Sony FDR-AX33 4K or Sony HDR-CX405?

[Wario]

Hi!

 

I'd like to upgrade from my awful  Aiptek PocketDV AHD Z700 to a real HD camcorder. It should have the following features:

 

- good image quality even in dark places / indoors (highly important!)

- high bit-rate so that it doesn't look pixelated

- image stabilization

- photos should also be possible

 

Two camcorders have caught my attention:

 

- Sony HDR-CX405 (€219, Full HD up to 50fps)

- Sony FDR-AX33 (€749, 4K up to 25fps)

 

Is 4K worth the additional 500 bucks? Is the 4K camcorder better than the HD camcorder even when filming in "only" Full HD? What do you think?

 

 

 

[ShadowCaptain]

9 minutes ago, Wario said:

SNIP

I would buy an RX10 instead, larger sensor, better lens, insanely better photos

 

it takes STUNNING video, decent AF etc

 

https://www.amazon.de/Sony-DSC-RX10-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-Zoomobjektiv/dp/B00FWUDEEW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466171089&sr=8-1&keywords=rx10

 

[Enderman]

you should probably look up the 1080p recording specs of the 4k cam to know this

8 minutes ago, Wario said:

Is 4K worth the additional 500 bucks? Is the 4K camcorder better than the HD camcorder even when filming in "only" Full HD?

because if it says 1080p 50fps like the other one, then no, it will look the same

but if it can record 4k 25fps it might be able to do 1080p 100 or something like that

you never know until you check

 

[mariushm]

There's much more difference than resolution between those models.

 

The 405 has no external microphone input, no headphones output, no shoe to install external lights or external microphone. The AX33 has external mic in through jack and shoe, headphones out, shoe to mount additional stuff to camera. 

The 405 has a 1/5.8 sensor , ax33 has a larger 1/2.8 sensor. The larger sensor in the 4k (even if there's more tightly packed cells in the sensor) make it better for low light and other things. Even if you record at 1080p, ax33 will still produce better image quality especially when saving in XAVC-S  (an improved h264, with more quality retained) .. apparently 405 also records in xavc-s but still...

The ax33 is also balanced optical steady shot, which means the whole sensor and lens mechanism is floating inside the camera and some tiny servo motors keep it steady automatically so it's much better and image stabilization, great if you're hands are shaking or you're recording on a bike, car etc. The 405 is just plain optical stabilization, it records an image larger than 1080p and automatically crops an 1080p image out of it. My HDR-CX410VE camera has balanced optical steady shot and I love it, but this particular model is no longer produced.

The AX33 also has wifi and nfc, the 405 i don't think it has.

 

Not sure if it's worth the extra $500, but the specs are very good for ax33 otherwise.

 

For something in-between you may want to look at something like HDR-CX625 : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HDR-CX625-Camcorder-Balanced-SteadyShot/dp/B01B5TELBI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_421_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=41Oi3-pwc9L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=9TJV4YA3M6MNRSFTP4HK

Balanced optical stabilization, mic in , headphones, xavc-s, nfc, wireless streaming, but same smaller sensor as the 405 for a few hundred uk pounds less compared to ax33 and only full hd.

[Wario]

Thank you for your replies, this is much appreciated!

 

@ShadowCaptain

Hm, that camera seems to be for photos first-and-foremost. I'm not sure if it's the thing I'm looking for and it seems quite expensive for "just" Full HD. I did download a night-time video example and am amazed at how good the video quality is in the dark! There's hardly any noise! The image appears to be a bit blurry though when moving. If that camera was able to record in 4K then I'd have definitely chosen that one. Is there a similar camera like this that can do 4K?

 

@Enderman and mariushm

Thanks for your suggestions! The 4K camcorder seems superior then. I don't really care about Wi-Fi, external microphone input etc. though.

[ALwin]

5 hours ago, Wario said:

snip

What do you want to use them for?

 

The AX33 should be better than the CX405, however is the extra cost worth what you will do with the camera?

5 hours ago, Enderman said:

because if it says 1080p 50fps like the other one, then no, it will look the same

but if it can record 4k 25fps it might be able to do 1080p 100 or something like that

Not necessarily, just because a camcorder can record 4K@24/25/30p doesn't necessarily mean it can record 1080p@100p or higher.  Sony has another 4K camcorder above the FDR AX33 which can do 1080p100/120p, the FDR AX100.  I don't think Sony will want to cannibalize the sales of the AX100 for the AX33.

 

5 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

I would buy an RX10 instead, larger sensor, better lens, insanely better photos

People have different needs.  And for someone looking to buy a camera to record video, the AX33 seems to offer better video recording options in a single package compared to the RX10.

[Enderman]

7 minutes ago, ALwin said:

 

Not necessarily, just because a camcorder can record 4K@24/25/30p doesn't necessarily mean it can record 1080p@100p or higher.  Sony has another 4K camcorder above the FDR AX33 which can do 1080p100/120p, the FDR AX100.  I don't think Sony will want to cannibalize the sales of the AX100 for the AX33.

 

"might"

"check"

"something like that"

[ALwin]

3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

"might"

"check"

"something like that"

The FDR AX33 can only do 1080@60p max.

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, ALwin said:

The FDR AX33 can only do 1080@60p max.

yeah see, more than 50

not worth it though imo

[ALwin]

6 minutes ago, Enderman said:

yeah see, more than 50

not worth it though imo

I was talking about the 100fps or more recording.

 

Additionally the AX33 has a better sensor than the CX405, including a better lens, an eyecup viewfinder, an MI hotshoe, and quite possibly better integrated mics.  The UHD quality of the AX33 is also pretty good.

[ShadowCaptain]

37 minutes ago, ALwin said:

People have different needs.  And for someone looking to buy a camera to record video, the AX33 seems to offer better video recording options in a single package compared to the RX10.

I know, but the RX10 is as much as camcorder as the others as well as a great stills camera, plus very good low light with the 1" sensor  the RX10 is basically a camcorder with decent af, all in one zoom lens, great video quality, good low light, good bitrate and video options, really nice display and EVF and ability to get some nice shallow DOF

 

That said, the AX33 is a top notch camcorder  for the price its 4k image really shines above most cameras at this price

[Wario]

Thanks again for your replies!

 

I tried to find some uncompressed sample videos of the CX405 but I couldn't find any. There are some videos on YouTube but I honestly found these to be of very underwhelming quality. This isn't much better than the Aiptek one I own.

 

My friend recommended the GoPro HERO4 Black Adventure camcorder. It can do 4K@30fps and 1080p@60fps with 60mbit which is really amazing at that price. It does look weird though and there does not seem to be a preview screen so I don't actually see what I'm recording??

 

How does the video quality of the GoPro compare to the FDR-AX33?

[ALwin]

43 minutes ago, Wario said:

uncompressed sample videos of the CX405

I hardly doubt there would be uncompressed samples for the CX405, though it does record XAVC-S with 50mbps bit rate.  Especially not on YouTube as it processes any and all video that is uploaded.

 

For the GoPro, you would have to buy a small monitor as an accessory to preview what is being recorded.

 

The FDR AX33 would beat the GoPro hands down, they are two different cameras aimed at different uses.

[Wario]

Hm... is there a way to connect the GoPro to a netbook? I remember that I successfully connected my Canon PowerShot camera to my PC and was able to preview what the camera was recording on VLC Media Player. I don't know anymore how I did it though...

 

Is there a HUGE difference in video quality or is it minor? Are there some video samples of the GoPro and of the AX33 that I could download?

[ALwin]

9 minutes ago, Wario said:

Hm... is there a way to connect the GoPro to a netbook? I remember that I successfully connected my Canon PowerShot camera to my PC and was able to preview what the camera was recording on VLC Media Player. I don't know anymore how I did it though...

 

Is there a HUGE difference in video quality or is it minor? Are there some video samples of the GoPro and of the AX33 that I could download?

If the GoPro has an HDMI out port.  As for via USB, I am not sure.

 

Google sample video files for each camera.

[Wario]

I googled it and couldn't find anything besides poorly-compressed YouTube videos.

I downloaded these two videos with the highest quality-settings:

 

GoPro Hero 4

Sony FDR-AX33 4K Video Sample

 

They both look absolutely awful in my opinion. Highly pixelated and very mushy. It's probably because the camera is constantly moving in these two videos, or maybe it's because of YouTube, or maybe my PC just can't handle 4K video, I don't know...

 

I still don't know what to do...

[ALwin]

2 minutes ago, Wario said:

snip

You're judging the quality based on YouTube's compression, the unknown video producing/editing skills of the uploaders, and on consumer grade cameras.  Don't expect IMAX quality Hollywood blockbusters.

 

[ShadowCaptain]

1 hour ago, Wario said:

I googled it and couldn't find anything besides poorly-compressed YouTube videos.

I downloaded these two videos with the highest quality-settings:

 

GoPro Hero 4

 

 

Yet the same go pro can do this!!!  - its down to the user as  much as it the camera

 

 

[mariushm]

I took the liberty of downloading 3 of the most popular videos showing 4k footage shot with the FDR-AX33 camera and uploaded them to a ftp server, so you can download and view them at your convenience :

Link : ftp://helpedia.com/pub/temp/_fdr-ax33_footage/  The server supports resume and everything.

 

There's MP4 and WEBM versions of each clip. Youtube recompresses every video it receives, so it's not quite the best the camera can record, but still... these are the best versions Youtube has.

In theory, the WEBM version which uses the VP9 codec is better quality due to slightly higher bitrate but decoding it requires more processing power and may not play well on your PC.

MP4 uses the classic h264 codec and uses less resources to play, so if you don't have at least a quad core PC from the last 3-4 years you may want to download those files. 

 

On Windows, the best player (or at least the one I like) is Media Player Classic Home Cinema : https://mpc-hc.org/

 

ps. the files will be there for a few days and then i'll delete them.

[Wario]

Thanks again for the replies!

I know that I can't expect movie-like quality from these camcorders... but there should be a significant difference in quality compared to my Aiptek camera, otherwise it would not be worth the investment.

 

On another note, buying a "good as new" camera from Amazon marketplace from a "new" seller with no feedback for less than half the price of a brand-new camera wouldn't be a good idea, right? Some people are selling the Sony DSC-RX10 SLR for only €320 and the GoPro HERO4 Black Adventure for €220.

 

EDIT: The video footage looks alright but I wish there was more material with poor/artificial lighting or interior shots.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Wario
Added something

[Wario]

Hello,

today I read the "Stiftung Warentest" magazine (a very reputable testing magazine) and action cams were tested. The GoPro Hero 4 only got a "satisfactory" result while the "Sony FDRX1000VR" got the best result - especially in video quality and low-light conditions. It's also very affordable at only €400. The only "bad" thing about the Sony Action Cam was the somewhat poor audio quality.

 

How does the Sony FDRX1000VR compare to the Sony FDR-AX33? If it holds up fairly well then I'm definitely going to buy that one.

 

EDIT: Reviewers complain about "skewed" fish-eyed videos and now I'm kinda bummed

I don't want my videos to look like that:

[ShadowCaptain]

On 01/07/2016 at 3:09 PM, Wario said:

SNIP

An action cam is not a camcorder (or dslr/mirrorless) replacement

 

They shoot good video, but really unless you are actually using them for sports/action shots, they are not a good option and nowhere near the quality, capability or functionality of a proper camera

 

you can correct fish eye in editing, or select a none wide mode on most action cameras

[Wario]

Okay, I realize that I simply can't get a good 4K camcorder for cheap now!

I found another video where someone compares the 4K consumer camcorder's by Sony - the Sony FDR-AX33, The Sony FDR-AX53 and the Sony FDR-AX100:

 

At 20:20 you can see differences in low-light conditions. The Sony FDR-AX53 is noticeably better in low-light conditions than the Sony FDR-AX33. The AX53 is €200 more than the AX33 - do you think that's worth the price? Also, what is the difference between the AX53 and the AX100? The AX100 is double the price of an AX33 and does not seem to offer additional features (like 4K@50fps)...

[ShadowCaptain]

16 hours ago, Wario said:

Also, what is the difference between the AX53 and the AX100? The AX100 is double the price of an AX33 and does not seem to offer additional features (like 4K@50fps)...

The AX100 has a 1" sensor which is much larger than the typcical camcorder sensors, it will be better in low light, give you a great ability to have a shallow depth of field etc - the RX100 has this sensor

 

Here is a 3 way comparison

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/compare/Sony_FDR-AX53_vs_Sony_FDR-AX33_vs_Sony_FDR-AX100/BHitems/1211905-REG_1109387-REG_1064108-REG

[Wario]

Quote

the RX100 has this sensor

Too bad that it doesn't support 4K video though.

 

Alright, I think I've finally made up my mind! I think I'm going to buy the Sony FDR-AX53. While similar to the AX33 and €200 more expensive, its low-light picture quality amazed me enough to justify the extra cost compared to the AX33. The AX100 simply does not offer enough for me to justify spending €1669 even though its sensor size beat those of the other camcorders. I could afford it but I'm too stingy with my money.

 

Should I buy this thing now for €950 or are there new or upcoming camcorders / cameras with similar functionality for lower prices? Wait or buy?