Apple up to no good? They could possibly be intentionally slowing down older devices.

[Victorious Secret]

I didn't report anything?

I'm not a Apple fanboy? Just because I don't agree with a garbage article with no real facts doesn't make me a fanboy.

Keep your petulance in check, that kind of attitude will get you no where.

This isn't personal.

Just because someone disagree doesn't make them a fanboy. Stop with ad hominem statements.

Find a proper article with proper data. Not a freaking user poll. That isn't scientific. It isn't valid. It's sensationalist garbage.

[DeViLzzz]

I didn't report anything? I'm not a Apple fanboy? Just because I don't agree with a garbage article with no real facts doesn't make me a fanboy. Keep your petulance in check, that kind of attitude will get you no where. This isn't personal. Just because someone disagree doesn't make them a fanboy. Stop with ad hominem statements. Find a proper article with proper data. Not a freaking user poll. That isn't scientific. It isn't valid. It's sensationalist garbage.

Your questions you posed in this post don't make any sense.  Use the question mark properly in the future.

In regards to what you said here you say you are not making things personal but it surely seems like you are as you have taken your same attitude to other threads I have started.  You also only took the last portion of my post to comment on because you wanted a fight.  I shouldn't have handed you that to use and when I typed it out I had thought of erasing it but it does not change what I think of you.  You may not be a fan boy but you sure as heck are something else.  Don't tell me what to post.  As for the topic and articles not being valid if Apple thinks it isn't let us see them defend themselves and show it is wrong.  I expect they will keep quiet and their silence will show that I and others are right about our opinions of them.  It would not surprise me if it is true that they are intentionally slowing down older devices.  Heck look at what Ubisoft did to a game to make more money as they intentionally gimped the graphics so the game would look the same on all platforms so they would sell more copies of Watch Dogs on the next gen consoles and were probably bribed to do it.  If you think companies don't do shady things to make money you are living in some sort of world that is not planet Earth.  Get in touch with reality Victorious Secret.

[Qub3d]

ITT: People who do not like acknowledging how much moore's law can suck. 

 

Newer, faster hardware comes out. OSes and developers are going to leverage the new power. Consider just how incredibly hard it can be to continue backwards compatibility over more than four or five iterations! Also, as pointed out so nicely here, Mobile phones deal with a lot of crap over the two-ish years most people own them for. Combined with the extra examination of our phones right before a new release when we notice "hey, my phone seems slower than when I first bought it" (a huge No shit, Sherlock right there), and we convince ourselves that we need new phones just fine without Apple wasting time and money on idiotic schemes such as this.

 

To sum up, allow me to quote the gizmodo article posted earlier: "Saying Apple plans the obsolescence of iPhones is like saying Dole plans the obsolescence of bananas."

[dalekphalm]

As for the topic and articles not being valid if Apple thinks it isn't let us see them defend themselves and show it is wrong.  I expect they will keep quiet and their silence will show that I and others are right about our opinions of them. 

I'm sorry, but WHAT? Can you please explain the logic behind this? If they don't comment, that doesn't automatically prove you right. That's complete nonsense! Hypothetically speaking, if Apple was innocent, they probably consider this "study" completely silly and will accordingly ignore it. Why should they comment? There's no facts and there's been no tests. There's literally no actual evidence to support it.

 

This is the point that I have, and that I'm 99% sure that @Victorious Secret also has: The burden of proof is on the accuser. In this case, that would be the original authors of the study, and by extension, the authors of the news articles, and by extension, yes that would also include you @DeViLzzz

 

The funniest part about this thread is that fanboyism has no part in it. Victorious isn't an Apple fanboy. In fact, I'd say he's a critical and independent thinker, because he's not willing to take a meaningless article at it's word.

 

Where are the tests? The benchmarks? The before and after comparisons? Show me proof, and you will change my mind. Show me proof, and I'll be right there beside you, shouting to the heavens about how anti-consumer it is.

 

I'll just sit here and wait.

[DeViLzzz]

I'm sorry, but WHAT? Can you please explain the logic behind this? If they don't comment, that doesn't automatically prove you right. That's complete nonsense! Hypothetically speaking, if Apple was innocent, they probably consider this "study" completely silly and will accordingly ignore it. Why should they comment? There's no facts and there's been no tests. There's literally no actual evidence to support it.

 

This is the point that I have, and that I'm 99% sure that @Victorious Secret also has: The burden of proof is on the accuser. In this case, that would be the original authors of the study, and by extension, the authors of the news articles, and by extension, yes that would also include you @DeViLzzz

 

The funniest part about this thread is that fanboyism has no part in it. Victorious isn't an Apple fanboy. In fact, I'd say he's a critical and independent thinker, because he's not willing to take a meaningless article at it's word.

 

Where are the tests? The benchmarks? The before and after comparisons? Show me proof, and you will change my mind. Show me proof, and I'll be right there beside you, shouting to the heavens about how anti-consumer it is.

 

I'll just sit here and wait.

Take a downer dalekphalm.  You have made your points.

[dalekphalm]

Take a downer dalekphalm.  Seriously I would hope others think you are taking things too far.

Great response. So what is the point of this comment, exactly? To completely ignore a valid counter-argument asking for proof before getting the pitchforks out? You've already condemned Apple, yet there's no proof that this is even true. Whether I (or you) think it's true is 100% irrelevant. We live in a society where you can't just go accusing people (or companies) of whatever you want, without proof. This system works very well, since as you can imagine, in the past when accusations were enough, many innocents suffered because of it.

 

Also, could you please, after you've actually responded to my completely rational request for evidence, then tell me what you mean by "taking things too far?" Do you mean that asking for evidence is taking things too far? Seriously, I just don't understand where you're going with this at all.

 

This is so sensationalist, and no it's not news. It MIGHT be news - you know - if anyone can back up these claims with fact. But that time hasn't happened yet. This could have been a worthy news post if you had instead said that they should then backup their claims with fact - rather then just arbitrarily deciding that Apple is "guilty". Why is the concept of proof of burden that difficult?

[DeViLzzz]

Great response. So what is the point of this comment, exactly? To completely ignore a valid counter-argument asking for proof before getting the pitchforks out? You've already condemned Apple, yet there's no proof that this is even true. Whether I (or you) think it's true is 100% irrelevant. We live in a society where you can't just go accusing people (or companies) of whatever you want, without proof. This system works very well, since as you can imagine, in the past when accusations were enough, many innocents suffered because of it.

 

Also, could you please, after you've actually responded to my completely rational request for evidence, then tell me what you mean by "taking things too far?" Do you mean that asking for evidence is taking things too far? Seriously, I just don't understand where you're going with this at all.

 

This is so sensationalist, and no it's not news. It MIGHT be news - you know - if anyone can back up these claims with fact. But that time hasn't happened yet. This could have been a worthy news post if you had instead said that they should then backup their claims with fact - rather then just arbitrarily deciding that Apple is "guilty". Why is the concept of proof of burden that difficult?

I refer you to the title now of this thread.  Do you see the word "possibly" in it?  Moving on .....

[mr moose]

ITT: People who do not like acknowledging how much moore's law can suck. 

 

Newer, faster hardware comes out. OSes and developers are going to leverage the new power. Consider just how incredibly hard it can be to continue backwards compatibility over more than four or five iterations! Also, as pointed out so nicely here, Mobile phones deal with a lot of crap over the two-ish years most people own them for. Combined with the extra examination of our phones right before a new release when we notice "hey, my phone seems slower than when I first bought it" (a huge No shit, Sherlock right there), and we convince ourselves that we need new phones just fine without Apple wasting time and money on idiotic schemes such as this.

 

To sum up, allow me to quote the gizmodo article posted earlier: "Saying Apple plans the obsolescence of iPhones is like saying Dole plans the obsolescence of bananas."

moores law has little to do with the possible slowing of phones over time.  It also has very little to do with how well software works on any one piece of hardware.

 

Moores law is purely about transistor density.

[dalekphalm]

I refer you to the title now of this thread.  Do you see the word "possibly" in it?  Moving on .....

 

And I refer you to this post:

 

It is an OS on a gosh darn phone.  I don't think they change that much in that devices should be so sluggish from year to year.  Guaranteed they are gimping devices.

 

As I said, you never once asked for proof. In the original article you barely posted your thoughts and definitely didn't say anything like "Hey this is concerning and a rather bold claim, maybe someone should verify this?"

[Sauron]

No offence, but it has been pretty obvious for a while...

[dalekphalm]

No offence, but it has been pretty obvious for a while...

Perhaps? Perhaps not. I don't have an iPhone, so I can't say.

 

Also, what "seems" obvious to you isn't necessarily so to others. The most logical conclusion for someone objectively looking at it from the outside is that the newer OS updates introduce new features that simply take more power than the older device was meant to handle.

 

Since that's the logical conclusion, a claim that it was intentionally "gimped", while very serious, should be tested and verified before vilifying Apple. Look, I hate Apple as a company. I think they have plenty of bad business practices and I personally don't care for iOS, OSX, or basically any Apple hardware. But that doesn't mean I should suddenly throw out logic and reason. I don't let my dislike for Apple cloud my mind.

[Thorium19]

Admittedly, I just read an article in the Sunday times about this, and they summed it up by saying that it sorts itself out after a few days as the update that comes out with new iPhones generally has a "wearing in time" on older devices where they are slowed down but speed back again. Not sure on the reliability of it, but the bit about android sums it up by saying as new android devices come out all the time, not at the same time as a major OS update, it does not garner many increases in searches over phone speed due to the device release timing and the way the companies can make changes to the android software.

I can't speak for the reliability of this article, I only skim read it and summed it up briefly, but it appears to call this claim about iPhones and idevices slowing down as a temporary issue.

[mr moose]

Admittedly, I just read an article in the Sunday times about this, and they summed it up by saying that it sorts itself out after a few days as the update that comes out with new iPhones generally has a "wearing in time" on older devices where they are slowed down but speed back again. Not sure on the reliability of it, but the bit about android sums it up by saying as new android devices come out all the time, not at the same time as a major OS update, it does not garner many increases in searches over phone speed due to the device release timing and the way the companies can make changes to the android software.

I can't speak for the reliability of this article, I only skim read it and summed it up briefly, but it appears to call this claim about iPhones and idevices slowing down as a temporary issue.

 

I don't know that there is such as thing as temporary software issues, it is straight logic and problem will repeat until the cause is resolved. 

 

But here's something to consider:

 

"if" there is any validity to the uptick in google searches for why an iphone is slow right after a major new iphone release and none for android it then can it be interpreted as a psychological effect?  This reasoning correlates with studies into the personality types of iphone users also,  Android users are typically more aware of the tech they are using and are critical thinkers, where as iphone owners tend not to think about what they need a just buy what works.  Ergo when something else works better they are less likely to think critically and just assume that their device is slower.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhixon/2013/11/13/android-the-os-for-serious-people/

[Sauron]

Perhaps? Perhaps not. I don't have an iPhone, so I can't say.

 

Also, what "seems" obvious to you isn't necessarily so to others. The most logical conclusion for someone objectively looking at it from the outside is that the newer OS updates introduce new features that simply take more power than the older device was meant to handle.

 

Since that's the logical conclusion, a claim that it was intentionally "gimped", while very serious, should be tested and verified before vilifying Apple. Look, I hate Apple as a company. I think they have plenty of bad business practices and I personally don't care for iOS, OSX, or basically any Apple hardware. But that doesn't mean I should suddenly throw out logic and reason. I don't let my dislike for Apple cloud my mind.

 

Apple has always produced one version of their phone at a time, with the only exception of the 5c, which hardwarewise is a 5 so it doesn't really matter for the following reasonment. This means that, in theory, they can optimize their software perfectly for all their devices, better than any other producer could. It would be as easy as just turning off the heavier features on less cabable hardware when detected if they couldn't manage to optimize everything enough. Now, this leads to the logical conclusion that they either did it on purpose, or they just didn't care and didn't bother optimizing the software as they should have because they won't make any more money out of iphone 4 users. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't bother: it's still a scumbag move. In their position and considering the through the roof price of their devices there is no excuse for updates to not work properly out of the box. They can literally test it on all their devices in a small amount of time, there is no reason not to do it other than not caring or doing it on purpose. As you can see I'm being completely objective here. Maybe I'm wrong, but you'll agree that the doubt is more than justified.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

I refer you to the title now of this thread.  Do you see the word "possibly" in it?  Moving on .....

 

And I will refer you to an article that explains things quite nicely. Granted it is an opinion piece, but it is much better than what evidence you have provided. In other words, nothing at all.

 

http://gizmodo.com/no-apples-not-trying-to-bust-your-phone-1453999009

 

Edit: You added that title term AFTER the start of this debate. Nice try.

[Thorium19]

I don't know that there is such as thing as temporary software issues, it is straight logic and problem will repeat until the cause is resolved. 

 

But here's something to consider:

 

"if" there is any validity to the uptick in google searches for why an iphone is slow right after a major new iphone release and none for android it then can it be interpreted as a psychological effect?  This reasoning correlates with studies into the personality types of iphone users also,  Android users are typically more aware of the tech they are using and are critical thinkers, where as iphone owners tend not to think about what they need a just buy what works.  Ergo when something else works better they are less likely to think critically and just assume that their device is slower.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhixon/2013/11/13/android-the-os-for-serious-people/

From what I make of the whole issue, it's just non techies seeing a new iphone and thinking theirs will be slower, so it acts as a "reverse placebo" effect and makes them feel their phone is clearly worse, when actually it isn't. The only way to test it would be to actually have iPhones and measure the speed of them running specific tasks over the course of a year, with different ones on different levels of updates, to compare the speed of them and see if they do slow down the closer to a new phone release it gets. However the phones would have to not be used for the rest of the time, to avoid anything happening to them.

[Victorious Secret]

I'm sorry, but WHAT? Can you please explain the logic behind this? If they don't comment, that doesn't automatically prove you right. That's complete nonsense! Hypothetically speaking, if Apple was innocent, they probably consider this "study" completely silly and will accordingly ignore it. Why should they comment? There's no facts and there's been no tests. There's literally no actual evidence to support it.

 

This is the point that I have, and that I'm 99% sure that @Victorious Secret also has: The burden of proof is on the accuser. In this case, that would be the original authors of the study, and by extension, the authors of the news articles, and by extension, yes that would also include you @DeViLzzz

 

The funniest part about this thread is that fanboyism has no part in it. Victorious isn't an Apple fanboy. In fact, I'd say he's a critical and independent thinker, because he's not willing to take a meaningless article at it's word.

 

Where are the tests? The benchmarks? The before and after comparisons? Show me proof, and you will change my mind. Show me proof, and I'll be right there beside you, shouting to the heavens about how anti-consumer it is.

 

I'll just sit here and wait.

 

 

 

Thank you. You and I are in complete agreement here. See below for my reply to OP for better clarification, but yes. I want actual proof, not just random articles with reader polls and no substantiated and valid evidence. 

 

If this is validated to be true, I'll go with it. Why? Like you said, critical thinking. I'll pick what is logical and reasonable. Something that has been proven to be a fact, or as close as possible. Its how I work, hell my career depends on that. 

 

I don't pick sides because its hard to pick sides when you don't have unbiased facts from each side and tests to validate one over the other. Once you have that, you can make up your mind however you damn well please. So till such a time that someone proves with numbers that Apple is gimping old devices, I'm happy to sit on the fence and also knock people off it for "claiming" one way or another about what the "facts" are. 

We have no facts right now. We have sensationalist articles, personal anecdotes and little else. Those do not a compelling set of facts make. 

 

 

Your questions you posed in this post don't make any sense.  Use the question mark properly in the future.

In regards to what you said here you say you are not making things personal but it surely seems like you are as you have taken your same attitude to other threads I have started.  You also only took the last portion of my post to comment on because you wanted a fight.  I shouldn't have handed you that to use and when I typed it out I had thought of erasing it but it does not change what I think of you.  You may not be a fan boy but you sure as heck are something else.  Don't tell me what to post.  As for the topic and articles not being valid if Apple thinks it isn't let us see them defend themselves and show it is wrong.  I expect they will keep quiet and their silence will show that I and others are right about our opinions of them.  It would not surprise me if it is true that they are intentionally slowing down older devices.  Heck look at what Ubisoft did to a game to make more money as they intentionally gimped the graphics so the game would look the same on all platforms so they would sell more copies of Watch Dogs on the next gen consoles and were probably bribed to do it.  If you think companies don't do shady things to make money you are living in some sort of world that is not planet Earth.  Get in touch with reality Victorious Secret.

 

Hey chief, look up rhetorical questions. Its still a valid use of the question mark. Don't try and grammar Nazi me when you can't be bothered to use this lovely thing called Google to see the valid uses of a question mark in real life.

You called me a fanboy based off what? Nothing. Just because someone disagrees DOES NOT make them a fanboy. Just because I REFUSE to acknowledge a bullshit "study" with bullshit "facts" as truth, does not make me a fanboy.

 

It makes me a critical thinker. I won't accept anything without SOME valid proof. A bunch of internet polls and opinion pieces mean nothing. Show me a study of a few thousand devices. Show me a study that actually takes say, a iPhone 4S and a 5S and tests their speed in various tasks, while setting the same speed to limit the 5S advantage and do as much as possible to level the playing field. 

 

Show me a study that actually controls the variables to give something valid. Give me a study that narrows it down to "Yes, Apple is gimping devices" and "No, thats just old tech showing its age on new software"

You haven't done that. You have posted garbage. You keep making outlandish and click bait posts just to get attention. Congrats, you got it. 

Are we good here? Have I said enough to show you how flawed your logic and reasoning is? Anything else? Can I dismiss the class? I'll be sure to file this under "R" for REKT. As in, you just got Tyrannosaurus Rekt. You got REKT so bad that dead species are reading this and saying "AWEEE SNAP" 

Thats how bad your posts are. Thats how bad your logic is. Congrats, you've brought me down to your level and sadly, you can't even beat me with your experience. 

Next time you want to bring a gun to a word fight, make sure the other guy doesn't have a cannon aimed at your head waiting for you to get cocky and act like you know everything.

[BallGum]

Not the greatest video, but make of it what you will.

 

[dalekphalm]

Apple has always produced one version of their phone at a time, with the only exception of the 5c, which hardwarewise is a 5 so it doesn't really matter for the following reasonment. This means that, in theory, they can optimize their software perfectly for all their devices, better than any other producer could. It would be as easy as just turning off the heavier features on less cabable hardware when detected if they couldn't manage to optimize everything enough. Now, this leads to the logical conclusion that they either did it on purpose, or they just didn't care and didn't bother optimizing the software as they should have because they won't make any more money out of iphone 4 users. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't bother: it's still a scumbag move. In their position and considering the through the roof price of their devices there is no excuse for updates to not work properly out of the box. They can literally test it on all their devices in a small amount of time, there is no reason not to do it other than not caring or doing it on purpose. As you can see I'm being completely objective here. Maybe I'm wrong, but you'll agree that the doubt is more than justified.

That's all well and good - and I agree that not optimizing for a device they release an update for is also bad - but I've yet to actually see any proof that the claim - which is Older devices being slowed after a new update/phone release - is even true.

 

That's my point. This is my singular, one and only point - PROVE IT! Show me evidence and tests that prove that iPhones are being slowed down - intentionally or not. Anecdotal evidence is insufficient. If a user says "My phone is slow because of *such and such*" reason, they are by no means automatically correct.

 

Hell, @mr moose has a great point about the psychological aspect. Some people may be essentially having the placebo affect. They think their phone is slower because it is "old", and they want the "new" one. Does that mean this is the explanation? Nope. But it has just as much "proof" as saying Apple gimps older devices.

 

Please everyone, use your logical and critical thinking to look at this. Please stop being fanboys or anti-fanboys (bandwagon haters). FYI I'm not specifically calling you a fanboy or hater @Sauron (Though I'm sure you hate those fucking hobbits don't you) - I'm just putting this statement out there for the benefit of this discussion. There are WAY too many people just blindly accepting what this article claims. We're tech enthusiast's for gods sake! Let's start acting like it and not blindly accept things without evidence to back it up!

[dalekphalm]

And I will refer you to an article that explains things quite nicely. Granted it is an opinion piece, but it is much better than what evidence you have provided. In other words, nothing at all.

 

http://gizmodo.com/no-apples-not-trying-to-bust-your-phone-1453999009

Let me introduce you to a concept called Burden of Proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof

 

Now that article refers to legal matters, but the concept is also applied to scientific research. If you claim something, the burden of proof is on YOU.

 

 

The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges."

 

Also, why do I need to post any evidence? That's absurd. I haven't made any claims. If I claimed that Apple was in fact 100% innocent and that you were lying, then you'd be correct, I should provide evidence to support that. But no, I'm saying that we should ALL (including you) be asking for evidence to prove or disprove this one way or the other. I have no idea if it's true. But I sure as hell aren't going to take your word for it, or the word of a study based 100% on google search popularity.

 

That article is an interesting read, but as you said, it's an opinion piece. It isn't evidence and doesn't prove anything.

 

@BallGum I'm watching your video now, I'll post my thoughts on it in a couple minutes once I've finished it. But you're the first person to post anything even close to resembling evidence. One thing I can note is that his iOS 7 seems to be buggy (and given that it's from October 2013, I imagine it's safe to say they've put out bug fixes since then). That may have affected the results. Which does not excuse Apple from releasing a buggy OS update and then patching it later.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

-snip-

 

-snip-

 

It seems that we are all on common ground here, while you, @DeViLzzz, have only yourself to defend this pointless case.

 

I will say this for the last time; if you bring up a discussion, and you are not able (or willing) to bring any credible sources, or even be professional in discussion, then your words will have next to no meaning. You are simply dragging your feet for the sake of dragging your feet.

 

If you expect Linus or Slick to talk about this matter, then they will. But NOT in a news report; Instead it will be filed under a "Linus rant".

[Sauron]

That's all well and good - and I agree that not optimizing for a device they release an update for is also bad - but I've yet to actually see any proof that the claim - which is Older devices being slowed after a new update/phone release - is even true.

 

That's my point. This is my singular, one and only point - PROVE IT! Show me evidence and tests that prove that iPhones are being slowed down - intentionally or not. Anecdotal evidence is insufficient. If a user says "My phone is slow because of *such and such*" reason, they are by no means automatically correct.

 

Hell, @mr moose has a great point about the psychological aspect. Some people may be essentially having the placebo affect. They think their phone is slower because it is "old", and they want the "new" one. Does that mean this is the explanation? Nope. But it has just as much "proof" as saying Apple gimps older devices.

 

Please everyone, use your logical and critical thinking to look at this. Please stop being fanboys or anti-fanboys (bandwagon haters). FYI I'm not specifically calling you a fanboy or hater @Sauron (Though I'm sure you hate those fucking hobbits don't you) - I'm just putting this statement out there for the benefit of this discussion. There are WAY too many people just blindly accepting what this article claims. We're tech enthusiast's for gods sake! Let's start acting like it and not blindly accept things without evidence to back it up!

 

oh fair enough. I just trusted those who told me the phone slowed down after the update, I can't know for sure because i never owned anything from Apple.

[Derangel]

Not the greatest video, but make of it what you will.

 

 

The slowdown with iOS7.0 on the iPhone 4 is pretty well known. However it should be noted that iOS 7 was not an update released with the iPhone 4's successor, the 4s, it was instead released along with the iPhone 5s and 5c phones a full three years newer than the iPhone 4. About six months later Apple released the 7.1 update that fixed, or at least vastly improved, performance on the 3 and a half year old device. The 7.0 version of iOS is worth talking about in the context of this discussion but it flies in the face of the accusations presented and the fix calls into question intent versus human error.

[DeViLzzz]

It seems that we are all on common ground here, while you, @DeViLzzz, have only yourself to defend this pointless case.

 

I will say this for the last time; if you bring up a discussion, and you are not able (or willing) to bring any credible sources, or even be professional in discussion, then your words will have next to no meaning. You are simply dragging your feet for the sake of dragging your feet.

 

If you expect Linus or Slick to talk about this matter, then they will. But NOT in a news report; Instead it will be filed under a "Linus rant".

Don't speak for Linus or Slick.  I don't think they would want you to do that.  Get it? 

[notenoughtv]

Not a surprise at all, my mom's iphone 4 runs like a brick since iOS 7 came out