DVD audio quality vs CD audio quality?

[Cereal_Killer]

I plan on buying a couple Live albums from Iron Maiden. However, something I've been wondering about is whether I should go with CD albums or the DVDs from the shows. I know for a fact that shows like Death on the Road are absolutely awesome in terms of choreography and showmanship, but I also wouldn't want to sacrifice audio quality compared to a CD. Is audio quality on DVD movies better than on CDs? Worse? No difference?

And for that matter, I'll definitely be ordering their newer shows like Flight 666 and En Vivo, as well as Live at River Plate from AC/DC on Blu-Ray, but since Blu-Ray has so much space, I assume the audio quality is at least equivalent to the CDs from the same shows?

[Mira Yurizaki]

It depends on how it was encoded. Best guess is it's not going to be any different.

[weq]

It doesn't matter it is Iron Maiden.

[Dujith]

DVD will have a higher Sample Rate and higher amount of bits per sample in most cases.

CD: 44,1Khz 16bit 2 channels

DVD 96Khz 24bit multiple channels

 

I know many ppl myself included who have concerts on DVD for just that reason

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, Dujith said:

DVD will have a higher Sample Rate and higher amount of bits per sample in most cases.

CD: 44,1Khz 16bit 2 channels

DVD 96Khz 24bit multiple channels

 

I know many ppl myself included who have concerts on DVD for just that reason

That's if we're talking about DVD-Audio.

I believe this is DVD-Video; in that case, it'd likely be 2 channel Dolby Digital audio at 224kbps with a 48000hz sampling rate.

[AshleyAshes]

This really depends on the disc.  An NTSC DVD-Video disc must contain one of two audio formats, Dolby Digital, which is a lossy compression system, or LPCM which is the same thing used on an Audio CD only a DVD would use 48khz instead of 44.1.  However weather the DVD uses DD or LPCM would be up to whoever authored the disc so this would vary on a disc by disc basis.  In addition to one or two of the mandatory formats, a DVD can also additional lossy tracks such as DTS.

 

There is ALSO the DVD-Audio standard which is an uncommon audio only disc that uses a DVD disc, it is unique from the DVD-Video standard and would use different audio formats.  You've not been clear as to which these is but I'm guessing it's DVD-Video.

 

Blu-Ray can use more formats including lossless multichannel options like DTS Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD, but a Bluray could also just as easily use lossy Dolby Digital or DTS instead.  Or it could use LPCM.  Again, this would vary on a disc per disc basis, no one can tell you outright without knowing the details of the specific disc you are looking at.

[DJfern94]

In terms of the actual audio quality, my research during my masters degree found that many people could not tell the difference between the 44.1kHz and 48kHz standards used by CD's and DVD's respectively, however you will find that DVDs will normally allow for 5.1 surround sound (this will be explicit on the back of the box). 

 

But yeah, in theory, DVD's "SHOULD" have a higher perceived audio quality.

[Cereal_Killer]

Just now, Dujith said:

DVD will have a higher Sample Rate and higher amount of bits per sample in most cases.

CD: 44,1Khz 16bit 2 channels

DVD 96Khz 24bit multiple channels

 

I know many ppl myself included who have concerts on DVD for just that reason

That depends on how the audio was recorded, though doesn't it? I can upscale my .wav files from my CDs from 44.1KHz to 96KHz and there won't be no difference. Since the CDs were recorded with professional studio equipment, I'm assured (or at least hoping) that all the space available on a CD has been utilized. When it comes to live shows, though, I have no idea what kind if equipment they're recorded with, so I don't know if the extra KHz and bits even matter.

[DJfern94]

1 minute ago, Cereal_Killer said:

That depends on how the audio was recorded, though doesn't it? I can upscale my .wav files from my CDs from 44.1KHz to 96KHz and there won't be no difference. Since the CDs were recorded with professional studio equipment, I'm assured (or at least hoping) that all the space available on a CD has been utilized. When it comes to live shows, though, I have no idea what kind if equipment they're recorded with, so I don't know if the extra KHz and bits even matter.

You can guarantee they will have at least been recording at 48kHz 24bits.

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, Cereal_Killer said:

That depends on how the audio was recorded, though doesn't it? I can upscale my .wav files from my CDs from 44.1KHz to 96KHz and there won't be no difference.

Actually, the waveform would be interpolated to make it 96khz, so there would be a difference, it'd actually be a destructive transformation.  (Granted one that'd be so subtle, I doubt any human could perceive it, but mathematically speaking, there be a difference)

[Dujith]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

That's if we're talking about DVD-Audio.

I believe this is DVD-Video; in that case, it'd likely be 2 channel Dolby Digital audio at 224kbps with a 48000hz sampling rate.

Concerts tend to be in DTS and much higher bitrate then that. But yeah, check the box for that info. Not all DVD are the same  

[Mira Yurizaki]

Boop.

 

You can't guarantee a DVD video uses one audio format or another. There are several official audio profiles and those include CD audio quality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video#Audio_data

[Dujith]

3 minutes ago, Cereal_Killer said:

That depends on how the audio was recorded, though doesn't it? I can upscale my .wav files from my CDs from 44.1KHz to 96KHz and there won't be no difference. Since the CDs were recorded with professional studio equipment, I'm assured (or at least hoping) that all the space available on a CD has been utilized. When it comes to live shows, though, I have no idea what kind if equipment they're recorded with, so I don't know if the extra KHz and bits even matter.

I am talking about quality recordings ofc  cannot polish a turd.

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, Dujith said:

Concerts tend to be in DTS and much higher bitrate then that. But yeah, check the box for that info. Not all DVD are the same  

Yeah, if it's in DTS then I'd be much less surprised to see it at a higher bitrate. Rarely does 2ch DD come in any higher than something like 224kbps.

[Cereal_Killer]

6 minutes ago, DJfern94 said:

In terms of the actual audio quality, my research during my masters degree found that many people could not tell the difference between the 44.1kHz and 48kHz standards used by CD's and DVD's respectively, however you will find that DVDs will normally allow for 5.1 surround sound (this will be explicit on the back of the box). 

 

But yeah, in theory, DVD's "SHOULD" have a higher perceived audio quality.

I did tests myself. I compared 1411kbps WAVs to 128kbps MP3s, and while the WAVs were indeed audibly better, the difference was surprisingly small. When I did tests between 320kbps and 1411kbps FLACs, I'm 90% sure the perceived difference was just placebo effect. I didn't do something silly like upscale 128kbps MP3s to 1411kbps WAVs and then compare the two; I ripped my CDs to WAVs and then converted these to MP3 in the first test, and in the second I downloaded the music in both FLAC and MP3 from the original creator on Bandcamp

 

I can't find any information on the Amazon pages, but just for the curious, this is some of the stuff I'm planning on buying:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000FBG080/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004QPOVE6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006R7NJHG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

[Dujith]

@Cereal_Killer Btw, as a good answer to your original question: The DVD will be the same or better then the CD if both have the same source.

So no reason to not get the DVD imo.

[DJfern94]

Just now, Cereal_Killer said:

I did tests myself. I compared 1411kbps WAVs to 128kbps MP3s, and while the WAVs were indeed audibly better, the difference was surprisingly small. When I did tests between 320kbps and 1411kbps FLACs, I'm 90% sure the perceived difference was just placebo effect.

 

I can't find any information on the Amazon pages, but just for the curious, this is some of the stuff I'm planning on buying:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000FBG080/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004QPOVE6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006R7NJHG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

I don't know how aware you are of nyquist theorem, but the biggest difference can usually be perceived when listening to audio under 44.1kHz, as the sampling theory has to be at least twice the value of the highest pitch of the audio track. So, in theory, our hearing only goes up to 20kHz, so a sampling frequency of 44.1kHz SHOULD contain all the audio we need to hear. Anything below 44.1kHz usually sounds muffled. 

 

There was a PhD student at the university doing a lot of research into all the ultra high-frequency stuff, recording violins with high-frequency mics and playing it back at over 192kHz... After hours and hours of listening to all that audio, I can honestly say, 48kHz is where I cap out and everything else is just a bigger number for bigger number's sake.

 

 

[Cereal_Killer]

10 minutes ago, weq said:

It doesn't matter it is Iron Maiden.

Exactly the opposite. Because it's Iron Maiden, I don't want a half-assed product

8 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

There is ALSO the DVD-Audio standard which is an uncommon audio only disc that uses a DVD disc, it is unique from the DVD-Video standard and would use different audio formats.  You've not been clear as to which these is but I'm guessing it's DVD-Video.

DVD-Video. It's a concert with both audio and video recorded and distributed on a DVD disc.

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, Cereal_Killer said:

Exactly the opposite. Because it's Iron Maiden, I don't want a half-assed product

DVD-Video. It's a concert with both audio and video recorded and distributed on a DVD disc.

Well, it's still going to vary by disc.  But there's plenty of disc review sites that lists all audio track formats, so I'd look up the specific discs you're interested in.

[Cereal_Killer]

4 minutes ago, Dujith said:

@Cereal_Killer Btw, as a good answer to your original question: The DVD will be the same or better then the CD if both have the same source.

So no reason to not get the DVD imo.

This is a very good response. It's less about the bit-rate or frequency, since pretty much anything above CD is redundant, but if DVDs usually don't offer audio quality inferior to CDs then it's all good.

[DJfern94]

Also, it looks like the DVDs do contain 5.1 support, I would dare say that would be a way bigger perceived difference than any slight difference between the audio quality of CD vs DVD

[Cereal_Killer]

Just now, DJfern94 said:

Also, it looks like the DVDs do contain 5.1 support, I would dare say that would be a way bigger perceived difference than any slight difference between the audio quality of CD vs DVD

I'm not sure if it matters much; I don't have an expensive home theater system. I'll be listening to the concerts with my headphones, and watching them either on my PC or on my TV. I don't have 5 speakers and a subwoofer in my cans

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, DJfern94 said:

Also, it looks like the DVDs do contain 5.1 support, I would dare say that would be a way bigger perceived difference than any slight difference between the audio quality of CD vs DVD

Honestly, I think this is the best way to go about it. Proper 5.1 channel mixing (of course with a decent bitrate) would be of a much bigger perceivable difference than lossless audio.

 

Just now, Cereal_Killer said:

I'm not sure if it matters much; I don't have an expensive home theater system. I'll be listening to the concerts with my headphones, and watching them either on my PC or on my TV. I don't have 5 speakers and a subwoofer in my cans

Meh, most applications that can play DVDs do a decent job with downmixing if you opt to use 5.1 channel tracks.

[DJfern94]

Just now, Cereal_Killer said:

I'm not sure if it matters much; I don't have an expensive home theater system. I'll be listening to the concerts with my headphones, and watching them either on my PC or on my TV. I don't have 5 speakers and a subwoofer in my cans

Will always be nice to have, just in case you get a surround system in the future?

[Cereal_Killer]

Just now, DJfern94 said:

Will always be nice to have, just in case you get a surround system in the future?

I doubt I will, I'm a headphone-lover and a speaker-hater. At least I'm 90% sure I won't get a surround system in the next... 5 years, and I'm not buying music now and thinking about what I'll do with it in 5 years.