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AttackOfTheMoons

Point to Point Wireless Bridge

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hello, I have internet access at one building and would like to get internet at another building about 1600 feet away with some trees in the way. From what I have read so far what I want is a point to point wireless bridge, and that Ubiquity is the best producer of wireless access points.

Looking to buy through amazon because if it doesn't workout then I can just return it very easily.

I think that I have to buy two of the devices, two outdoor ethernet cables, and then just connect one device to the router that has internet, then the other device (1600 ft away) to another router that will serve the whole house with internet.
Not looking to spend much more than 200$, but I haven't done a project like this before so if anyone could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated. (What is best to buy/ what do I need to know).

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13 minutes ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

Hello, I have internet access at one building and would like to get internet at another building about 1600 feet away with some trees in the way. From what I have read so far what I want is a point to point wireless bridge, and that Ubiquity is the best producer of wireless access points.


Not looking to spend much more than 200$, but I haven't done a project like this before so if anyone could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated. (What is best to buy/ what do I need to know).

You're looking for something similar to UBNT's UniFi Building-to-Building Bridge solution, mind you, if there are obstructions between your buildings such as trees then you may need one of their stronger airMax solutions. Also, these aren't going to be under $200 for what you're asking for, so better start saving up.
https://store.ui.com/collections/wireless/products/unifi-building-to-building-bridge
https://airmax.ui.com/


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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, kirashi said:

You're looking for something similar to UBNT's UniFi Building-to-Building Bridge solution, mind you, if there are obstructions between your buildings such as trees then you may need one of their stronger airMax solutions. Also, these aren't going to be under $200 for what you're asking for, so better start saving up.
https://store.ui.com/collections/wireless/products/unifi-building-to-building-bridge
https://airmax.ui.com/

What is the difference of the thing you linked vs something like https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-NanoStation-M2-Wireless-Access/dp/B00HXT8K4O/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=ubiquity&qid=1579480581&refinements=p_89%3AUbiquiti+Networks%2Cp_36%3A1253505011&rnid=2888501011&s=pc&sr=1-9


even cheaper is https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-CPE210-300Mbps-dual-polarized-directional/dp/B00P4JKQGK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=22RFLP2U3229B&keywords=tplink+cpe220&qid=1579479005&sprefix=tplink+cpe%2Caps%2C219&sr=8-1

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1 minute ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

No idea, I don't currently work with UBNT products beyond drooling over their Edge Router, UniFi AP's, and CloudKey's at the moment, as I don't have the surplus monies to replace my current networking gear. You may want to contact a distributor in your region, or start performing research / wait for someone more knowledgeable to come along and help answer that for you.


Desktop: KRySTaLoGi-PC Build Log (i7-4790K, RTX2060) Mobile: OnePlus 5T | Bell - Unlimited Calling & Texting + 10GB Data
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Camera: Canon SX280 + Rebel T1i (500D) | Sony HDR-AS50R | Panasonic DMC-TS20D Music: Spotify Premium (CIRCA '08)

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34 minutes ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

Not looking to spend much more than 200$

I don't really see how you're going to achieve that with just $200, unless you go the DIY-route, which is gonna be a lot more work: you'd need to find two used routers that support OpenWRT and which have removable antennas, then find two highly directional WiFi-antennas, a laser-pointer or similar for aligning the antennas towards one-another and then configure a wireless bridge on both routers within OpenWRT -- it's certainly doable and produces good results, but premade solutions definitely are the easier choice.


Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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8 minutes ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

what he linked is a (more or less) connect and go solution for connecting two buildings with "more or less line of sight" together.

 

also, you'll most likely be beyond the 200USD point quicker than you'll imagine. a decent wireless access point is already very close to that.

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1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

I don't really see how you're going to achieve that with just $200, unless you go the DIY-route, which is gonna be a lot more work: you'd need to find two routers that support OpenWRT and which have removable antennas, then find two highly directional WiFi-antennas, a laser-pointer or similar for aligning the antennas towards one-another and then configure a wireless bridge on both routers within OpenWRT -- it's certainly doable and produces good results, but premade solutions definitely are the easier choice.

even the DIY route seems very unlikely to stay within the budget, if not going for refurb/second hand devices.

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10 minutes ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

One thing you should consider is the speed you expect. The 300Mbps APs use an older wireless standard and slower speeds (around 60Mbps in reality). The 5Ghz ubiquiti one can give some good results for you but having some obstacles in the way is worrying.

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Just now, manikyath said:

even the DIY route seems very unlikely to stay within the budget, if not going for refurb/second hand devices.

Well, I did mean used equipment, I just forgot to mention it in my post. I have a DIY wireless-bridge myself at home with used routers and OpenWRT on them and it didn't end up costing me much once I found suitable routers.


Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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1 minute ago, manikyath said:

even the DIY route seems very unlikely to stay within the budget, if not going for refurb/second hand devices.

You can find a lot of second hand Ubiquiti APs for a reasonable price where I live, from ISPs that probably moved to fiber.

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5 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

I don't really see how you're going to achieve that with just $200, unless you go the DIY-route, which is gonna be a lot more work: you'd need to find two routers that support OpenWRT and which have removable antennas, then find two highly directional WiFi-antennas, a laser-pointer or similar for aligning the antennas towards one-another and then configure a wireless bridge on both routers within OpenWRT -- it's certainly doable and produces good results, but premade solutions definitely are the easier choice.

Finding a router/AP that supports OpenWRT is quite easy, the problem I think is having to find a good combination between it and a suitable antenna.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
33 minutes ago, IgorM said:

One thing you should consider is the speed you expect. The 300Mbps APs use an older wireless standard and slower speeds (around 60Mbps in reality). The 5Ghz ubiquiti one can give some good results for you but having some obstacles in the way is worrying.

I live in a very rural area so my options are either something like the 300mbps APs, satellite internet provider or a mobile hotspot provider. The reason 60mbps doesn't really phase me is that satellite  / mobile hotspot is likely to be just as bad (if not worse).
 

 

34 minutes ago, manikyath said:

what he linked is a (more or less) connect and go solution for connecting two buildings with "more or less line of sight" together.

 

also, you'll most likely be beyond the 200USD point quicker than you'll imagine. a decent wireless access point is already very close to that.

So would what I linked not be decent? because it definitely falls under the 200usd range.
The connect and go just means that it is easy to setup. I don't think I would be able to manage something DIY such as what other replies were saying but the cheaper ones that are <100USD per device seem like they aren't too hard to setup.

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26 minutes ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

So would what I linked not be decent?

I think the first link you did was more of an Access point than a site to site wireless link. The TP Link device is acutally the type of devcie you are looking for. It specifically states its for WISP's (Wireless Internet Service Providers), which means it would work for your purpose. But like others have said, it uses an older wireless standard meaning speeds might not be great. 

 

The first link @kirashi provided seems like some kinda of over kill solution. However the second link seems to be more on the AirFiber products and from what I have watched on Youtube and read, these works fairly well. And some of them utiltize 5Ghz rather than 2.4 Ghz. The higher bands provide better speeds. While 5Ghz does have less range and less penitration power  it also have less shit that will interfere with it. Bluetooth, Microwaves, cordless phones and many other wirless devices use 2.4 Ghz because it doesnt require any special licsense to use. While 5Ghz tends to have less devices utilizing it. Also range shouldnt be an issue seeing how many of these Air Fiber products are rated for several KM. 

 

All that being said it comes down to a few factors. 1) How fast is the internet connection your trying to share? 2) What are you realistically looking to achive here in terms of performance?  


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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Would it be very hard to mount the APs higher on a pole to have a direct line of sight between them or the trees would still be in the way?

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

I think the first link you did was more of an Access point than a site to site wireless link. The TP Link device is acutally the type of devcie you are looking for. It specifically states its for WISP's (Wireless Internet Service Providers), which means it would work for your purpose. But like others have said, it uses an older wireless standard meaning speeds might not be great. 

 

The first link @kirashi provided seems like some kinda of over kill solution. However the second link seems to be more on the AirFiber products and from what I have watched on Youtube and read, these works fairly well. And some of them utiltize 5Ghz rather than 2.4 Ghz. The higher bands provide better speeds. While 5Ghz does have less range and less penitration power  it also have less shit that will interfere with it. Bluetooth, Microwaves, cordless phones and many other wirless devices use 2.4 Ghz because it doesnt require any special licsense to use. While 5Ghz tends to have less devices utilizing it. Also range shouldnt be an issue seeing how many of these Air Fiber products are rated for several KM. 

 

All that being said it comes down to a few factors. 1) How fast is the internet connection your trying to share? 2) What are you realistically looking to achive here in terms of performance?  

The person who owns the first building told me he pays for gigabit internet, but when I am connected to his router (with ethernet cord) it maxes out at about 100Mbps.
Ideally I would like to be able to play multiplayer videogames - csgo, overwatch, runescape.

Is gaming realistic, I understand that there will be some latency, but would it make more sense to just go the satellite / mobile hotspot approach?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, IgorM said:

Would it be very hard to mount the APs higher on a pole to have a direct line of sight between them or the trees would still be in the way?

 

That would probably be more expensive, no? Would it be crazy to try and climb a tree next to second building and set up the AP there?

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2 minutes ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

That would probably be more expensive, no? Would it be crazy to try and climb a tree next to second building and set up the AP there?

I don't know how tall are the buildings os the trees, that's why I'm asking. If you have a flat terrain between the buildings and the trees are short a simple pole can do the job, but if the second building is down the hill and there are giant sequoias between them it's quite another situation.

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1 minute ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

satellite

It cancer. It will have 1000ms+ ping. Mobile on the other had will have better ping. Just did a test on my phone. Tmobile offered me about 27ms of Ping, 60 Mbps down and about 2 Up. Which isnt too bad if you ask me. Comcast on the other had offered about 10 ms, which is farily good for cable internet. Fiber internet has much lower pings generally speaking. 

 

The issues with Mobile internet is speeds will vary, and depending on your provider there might be restrictions. Hotspot and Teathering data at least in the US is treated much diffrently than using data on your phone. For example T Mobile only offers a max of like 20 Gigs of Hotspot data before you kicked to 3G speeds. Most providers have simular practices. Satelite internet on the other hand can have daily and monthly usage caps. I mean fuck, Hughs net sent us some marketing material and they said once you cross the threshold you get like 1 to 3 Mbps. Fuck that. 


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, IgorM said:

I don't know how tall are the buildings os the trees, that's why I'm asking. If you have a flat terrain between the buildings and the trees are short a simple pole can do the job, but if the second building is down the hill and there are giant sequoias between them it's quite another situation.

The second building is uphill, I haven't tried climbing the tree, but the one I am thinking of is quite tall so it might have line of sight. Would this actually be a doable task? To power it, I would just need a ethernet cable from the building to the device with a PoE adapter?

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1 minute ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

PoE adapter?

Yeah you would need eaither a POE injector or a POE swtich to provide it power. But power and data will be on one cable. 


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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43 minutes ago, AttackOfTheMoons said:

The second building is uphill, I haven't tried climbing the tree, but the one I am thinking of is quite tall so it might have line of sight.

I was thinking more on two poles, one on each building to get past the height of the trees, but since they are tall you would need a bigger stricture for that making my first idea more nonviable. The idea of mounting it to a tree can be done if you can protect the cable with a pipe and if you have the tools and can do it safely. 

 

45 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Yeah you would need eaither a POE injector or a POE swtich to provide it power. But power and data will be on one cable. 

Using a POE injector would be a better solution for him, since he probably would only use POE for the APs on each end, and a POE switch can be quite expensive. But definitely POE is the way to go. 

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And speaking of POE, make sure to know if the AP you get includes or not an injector, if not you have to find one that's suitable, with the correct standart and voltage.

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9 hours ago, WereCatf said:

I don't really see how you're going to achieve that with just $200, unless you go the DIY-route, which is gonna be a lot more work: you'd need to find two used routers that support OpenWRT and which have removable antennas, then find two highly directional WiFi-antennas, a laser-pointer or similar for aligning the antennas towards one-another and then configure a wireless bridge on both routers within OpenWRT -- it's certainly doable and produces good results, but premade solutions definitely are the easier choice.

I'd have to warn people away from doing it the DIY route.  I spent YEARS trying it this way, and the performance/reliability was just never there.  Even with a Yagi antenna outdoors, one end indoors, I struggled to get a connection across a road because it had to pass through tree branches and a window/wall.  Most importantly, I couldn't get a 5Ghz signal to work at all so it got worse and worse as crosstalk reared its ugly head.

 

I switched to Ubiquiti LiteBeam 5AC 23 units at both end (still one end is indoors through a thick double wall) and now while the speed fluctuates, its very reliable and doesn't generally drop below 50Mbit.  If I was able to mount both ends outdoors, I believe I'd easily get 200Mbit, maybe more.


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense.
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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1 minute ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I'd have to warn people away from doing it the DIY route.  I spent YEARS trying it this way, and the performance/reliability was just never there.  Even with a Yagi antenna (granted only at one end of the link) I struggled to get a connection across a road because it had to pass through tree branches and a window/wall.

If the distance is such that you need a directional antenna, then you need one at both ends. Of course it's going to suck if you only have one 🙄


Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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5 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

If the distance is such that you need a directional antenna, then you need one at both ends. Of course it's going to suck if you only have one 🙄

The distance was very short, a Yagi shouldn't really have been necessary (in fact prior to it, I had run the link with just a router either side, but this got less reliable as crosstalk increased).

As I recall I tried with two and it didn't make a massive difference surprisingly, presumably as the signal was being scattered anyway so it was pure luck that I got any reception.

 

OpenWRT is just not optimised for outdoor use, heck WiFi itself isn't, which is why Ubiquiti use their own protocol.

 

But the default opinion of everyone when you ask is, you can't do WiFi through trees, because there are no guarantees it will work.


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense.
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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