRC made spyware because fuck the price. People will buy it anyway. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by hey_yo_

[Taf the Ghost]

7 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

And this is from the political party who wants a smaller government and deregulation of businesses and encourage competition. ??‍♂️

 

Nonetheless, just like the alleged Kaspersky collusion with the Russian intelligence/FSB, it would be nice if the US government can produce technical data and sound evidence that Chinese made smartphones are a threat to US national security. Remember that the burden of proof is solely on the paranoid US government and not those who question the decision.

 

I wouldn’t be so surprised if the current administration (but I hope not) would demand Apple to manufacture their iPhones, iPads and Macs in the US because Foxxcon might slip some PRC made spyware because fuck the price. People will buy it anyway. 

Apple will be producing much of its North American sales in the USA in probably 5-7 years. Funny thing about all of the automation coming to manufacturing is what good does it do a company to produce in a low-cost place when your plant is run by 25 people in total? Apple is also in the process of moving towards near complete integration, as their recent product launches point to. (Though no word if they're going to get into producing their own panels.)

 

As for Huawei, try to disconnect the Political vs the functional Reality aspects when it comes to espionage. No company in China gets big without support of the central government, which means they're expected to help in all matters that the Chinese State asks them. For all of the interrelated hypocrisy that's going to come from the American position on this, reality is that you shouldn't let certain Chinese companies operate much in most countries. The Chinese prefer a blanket everything espionage approach and significant amounts of their tech has always been stolen. (That's why they forced the Joint Venture stuff. Get the companies to translate all of their tech into Chinese and then just steal it.)

 

There's one other possible rub with Huawei that could also exist. Chinese manufacturers are known for their "after hours" work. That's where most of the black market products come from, but it's also a really good place to infiltrate compromised devices into a supply chain. Which would be a fairly useful to produce backdoors into a lot of networks, as review models would never have the compromises. If true, it also would explain why the US Government just doesn't want the phones & carrier inside the States, but is more than willing to use the compromises back at other countries. 

[GatioH]

I was actually looking forward to get a mate 10 (or something similar from hauwei) after my contract ends in April. R.I.P. that idea, galaxy s9 time I guess?

[BuckGup]

What’s to stop people from just buying them on eBay or forums?

[Nena Trinity]

7 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

"How dare the Chinese try to spy on our citizens! As government officials, we must object to this domestic espionage, that's our job!"

NSA: They took our jubs! >:o

28 minutes ago, GatioH said:

I was actually looking forward to get a mate 10 (or something similar from hauwei) after my contract ends in April. R.I.P. that idea, galaxy s9 time I guess?

No that is what those filthy carriers want you to do! ;__;

7 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

What’s to stop people from just buying them on eBay or forums?

Well its the majority share they worry about, Amazon, eBay & other sources aren't as much of a concern for the NSA...

[linustouchtips]

One day they will be great friends with US carriers just not this term.

[Nena Trinity]

14 minutes ago, linustouchtips said:

One day they will be great friends with US carriers just not this term.

Maybe if Trump does not get re-elected...

[PlayStation 2]

So Republicans try not to get into a mess with China and try not to do the same with Russia, yet we continue to get on them for collusion?

If anything, this just makes the situation more complicated.

[Ryujin2003]

On 1/19/2018 at 4:49 AM, Nena360 said:

Sauce: https://www.androidauthority.com/att-huawei-us-5g-cricket-wireless-deal-830545/

 

Well this sucks, first the deal with the Mate 10 Pro was canceled and now this? The Republicans most really dislike China, but worst of all its a big loss for the consumers because they cannot get the best phones for their money.

 

Sauce 2: https://www.androidauthority.com/why-us-carriers-wont-sell-the-best-phone-in-the-world-829694/

 

Note: There is still no proof Huawei devices are in-secure, or have spyware in them & finally there is no CIA, FBI or NSA backdoor. :3

So... No one is going to mention today you aren't using the required posting guidelines?

 

You need to cite from within the sources. Not just put a link and a sentence after.

 

And I think you did a great job trying to use this as a base to push your own political opinions, where instead I think you could do a much better job of presenting the sources and discussing the content. If you have thoughts, feelings, or opinions like what you have presented, then it feels much more coherent when you have cited content, and add a more detailed explanation of why you think or feel a certain way. The current way is disjointed, and seems like it's designed to start a flame war.

[Trixanity]

34 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

So... No one is going to mention today you aren't using the required posting guidelines?

 

You need to cite from within the sources. Not just put a link and a sentence after.

 

And I think you did a great job trying to use this as a base to push your own political opinions, where instead I think you could do a much better job of presenting the sources and discussing the content. If you have thoughts, feelings, or opinions like what you have presented, then it feels much more coherent when you have cited content, and add a more detailed explanation of why you think or feel a certain way. The current way is disjointed, and seems like it's designed to start a flame war.

It is bs to call it security and cite ties to China as a reason to bar Huawei from carriers. Huawei is a private company (granted the founder has had ties to the government prior to it). ZTE is a Chinese state-owned company that sells phones via US carriers and has breached a US embargo yet no one is trying to ban it. Both Huawei and ZTE also sell telecommunications equipment.

 

Huawei, however, still sell phones in retail but due to the antiquated market in the US you need carrier support to really gain proper access.

 

The EU hasn't banned Huawei and in fact many networks use Huawei equipment. Huawei phones are available from both carriers and retailers.

 

Granted, EU is more open in that regard and doesn't have a huge military apparatus and hegemony to protect so the risk isn't as great. But consumers aren't really the target of espionage anyway. The US could easily ban equipment from Huawei and ban devices for government employees and military personnel.

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

It is bs to call it security and cite ties to China as a reason to bar Huawei from carriers. Huawei is a private company (granted the founder has had ties to the government prior to it). ZTE is a Chinese state-owned company that sells phones via US carriers and has breached a US embargo yet no one is trying to ban it. Both Huawei and ZTE also sell telecommunications equipment.

ZTE is on the draft bill along with Huawei to get banned.

 

14 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Granted, EU is more open in that regard and doesn't have a huge military apparatus and hegemony to protect so the risk isn't as great.

EU has plenty of military research and industry going on; Tanks, Aircraft, Weapons etc they do it all just the same. The armor on US tanks is from British research and development. Sure they aren't as big in overall size as the US military but they need to protect their secrets and research just the same. The risk is exactly the same, the odds of being breached is just more likely for the US due to the size and the problems that creates.

 

National security is important for any nation and no nation's is more important than anyone else's.

 

27 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

The EU hasn't banned Huawei and in fact many networks use Huawei equipment. Huawei phones are available from both carriers and retailers.

Most non-US countries have significant Huawei equipment in use for internet and mobile infrastructure, 30% of our UFB network is Huawei and all of the long range 4G rural broadband is Huawei. The rest of the UFB network is Alcatel Lucent/Nokia I believe.

 

Personally I think most of this has to do with economic power and not data/communications security. Huawei is a massive company that did not gain it's market position unaided through regular market competition, it may be competing on the international market on the up and up but it's still doing so from a privileged position the competition does not have.

 

Economic power is just as much a threat as anything else is.

[Trixanity]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

ZTE is on the draft bill along with Huawei to get banned.

 

EU has plenty of military research and industry going on; Tanks, Aircraft, Weapons etc they do it all just the same. The armor on US tanks is from British research and development. Sure they aren't as big in overall size as the US military but they need to protect their secrets and research just the same. The risk is exactly the same, the odds of being breached is just more likely for the US due to the size and the problems that creates.

 

National security is important for any nation and no nation's is more important than anyone else's.

 

Most non-US countries have significant Huawei equipment in use for internet and mobile infrastructure, 30% of our UFB network is Huawei and all of the long range 4G rural broadband is Huawei. The rest of the UFB network is Alcatel Lucent/Nokia I believe.

 

Personally I think most of this has to do with economic power and not data/communications security. Huawei is a massive company that did not gain it's market position unaided through regular market competition, it may be competing on the international market on the up and up but it's still doing so from a privileged position the competition does not have.

 

Economic power is just as much a threat as anything else is.

Of course it's economic. Huawei will become the number one smartphone company in the next five years or so. The US ban will only prolong the inevitable. However that doesn't stop lawmakers and lobbyists from trying to stop the 'Chinese invasion'.

 

Huawei has had security clearance in the EU before installing equipment. The US is obviously more paranoid though and it does have some merit. I mean there is a chance their sweeps failed somewhere. But it has little do with EU military research though. The point was the US is more conservative in this regard and always have been but more so under the current administration.

 

Huawei is receiving some backing in China. Especially in the legal department. They've been allowed to operate with little scrutiny (other than making sure they follow party lines of course) and have been free to copy foreign competitors. They've probably received financial and technological aid through the government but nothing that can be proven.

 

Then again, isn't Samsung operating similarly under very favorable conditions in South Korea? Difference is that Samsung controls/influences the government instead of the other way around in the case of Huawei.

 

The thing is you can't restrict a free market for certain companies just because it's foreign with the laws put in place by most Western countries. That's why the US is using alternative methods to get rid of them. It isn't the first time we see liberty being challenged in favor of doing what lawmakers want; doing what they think is right or necessary. It's a constant battle because most constitutions (and the laws surrounding it) are very firm on liberties coming first much to the frustration of lawmakers (and their constituents and lobbyists).

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

The thing is you can't restrict a free market for certain companies just because it's foreign with the laws put in place by most Western countries. That's why the US is using alternative methods to get rid of them. It isn't the first time we see liberty being challenged in favor of doing what lawmakers want; doing what they think is right or necessary. It's a constant battle because most constitutions (and the laws surrounding it) are very firm on liberties coming first much to the frustration of lawmakers (and their constituents and lobbyists).

One of the major complaints is that Huawei operates the majority of it's business in a non free market which gives them the advantage when they go out to foreign free markets, though it's strange that the proposed solution to this problem is by also making their own markets not free as well. Seems like a 'two can play at that game' response.

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

One of the major complaints is that Huawei operates the majority of it's business in a non free market which gives them the advantage when they go out to foreign free markets, though it's strange that the proposed solution to this problem is by also making their own markets not free as well. Seems like a 'two can play at that game' response.

It's similar to the classic "tolerating the intolerant" problem in that by following the laws and rights you allow a potential problem to thrive and maybe eventually allow it to entrench itself or even dominate essentially undermining or destroying the previous freedom. In this case it's to allow Huawei to first entrench itself and may end up eliminating competition through unfair foreign state backing (if they receive backing that is). If they are competing through unfair means should they be allowed to compete at all? Should they have the freedom to compete through any means necessary within the boundaries of the law? 

As far as I'm aware Huawei isn't breaking any American law even if they're backed by China at home as long as China doesn't interfere directly on American soil.

 

It's a conundrum full of contradictions and one that is hard to solve. I don't believe anyone has solved it successfully.

 

I have a few examples of the problem but I figure it'll end up being too political and will just end up getting the thread locked. It would also steer it off topic.

 

In any case I feel like the US should employ different methods. Or more honest methods at least. This is purely an economic protection ploy. Yet it's hidden under the guise of national security.

[.Ocean]

On 1/19/2018 at 4:49 AM, Nena360 said:

Sauce 2: https://www.androidauthority.com/why-us-carriers-wont-sell-the-best-phone-in-the-world-829694/

 

Note: There is still no proof Huawei devices are in-secure, or have spyware in them & finally there is no CIA, FBI or NSA backdoor. :3

I hate to break it to you but this article cites an investigation done in 2012 directed towards Huawei and it found no conclusive evidence of spyware. 6 years have passed and a lot can happen in that time. Namely a security research team in Virginia found Huawei's phone we're infected with spyware that was installed on the firmware level.

 

For those curious the spyware would collect private data including contact lists, sms messages, calling history, and much more and would encrypt then upload it to the firmware update server obfuscating the fact that anything was out of place.

 

Huawei brushed it off as a way to 'improve customer experience's but I wouldn't but one of their phones under any circumstances. In my opinion as an actual security researcher Huawei is not a company you can trust.

 

 

Here's a quick article on what the security team in Virginia found. https://www.cyberscoop.com/android-malware-china-huawei-zte-kryptowire-blu-products/

[Nena Trinity]

2 hours ago, .Ocean said:

I hate to break it to you but this article cites an investigation done in 2012 directed towards Huawei and it found no conclusive evidence of spyware. 6 years have passed and a lot can happen in that time. Namely a security research team in Virginia found Huawei's phone we're infected with spyware that was installed on the firmware level.

 

For those curious the spyware would collect private data including contact lists, sms messages, calling history, and much more and would encrypt then upload it to the firmware update server obfuscating the fact that anything was out of place.

 

Huawei brushed it off as a way to 'improve customer experience's but I wouldn't but one of their phones under any circumstances. In my opinion as an actual security researcher Huawei is not a company you can trust.

 

 

Here's a quick article on what the security team in Virginia found. https://www.cyberscoop.com/android-malware-china-huawei-zte-kryptowire-blu-products/

Everyone in my family trust them more than Apple or Samsung, also most phones does send data back just like Tinno OEM devices all do that which is to inform that the phone is activated and how long it remain active. :3