Why has Linux not seen mainstream adoption?

[SCHISCHKA]

Linux has seen mainstream adoption from Dell, Intel, and Google. There is an association between computers and Windows in that most people think theres just a Windows PC and Mac even though Mac was the first PC but if you try explain that to most people it will hurt their brains. Just like it hurts their brain when you tell them their computer case is not a hard drive.

 

I'm quite surprise where I see linux being used. It's used widely in journalism and any data profession. It is not being used in accounting which is a pretty big market. It is used widely in hospitality or anywhere where there is POS. They use it on my city's bus network with every terminal running ubuntu. You wont see it on you neighbors PC until you introduce them to it. It is available OEM but not from every OEM.

[MoraisGT]

4 hours ago, Clanscorpia said:

No games, no programs, difficult to fix problems, no real time support

I'm going to sound like Trump but...

 

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, true...

 

There are plenty of games for Linux, inluding AAA titles.

The ammount of software for Linux is absolutely huge.

 

It's easier to fix problems IMO, because it actually tells you what service failed for example, instead of giving you a generic error message and forcing you to spend quite a bit of time going through the internet trying to find someone with a similar issue and then a possible solution.

 

As for real time support, you mean like a support phone line right? Well...

 

What the hell do you need it for?

For 15+ years I've used Windows I only had to resort to calling Microsoft because licenses refused to activate on a PC I changed a component on.

 

 

Regarding the OP's question, it is also partly the fault of people like you that spread that kind of nonsense. People read the first thing they see and start to accept it as true.

[Clanscorpia]

10 hours ago, ChalkChalkson said:

 

Most AAA games dont run on SteamOS. If I build a $1000+ PC I want to be able to run ever game, not just a few. And the 50% thing really doesnt count because the large majority are indie games. If we go AA and AAA titles only a few run on Linux

[Clanscorpia]

6 hours ago, MoraisGT said:

I'm going to sound like Trump but...

 

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, true...

 

There are plenty of games for Linux, inluding AAA titles.

The ammount of software for Linux is absolutely huge.

 

It's easier to fix problems IMO, because it actually tells you what service failed for example, instead of giving you a generic error message and forcing you to spend quite a bit of time going through the internet trying to find someone with a similar issue and then a possible solution.

 

As for real time support, you mean like a support phone line right? Well...

 

What the hell do you need it for?

For 15+ years I've used Windows I only had to resort to calling Microsoft because licenses refused to activate on a PC I changed a component on.

 

 

Regarding the OP's question, it is also partly the fault of people like you that spread that kind of nonsense. People read the first thing they see and start to accept it as true.

Having used Linux theyre all true. 90% of my games didnt run on Linux, and most of them arent high profile. The only one that did iirc was CSGO and that was a bitch to install. Its not easier IMO because unless you know literally every directory in Linux you still have to search things up and then you have to enter super long codes into Terminal which was the reason I said nope to Linux. And the real time support is for consumers. 90% of people cant fix things on their own and having a support makes a big difference. 

[noahdvs]

36 minutes ago, Clanscorpia said:

Having used Linux theyre all true. 90% of my games didnt run on Linux, and most of them arent high profile. The only one that did iirc was CSGO and that was a bitch to install. Its not easier IMO because unless you know literally every directory in Linux you still have to search things up and then you have to enter super long codes into Terminal which was the reason I said nope to Linux. And the real time support is for consumers. 90% of people cant fix things on their own and having a support makes a big difference. 

It's true that there isn't much support from AAA studios and setting up Linux on your machine can either be a breeze with no flaws or a bitch if a piece of hardware doesn't work and you don't know where to go for help, but...

What are you doing, using Linux without a package manager and CS:GO without Steam (if that's possible)? Literally all you have to do to install CS:GO is click install in Steam like you would on Windows. To install other programs, just use the package manager/App store (if your distro has one). No need to install things manually if it's already packaged up for you.

On Ubuntu or Linux Mint (what most beginners should use), you can just go to the App store and install stuff. If you prefer the terminal (like I do), installing something like VLC is as simple as `sudo apt install vlc`.

`sudo` means "super user do" or "give me temporary admin powers", `apt` is the package manager and the rest should be obvious.

[ChalkChalkson]

@SCHISCHKA Ok, the product-placements are ads, didn't think of this.

I also agree with the appstore thing, although I never tried to use the google play store on my Ubuntu desktop, I doubt it actually works, emphasising the fragmentation. If it did work, you just opened a new world for me

A nice thing is, that most distributions are now based on Debian making the distribution of programs way easier.

 

I am not too salty about the whole thing, personally I think every OS has its place, including most Linux distributions. The best thing we as a community can do, is experiment and keep an open mind.

 

[SCHISCHKA]

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

I also agree with the appstore thing, although I never tried to use the google play store on my Ubuntu desktop, I doubt it actually works, emphasising the fragmentation. If it did work, you just opened a new world for me

na i was refering to the fact that android uses the linux kernel. no mainstream linux distro has the android components but there are hacks. chromebooks released in 2017 can run android apps which is awesome.

[pyderf]

I wouldn't agree with that the reason being that Linux operating systems has less popularity, is because of its lack in support, available software(games ,etc...) or how difficult it may be at first, but rather it's commercial value(at least it's current), by which I mean how rare it is that a computer technology company would use Linux in their products.

 

It's not the people who use websites like this, that are the main consumers of all technology today(even though they are a large part of it), but rather it's another part of the population, which probably have the wrong perception of what Linux actually is, or perhaps have never heard of it.

I agree with @ChalkChalkson, if you would take any random person on the street and ask them how Linux looks, or what it even is, they would probably not be very accurate to how it actually is.

[Sirgeorge]

14 hours ago, SCHISCHKA said:

i dont think you understand what linux is https://www.linuxfoundation.org/

linux isnt a company like apple. Think of it more as a public hobby that some kid started and because anybody could join in they did. They do have a good crosscompiler, we know this because linux is on every type of architecture more so than any other OS. That is why it is on almost every super computer, modem, router, multimedia tv box, cell phone, tablet.

here is the biggest app store you may not have heard of it https://play.google.com/store

Its also got steam on the desktop which should not be news. Iv used it for games and work for almost a decade and and having steam available without Wine is awesome.

there was at least one hot chick on youtube doing it, i think thats a start. heres an old one of BSD vs Linux. Linux booth is on the right

 

they are all over the place. any time you see the windows logo. there is prob one on your computer keyboard right now. You will find the windows logo in ads but you didnt think about it until now that i point it out to you

 

 

 

 

Ya, I know what the Linux Foundation is. I was generalizing for the sake of simplicity. You would have conveyed the point better by pointing me to the forked map of all Linux distribs. As for the cross compiler, I'm talking about a cross compiler between Windows and Linux not between different architectures. You know how when Apple bought out NeXT they got NeXT's cross compiler and then Apple went on to cross-compile their OS for years between PowerPC and Intel before they switched out their hardware to Intel? I'm talking about a similar type of move where the Linux foundation releases and distributes an easy to use and complete cross-compiler that allows anyone to take their code and make a Linux standard for it. The best I've seen for this can be seen in Unity where they have a "single button conversion" system which you can tell by the quotations requires a little more work than that. Something similar to that but intended for software in general would help. I mean, why wouldn't Adobe do something to hit 2% of the market if that something only took an afternoon to do? Right now, I suspect it takes much longer and thus is much more expensive and that is a valid reason why not.

[SCHISCHKA]

29 minutes ago, Sirgeorge said:

Ya, I know what the Linux Foundation is. I was generalizing for the sake of simplicity. You would have conveyed the point better by pointing me to the forked map of all Linux distribs. As for the cross compiler, I'm talking about a cross compiler between Windows and Linux not between different architectures. You know how when Apple bought out NeXT they got NeXT's cross compiler and then Apple went on to cross-compile their OS for years between PowerPC and Intel before they switched out their hardware to Intel? I'm talking about a similar type of move where the Linux foundation releases and distributes an easy to use and complete cross-compiler that allows anyone to take their code and make a Linux standard for it. The best I've seen for this can be seen in Unity where they have a "single button conversion" system which you can tell by the quotations requires a little more work than that. Something similar to that but intended for software in general would help. I mean, why wouldn't Adobe do something to hit 2% of the market if that something only took an afternoon to do? Right now, I suspect it takes much longer and thus is much more expensive and that is a valid reason why not.

I think you are describing the Ubuntu SDK. I think Qt might have that cross platform goal. Its up to the developers to support these things. Theres also java which has always had a cross platform goal but it has a terrible gui library

[Sirgeorge]

One well placed millionaire/billionaire that is ideologically driven could accomplish it. Add on a marketing strategy to that as well and you're good to go. Effectively, you need to either be lucky or convince a rich person to do this based on ideology or in order to attack Microsoft (which is more likely).

[Azgoth 2]

I think the biggest reason is that very few people are selling computers with (desktop) Linux pre-installed.  System76 is, Dell sells some of their extremely high-end ones with Ubuntu preloaded, but by and large it's not happening.  It's not on a lot of people's radars as a result, and for a lot of people who do know about it they don't usually have much interest because they have to install a new OS, which can be a scary proposition if you haven't done it before.

 

There's also the lack of official support a la Microsoft or Apple offering tech support (with a few exceptions here and there--Red Hat and Canonical offer this for a fee, but I don't remember if it's just for enterprise licenses or not), meaning if something goes wrong you have to fix it yourself most of the time.  And the fact that most programs people are used to running won't be available--there's no Microsoft Office Linux version, a lot of games don't run, and a lot of media creation tools like Photoshop aren't on the platform.  There are plenty of alternatives to most of these, but people have to 1) find out what they are, 2) learn them, and that's rightfully something most people just don't want to deal with.

 

The persisting largely misleading idea that "Linux is only for hardcore people who spend all their time in the command line" is certainly not helping matters either.  Distributions like Mint, Ubuntu, Manjaro, OpenSUSE to an extent, and even Debian to a good degree are pretty easy to pick up and use out of the box without too much super technical knowledge, but this wasn't so much the case a decade or more ago, and that's probably where a lot of people's impressions are from (not that I can blame them--I'm probably about a decade behind on a lot of things I don't care about but whose existence I am aware of).

[Urishima]

On 18.3.2017 at 8:11 AM, SCHISCHKA said:

there was at least one hot chick on youtube doing it, i think thats a start. heres an old one of BSD vs Linux. Linux booth is on the right

You know what, I am more interested in the old dude with the awesome beard and the propeller beanie than the chick in the cheap latex outfit.

[M.A.P]

On 3/18/2017 at 9:15 AM, Clanscorpia said:

No games, no programs, difficult to fix problems, no real time support

Not totally but upto some extinct yes like editing and modeling software. There are many alternatives for programs that are for Windows. Most of the Steam Library Games work on Linux too. You can use WINE to run Windows applications, maybe even games(Not all games). Not every thing work on Linux but some will work so you are partially correct. I totally agree with you that there is no real time support and is difficult to fix problems to an average user who just wants to select the options but not to type commands or need tinkering with the OS.

[M.A.P]

On 3/18/2017 at 9:09 AM, Sirgeorge said:

I'm just curious as to what others think on this particular issue. Thoughts?

 

(EDIT: forgot to say, yes I meant desktop. I know it is very dominate in practically every other format. I was generalizing).

There are many reasons. There are way too many versions in Linux like Ubuntu, Mint and also the base of the OS like Gnome based, Debain based and all other things which makes the user difficult to chose one even though they do the same tasks every versions have unique appearance or software. Debain based ones are kind of user friendly until you face some problem and need to type long commands to fix them which an average user doesn't want.There are several reasons.

[Spawn0202]

Hey @all

I agree Linux is not easy for starters.

I mean if a think about it, your first contact to a Computer was with some kind of GUI it will be very difficult to understand what a Terminal is or in Windows terms CMD or Dos-Prompt. Understanding that there is another way to communicate with the PC then point and click is hard. Especially if you look in the Linux Forums and see the language/syntax that is used there.

If you take a closer look to switch to Linux the first main problem to overcome is to choose a Linux distribution and there are many.

The second problem is to overcome is to accept that if there is a Problem it is most likely that you will have to use the Terminal including all the typing.

The 3ed thing will be too learn und understand how Linux works and learning again. And hire is one of the big plus thinks on the Linux side in most cases Linux will tell you what is going wrong .

I think most users are not willing to that.

 

Off topic

I am using Linux now for 10+ Years starting with Suse 10.0 and for me the learing curve was quit steep starting with Linux. My first Computer contact was a ZX81.

Now you maybe be scared to make the switch to Linux. If you are willing to put work it to it you will manage it. The Linux community is huge und you will in most cases find Help. If there is anyone who reads this and still wants to make the steep you can give me a shout and I will try to help you with my experience a hand droning my switch to Linux.

I hope my spelling is ok my English is a bit rusty.

[SCHISCHKA]

3 hours ago, Urishima said:

You know what, I am more interested in the old dude with the awesome beard and the propeller beanie than the chick in the cheap latex outfit.

This photo is so old the old man is prob dead. Sorry

[BenMcM]

I use linux every day i used it since 2011 after i got better compnents to be able to run it better tbh linux is kinda superieor to windows but only in functionality windows is obviously better in useability 

[DnFx91]

lack of consistency across the platform in terms of user experience.

Steep learning curve when coming from windows or OSX.

Non-intuitive.

Lacking support for daily computer stuff like games.

Complete lack of functional video editor or DAW

Windows users will never ever get used to apt-get

very easy to break if you don't know what you are doing

 

 

As a point though, Linux is very much in the mainstream already, it's running on mine and a billion other android devices right now so there is that. But you mean desktop so i digress... 

[DnFx91]

On 3/18/2017 at 3:58 AM, Enderman said:

But can you go to literally any website and download an exe and double click it and have your program installed in 5 seconds?

No you can't.

Also, windows is free in multiple ways.

you can, they are called DPKG and DEB which are basically exe files for linux for all intents and purposes. Mainstream programs like chrome and stuff are just as easily installed on linux than on windows, its the less know stuff that you have to search through repositories for with apt-get

[ChuckMaurice]

You also have to consider something else: along to the massive fragmentation Linux has seen in the last ~10 years, some Linux communities are quite "extremists" on open-source software and free licenses, at a point which they don't want to hear about any closed-source software or open-source but not GPL...
You can keep using an entire open-source platform but this is the digital equivalency of being an amish. So not for everyone. And this is another burden the Linux community has, restraining it from mainstream adoption.

[DnFx91]

On 3/18/2017 at 4:49 AM, ChalkChalkson said:

When I setup my Laptop last time I installed the following programs via the center/download of a .deb file:

Steam, Lyx, MakeMKV, Chrome, a generic Python Terminal

and that is pretty much all I really use, I am studying physics with a focus on maths, so I use TeX for documents, most things run in browsers anyway

 

Well there is WINE (WINE Is No Emulator), and it sometimes works! Most of the times is ends horribly, but sometimes it works  

 

Jup, I know that issue (my grandfather switched from Win95 to XP lately), but that is an issue with switching cost and OEMs using windows. But, if I had to introduce someone to PCs, I'd still use Windows, just because googleing for a generic issue will always give you the windows result, and most download links will download an installer exe. 

But, if someone comes from Android or OSX, I think Ubuntu isn't that bad of a choice, since the "Store" concept and not being able to download programs via the browser easily will be familiar to them. 

So the widespread adaptation of smartphones might lead to a generation that can switch more easily to Ubuntu.

lol WINE sucks man, it totally works if you are trying to run super simple shit like notepad.exe, but any windows program that tries doing backend stuff or run services will fall over in WINE every time

[DnFx91]

On 3/18/2017 at 8:44 AM, MoraisGT said:

I'm going to sound like Trump but...

 

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, true...

 

There are plenty of games for Linux, inluding AAA titles.

The ammount of software for Linux is absolutely huge.

 

It's easier to fix problems IMO, because it actually tells you what service failed for example, instead of giving you a generic error message and forcing you to spend quite a bit of time going through the internet trying to find someone with a similar issue and then a possible solution.

 

As for real time support, you mean like a support phone line right? Well...

 

What the hell do you need it for?

For 15+ years I've used Windows I only had to resort to calling Microsoft because licenses refused to activate on a PC I changed a component on.

 

 

Regarding the OP's question, it is also partly the fault of people like you that spread that kind of nonsense. People read the first thing they see and start to accept it as true.

yh but openGL, yuk

[Enderman]

26 minutes ago, DnFx91 said:

you can, they are called DPKG and DEB which are basically exe files for linux for all intents and purposes. Mainstream programs like chrome and stuff are just as easily installed on linux than on windows, its the less know stuff that you have to search through repositories for with apt-get

Guess what? 99.99999% of programs do not have a DPBK or DEB option.

Literally the only programs of mine that have linux support and google chrome and 7 zip, none of the other 30 or whatever.

[noahdvs]

51 minutes ago, DnFx91 said:

lack of consistency across the platform in terms of user experience.

Steep learning curve when coming from windows or OSX.

Non-intuitive.

Lacking support for daily computer stuff like games.

Complete lack of functional video editor or DAW

Windows users will never ever get used to apt-get

very easy to break if you don't know what you are doing

 

 

As a point though, Linux is very much in the mainstream already, it's running on mine and a billion other android devices right now so there is that. But you mean desktop so i digress... 

A lack of consistency across distros is not a problem. Just keep using the same distro.

 

The learning curve varies wildly depending on the kind of user you are. I've given Ubuntu to elderly people who found it easier to use than Windows while a gamer using Gentoo as their first distro will probably have a hard time.

 

Intuitiveness is completely subjective, but it's true that some distros will be more difficult to use.

 

It's true that there is a lack of support from game developers, but support for Linux is getting better and not too slowly either, partly thanks to Valve developing the Steam machine. Out of the 108 games I own on Steam, 56 can be played natively on Linux. I don't focus on buying games for Linux either and most of them are well known.

 

Kdenlive is actually a pretty good free video editor. It even looks somewhat like the old Windows Movie Maker from Windows XP (but prettier), so it didn't take me too long to figure it out when I was trying to edit a video for a bug report. DaVinci Resolve is also available on Linux, but only if you pay for it. Scratch that, Davinci Resolve for Linux is now available for free.

 

As for DAWs, there's Ardour, Renoise and Bitwig. There are more, but these are the best.

 

Windows users don't need to get used to apt-get. Synaptic Package Manager and the Software Store exist, though I actually prefer using apt since it's faster.

 

Windows is very easy to break too if you don't know what you're doing. Maybe more so than Linux.

Edited March 20, 2017 by noahdvs
Correction