[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[NeptuneIX]

Does anyone know how good this PSU is?
"Seasonic CORE-GC-650" 
I was looking to get the riotoro enigma g2 but theres a chance that its using a seasonic focus plus which have issues and the seasonic has a 7 year warranty as opposed to 5 on the riotoro.
http://www.jiguo.com/article/article/82568.html
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/79814425
Here are teardowns, can anyone give me their opinion?

[LukeSavenije]

14 minutes ago, NeptuneIX said:

"Seasonic CORE-GC-650" 

reviews are unfortunately still yet to come for it

 

14 minutes ago, NeptuneIX said:

I was looking to get the riotoro enigma g2

go ahead, all the current units are the new 2019 version without any (known) problem

[NeptuneIX]

Just now, LukeSavenije said:

reviews are unfortunately still yet to come for it

 

go ahead, all the current units are the new 2019 version without any (known) problem

yeah but the thing is that the seasonic has a 7 year warranty instead of 5 on the riotoro... but ive heard that the core gc has a sleeve bearing fan sadly

[Juular]

8 hours ago, Zvenk said:

Can i squeeze one more option here as well,

https://www.itopya.com/asus-rog-strix-550w-80-gold-full-moduler-135mm-fanli-psu/

https://www.akakce.com/power-supply/en-ucuz-nzxt-e500-np-1pm-e500a-eu-500w-fiyati,376372003.html

 

[Zvenk]

7 hours ago, Juular said:

https://www.itopya.com/asus-rog-strix-550w-80-gold-full-moduler-135mm-fanli-psu/

https://www.akakce.com/power-supply/en-ucuz-nzxt-e500-np-1pm-e500a-eu-500w-fiyati,376372003.html

 

Asus is more expensive then most options i mentioned(almost same price as 2015 rmx750 and nzxt is almost same price with XPG one. I ordered XPG last night, it should be here in any minute, i will try it and if i dont like it, will just send it back.

 

Whats your opinion on FSP Hydro G tho, as semi active one.

[Juular]

8 minutes ago, Zvenk said:

Whats your opinion on FSP Hydro G tho, as semi active one.

It performs a bit weird in reviews but they're old so maybe it were fixed already which is kinda confirmed by good performance of FSP Hydro G Pro which uses very close platform visually.

[NeptuneIX]

16 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

reviews are unfortunately still yet to come for it

 

go ahead, all the current units are the new 2019 version without any (known) problem

i only have one concern; what if riotoro is still rebranding the old seasonic focus plus stock they have instead of using the new FOCUS ones?

[LukeSavenije]

11 minutes ago, NeptuneIX said:

i only have one concern; what if riotoro is still rebranding the old seasonic focus plus stock they have instead of using the new FOCUS ones?

Seasonic doesn't produce those anymore since a while...

[NeptuneIX]

26 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

Seasonic doesn't produce those anymore since a while...

the thing is that the seasonic has a 7 year warranty in the store instead of the 5 year warranty on the riotoro...
I asked a guy I knew that's knowledgable in PSUs to take a look at the teardown pics and he says the only real difference between the core and the focus series is that the core only has 1pcb layer instead of 2(which apparently doesnt make much of a difference, only smaller cost for production)
As for the sleeve bearing fan he says the whole thing about sleeve bearing fans lasting a very short amount of time is a myth.
I'll just copy paste it:

"because a sleeve fan bearing isnt technically as good as a ball or other bearing options but its not bad

for reference i have a CPU cooler from 2009 on a server i have thats been running on and off since 2012 with a sleeve bearing and it has 0 play

its been on 100% for the last 5 years are so

sleeve bearings arent technically as good as a other options, but that doesnt mean they are bad in any way

also johnny isnt saying PSUs with sleeve bearings are bad. thats not it at all. He is saying that units that cost a certain amount might should come with better fans simply because it makes sense

not because its any kind of necessity"
 

"everyone all over the internet using sleeve bearings?

the minimum life should be around 50,000 hours at 50c (obviously longer at lower temps)(edited)

for a 120mm fan with a sleeve bearing

and even then, most of the time they last a lot longer"

[LukeSavenije]

4 minutes ago, NeptuneIX said:

the thing is that the seasonic has a 7 year warranty in the store instead of the 5 year warranty on the riotoro..

that's a choice from Riotoro there, Seasonic only supplies the units in this case

 

4 minutes ago, NeptuneIX said:

I asked a guy I knew that's knowledgable in PSUs to take a look at the teardown pics and he says the only real difference between the core and the focus series is that the core only has 1pcb layer instead of 2

but generally looks cheaper as well. I could easily make an estimate because I've seen those shots as well, but I would prefer real data, which should be coming sooner or later, as I know Seasonic has sent samples of it to reviewers

 

6 minutes ago, NeptuneIX said:

As for the sleeve bearing fan he says the whole thing about sleeve bearing fans lasting a very short amount of time is a myth.

then I'll quote a different side from Aris's PSU 101 to keep in mind

Quote

Lubricant (oil or grease) decreases friction between the bearing's inner surface and the fan's shaft. Once this lubricant evaporates, the fan's life simply ends.

 

[NeptuneIX]

3 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

that's a choice from Riotoro there, Seasonic only supplies the units in this case

 

but generally looks cheaper as well. I could easily make an estimate because I've seen those shots as well, but I would prefer real data, which should be coming sooner or later, as I know Seasonic has sent samples of it to reviewers

 

then I'll quote a different side from Aris's PSU 101 to keep in mind

 

though that quote is simply in theory, if the fans failed in 2-3 years like a lot of people say on this forum there'd be way more reports of PSU fan failures

[Juular]

@NeptunelX

- Riotoro G2 warranty are the same as for OEM version of this PSU, 10 years.

- The claim on Core and Focus being exact aside of PCB layers is bullshit unless proven otherwise, and there were no reviews of it.

- If PSU has sleeve bearing fan then you shouldn't put it in line with high-end PSUs like Focus \ Riotoro G2, you're buying a PSU, not it's warranty, which doesn't cover the fan replacement btw.

- 50k hours rating for sleeves are the maximum you'll ever see, there's a reason why it is this way, they don't live as long as other bearing types. Sure, with some luck and with quality fan you might see it living up to this number but if you want to be sure that you wouldn't need to replace it after 2-3 years - better get smth better right away.

- 'Sleeve' bearings in server fans can be actually be rifle or hydrodynamic ones as they might just not bother with all these marketing terms because sleeve, rifle and hydrodynamic bearings are essentially the same thing with minor differences in construction. Can't support this claim tho, maybe it is sleeve indeed, just very high quality one (as expected in server grade fans).

[NeptuneIX]

5 minutes ago, Juular said:

@NeptunelX

- Riotoro G2 warranty are the same as for OEM version of this PSU, 10 years.

- The claim on Core and Focus being exact aside of PCB layers is bullshit unless proven otherwise, and there were no reviews of it.

- If PSU has sleeve bearing fan then you shouldn't put it in line with high-end PSUs like Focus \ Riotoro G2, you're buying a PSU, not it's warranty, which doesn't cover the fan replacement btw.

- 50k hours rating for sleeves are the maximum you'll ever see, there's a reason why it is this way, they don't live as long as other bearing types. Sure, with some luck and with quality fan you might see it living up to this number but if you want to be sure that you wouldn't need to replace it after 2-3 years - better get smth better right away.

- 'Sleeve' bearings in server fans can be actually be rifle or hydrodynamic ones as they might just not bother with all these marketing terms because sleeve, rifle and hydrodynamic bearings are essentially the same thing with minor differences in construction. Can't support this claim tho, maybe it is sleeve indeed, just very high quality one (as expected in server grade fans).

Its a store warranty, in the store its 5 years for the riotoro while its 7 years on the seasonic.
There are teardown pics and thats how he arrived to the conclusion that the only noteworthy diff is the pcb layers 
http://www.jiguo.com/article/article/82568.html
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/79814425
 

[Juular]

9 minutes ago, NeptuneIX said:

Its a store warranty, in the store its 5 years for the riotoro while its 7 years on the seasonic.
There are teardown pics and thats how he arrived to the conclusion that the only noteworthy diff is the pcb layers

Yeah, i'm aware of these pics. It very well could be indeed just Focus with single-layer PCB but again, without reviews i wouldn't be so sure. And the apparent of lack of review samples handout by Seasonic doesn't help here either.

And back to the fan, i see it's Hong Hua and i recall Jon saying that they don't make simple sleeves anymore, so it might be actually rifle which is in fact just a sleeve with one extra step (rifling on the outer wall of the bearing to aid with containing the grease).

I wouldn't rely on store's warranty anyway, who knows what happens in these 5 years ? Manufacturer warranty are always there.

[NeptuneIX]

2 minutes ago, Juular said:

Yeah, i'm aware of these pics. It very well could be indeed just Focus with single-layer PCB but again, without reviews i wouldn't be so sure. And the apparent of lack of review samples handout by Seasonic doesn't help here either.

And back to the fan, i see it's Hong Hua and i recall Jon saying that they don't make simple sleeves anymore, so it might be actually rifle which is in fact just a sleeve with one extra step (rifling on the outer wall of the bearing to aid with containing the grease).

I wouldn't rely on store's warranty anyway, who knows what happens in these 5 years ? Manufacturer warranty are always there.

its a HA1225M12S-Z specifically
Also i can't do manufacturer warranties because like shipping is a major pain here, honestly ive always used store warrantys and theyve always been good.
But uh can you check out if the fan is a basic sleeve or rifle

[Juular]

1 minute ago, NeptuneIX said:

its a HA1225M12S-Z specifically
Also i can't do manufacturer warranties because like shipping is a major pain here, honestly ive always used store warrantys and theyve always been good.
But uh can you check out if the fan is a basic sleeve or rifle

Judging by 'S' it's a sleeve, no telling if it's actually a rifle or not without teardown.

[NeptuneIX]

17 minutes ago, Juular said:

Judging by 'S' it's a sleeve, no telling if it's actually a rifle or not without teardown.

alright i just wanna make sure, as luke said they stopped producing the focus plus PSUs in 2019 but is there still 0 chance that these new riotoro ones dont just use old focus plus units that seasonic may just had in stock?

[Juular]

Just now, NeptuneIX said:

alright i just wanna make sure, as luke said they stopped producing the focus plus PSUs in 2019 but is there still 0 chance that these new riotoro ones dont just use old focus plus units that seasonic may just had in stock?

Even if you'll get old stock, i recall you planning to use smth like RTX2070S with it ? It's not exactly high-transient GPU, Focus had issues with Vega due to very high transient spikes and specific SKU of GTX1070Ti for unknown reasons, RTX2070S should be fine.

[NeptuneIX]

Just now, Juular said:

Even if you'll get old stock, i recall you planning to use smth like RTX2070S with it ? It's not exactly high-transient GPU, Focus had issues with Vega due to very high transient spikes and specific SKU of GTX1070Ti for unknown reasons, RTX2070S should be fine.

Yeah but since im planning on keeping it for like many many years im definitely gonna upgrade again at some point

[Zvenk]

4 hours ago, Zvenk said:

Asus is more expensive then most options i mentioned(almost same price as 2015 rmx750 and nzxt is almost same price with XPG one. I ordered XPG last night, it should be here in any minute, i will try it and if i dont like it, will just send it back.

 

Whats your opinion on FSP Hydro G tho, as semi active one.

I just installed my XPG and its going back. Fan noise is good, cant even tell its running but it has really bad coil whine which even my cheapo CM didnt had.

[Juular]

2 minutes ago, Zvenk said:

I just installed my XPG and its going back. Fan noise is good, cant even tell its running but it has really bad coil whine which even my cheapo CM didnt had.

You're lucky ... Try to return it.

[MrIronGolem27]

It's been 3000 years since the EVGA GA came out and we still don't have any reviews on it :dead:

[nyichiban]

Was looking for a power supply recently and came across this list. In case anyone wanted to get one as well this seems like a good price for a Tier S PSU: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1009925-REG/antec_hcp1300platinum_hcp_1300_atx12v_eps12v_power_supply.html

 

Only downside is that I can't seem to find a reasonably price custom cables for this. Until I find it I will still use my Seasonic Platinum 1000W PSU I guess. 

[Nlelith]

I reported this recently:

On 3/22/2020 at 10:03 PM, Nlelith said:

Enermax Revolution D. F. 750W I got for my RTX 2080Ti seems to engage some sort of protection when I play demanding games (CoD:MW with RTX on, AC:Odyssey on Ultra). What happens is system simply shuts down for ~5 seconds and then starts again normally, nothing out of the ordinary otherwise. Searched for this problem, and people on various forums suggest to power up GPU with two different cables, instead of one that splits into two 8-pins.

Now I'm using two different cables on different rails to power up GPU, but this random reboot just happened again. I guess this means that GPU power draw isn't to blame here, and I'm not sure what to do next. Reduced my 6700k overclock from 4.6 GHz to 4.4 GHZ, just in case, but I doubt this is due to overclock, I'd get blue screens if that was the case, not just reboots, right? Are there any other "usual suspects" to this kind of behavior?

[MrBrightSyde]

19 hours ago, MrIronGolem27 said:

It's been 3000 years since the EVGA GA came out and we still don't have any reviews on it :dead:

Yeah, I'm tempted to buy one now though. the EVGA GA 650w is $90 on Amazon right now (with a clipped coupon) and I'm not sure if I should buy it or wait for the BitFenix Whisper M to be back in stock