Chunchunmaru_

The real question is: will it break anything?

That's only when using the Windows network manager to set up a VPN connection, right?
 
This shouldn't be affected by users using a browser plugin or other frontends like OpenVPN I suppose

Oh, shit! I've set my Pfsense-router to use DNS-over-TLS, which means it applies to everything and not just Firefox, ergo I must be akin to a mass-murderer!

Didn't Canonical just said that they will wait until 20.04 and finding a solution with Valve and the Wine project in the meantime? 
 
It is 
Since Linux in general rely from Windows software support (which is still actively supporting 32bit) they won't be going anywhere

In my opinion is stupid thinking Linux distributions can dictate over developers and force them about deprecating or not 32 bit, their influence in the desktop is a joke especially for proprietary applications (and also because software development is separate from the distro one) and this will just make things worse and less suitable for normal desktop users, the best thing that can happen here is just a bunch of unusable programs, certainly not expecting developers to spend more time to port their libraries to 64bit, or if they would, that would take a lot of time and certainly waiting for a solution leaving users without the possibility to use their programs isn't a good idea (it's still a distribution responsibility even if you can obviously workaround the thing in other ways like compiling things by yourself, but I'm generally speaking to normal desktop users)

I'd personally prefer Windows to do this first as it would have a bigger influence than linux distributions

I can think of a few reasons
1) Apple is the owner of the major MacOS distribution, the GNU/Darwin flavours (MacOS kernel + GNU desktops like DarwinOS) out there are non-existent anymore, so unlike Canonical they got all the control in their operating system and more support from developers because of that
2) Much more wirespread in desktops so developers actually do care about software support
3) They announced this 1 year ago, unlike canonical which was initially a sudden decision... If things broke on MacOS anyway, on Linux it would have been a lot worse for desktop usability

Didn't Canonical just said that they will wait until 20.04 and finding a solution with Valve and the Wine project in the meantime? 
 
It is 
Since Linux in general rely from Windows software support (which is still actively supporting 32bit) they won't be going anywhere

In my opinion is stupid thinking Linux distributions can dictate over developers and force them about deprecating or not 32 bit, their influence in the desktop is a joke especially for proprietary applications (and also because software development is separate from the distro one) and this will just make things worse and less suitable for normal desktop users, the best thing that can happen here is just a bunch of unusable programs, certainly not expecting developers to spend more time to port their libraries to 64bit, or if they would, that would take a lot of time and certainly waiting for a solution leaving users without the possibility to use their programs isn't a good idea (it's still a distribution responsibility even if you can obviously workaround the thing in other ways like compiling things by yourself, but I'm generally speaking to normal desktop users)

Just to be clear. I do not really care that they removed this. In fact, I think it's good that they are trimming down Windows. I think Windows 10 is massively bloated and shouldn't use anywhere near as much space as it does.
If you want an example look no further than all the shitty programs Microsoft bundles with it. The image viewer app takes up around 350MB. For comparison, IrfanView which is I believe is a far superior takes up around 6MB.
 
The problem I have is that you can't have it both ways. You can't give Microsoft a bunch of excuses for why people just "need to upgrade their hardware" whenever Microsoft releases unoptimized crap, and then turn around and talk about how great it is that Microsoft are saving a couple of hundred megabytes by disabling features.
And come on GoodBytes. Microsoft clearly fucked up here because they did not announce this change from, the task scheduler keeps saying that it succeeded successfully, and it even generates the registry files but they are 0KB in size.
If they wanted to implement this change properly I would suggest listing it in the change log (like all changes should be) and then disable the services rather than neuter the functionality of it. That way the service won't run and think it completely successfully, the 0KB files won't be created, and the task logs will accurately reflect what is happening on the system.
 
 
 
Legacy support is NOT the reason for why Windows is so bloated.
For crying out loud GoodBytes you should know better than this. I am not sure if you are intentionally lying to protect Microsoft or if you genuinely don't know better.
The size of the components necessary to support legacy support going really far back are tiny. They are really, really small in size.
 
Things like system libraries takes up very little space. 
user32_dll for example implements a large part of the user interface components in Windows (for example window management). It also includes components for message passing and input processing. The entire library takes up less than 800KB and contains over 1000 functions. 
kernel.dll is another one of the very large libraries. It has something like 1400 functions in it and takes up 837KB.
 
I mean just think logically for a second here. Old systems did not have an abundance of storage, yet the entire operating systems were able to fit on them quite easily. You could install the entire XP operating system on 1.5GB of storage, and it contained compatibility with software going back quite a long time. Implementing support for all software which could run on Windows XP would therefore take up a maximum of 1.5GB, assuming we actually ship an entire copy of another OS inside Windows 10. However, with optimization, like cutting out everything not needed in XP anymore, we could probably get the size down to half a gig or so. Maybe even less.
So no, backwards compatibility is not the reason why Windows 10 takes up so much space. It doesn't even make any sense to assume that's the reason when you start thinking about it.

MS removes a recovery function to save 140MB.
MS apologists: "Well it saves space so that's good! Barely anyone uses it anyway".
 
MS releases terribly optimized programs and features taking up several gigabytes of data.
MS apologists: "What? You can't afford a few gigabytes of storage? Are you poor or something? Get a job!"
 
 
It's amazing how the same people can defend Microsoft in both instances despite the first basically being MS admitting that even 100MB matters, thus validating the concerns in the second example.

All the stuff in there is fine, they're tools that Kali Linux comes with and is trying to download/update.

No you are wrong, it will not be fun to follow. My fun is better than your fun, the fun I use has superior performance to your fun you use.
 
*find replace 'fun' with 'AMD' and 'Intel' at random*

In other news, water is wet and Intel isn't blind.
 
Looking forward to their eventual desktop CPU response, whether that's 10nm Ice Lake or something else.

https://ubuntu.com/blog/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts

***Other news regarding the switch***,

due to the amount of community criticisms, valve pressure and wine etc... This is going to be all done in 20.04
 
@matrix07012 you can switch the title at this point

https://ubuntu.com/blog/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts

***Other news regarding the switch***,

due to the amount of community criticisms, valve pressure and wine etc... This is going to be all done in 20.04
 
@matrix07012 you can switch the title at this point

Another update, looks like I was predicting future after all? 
 
System76 is going to offer their personal support for i386 libraries, updating them regularly https://github.com/pop-os/
 
Have they parterned with Valve? Who knows, that would be a great choice 

CloudFlare was down for about over an hour
https://www.cloudflarestatus.com/incidents/46z55mdhg0t5
 
"We have identified a possible route leak impacting some Cloudflare IP ranges"  - Jun 24, 11:36 UTC
 
"The network responsible for the route leak has now fixed the issue." - Jun 24, 12:42 UTC
 
Down detector suggests main reports coming from East coast of the US and Europe.
 
This has caused Discord to go down as well , the verge posted an update about this
https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/24/18715308/discord-down-outage-cloudflare-problems-crunchyroll-feedly
even though Cloudflare has posted that updates have been fixed discord remains down  * at the time of posting this update * 
 
"We are working on resolving some internal technical problems now." - Discord, Jun 24, 13:07 UTC
https://status.discordapp.com/
 
I had trouble accessing the forums for a little while, but it wasnt as much as Discord
 
EDIT : Issue marked as fully resolved by Cloudflare
"Traffic levels have returned to normal now that the route leak has been fixed. We are now marking this incident as resolved." -Jun 24, 13:02 UTC
 
EDIT: Discord Identified issues and working on fix
"The issue has been identified and a fix is being implemented." -Jun 24, 13:19 UTC
 
EDIT: Discord Update
"We've identified the issue and people should start reconnecting over time." -Jun 24, 13:37 UTC
 
EDIT: Discord should be back up, they are Monitoring the situation
"Users should all be able to reconnect now."-Jun 24, 14:06 UTC
 
EDIT: DIscord back up and problem fully resolved
"The issue is resolved, thank you for your patience! We will release a public post mortem for this one." Jun 24, 2019 - 14:38 UTC This means discord was down for about an hour and half
 
This is my first news post, sorry if i left out anything, this is all i could find on the topic. If you have anything to Add, please do ! 
Hopefully you werent affected as much by this event

You can now download the new Windows terminal from the play Microsoft store, if you are running Windows 10 version 18362.0 or later, which I believe is Windows 1903.
 
 
Here is a download link: Microsoft store
And here is the announcement:
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-microsoft-store-preview-release/

As someone who's been running various 64-bit OS's since 2005 (starting with XP x64 edition), 32-bit drivers haven't been a concern of mine for some time now, save for the occasional computer I work on that needs them.  Is it really so different on the Linux side?  I didn't think it was possible to run 32-bit drivers in a 64-bit OS.

And also it's important for an OS like Linux to get as much software support as possible
 
Oh so it's just 32bit driver support? Great...

Linux doesn't even load out-of-tree kernel drivers, they have a really strong ABI compatibility and requires to be of the same architecture and kernel version (except DKMS)
So far you can say it's Ubuntu, it's the most supported one by the most majority of programs and you can rely official support on it, it's been happening since now from TeamViewer, Steam and Discord. On other distros is more an "unofficial" community support



Anyway, I need to repeat it again... While it may be look the solution to be simple... 

Not every library can be shipped by program developers, there is still support distributions need to guarantee, the OpenGL or Vulkan implementation from Mesa (open source graphics drivers) does not work with the NVIDIA proprietary driver.

That means if developer ship their own program with static or shared 32bit OpenGL mesa library, is not going to work on computers running the NVIDIA graphics card

Pretty much the reason why ALL of programs out there take the system OpenGL library, which is going to be different depending on the system configuration and "dynamically" loaded



 

And also it's important for an OS like Linux to get as much software support as possible
 
Oh so it's just 32bit driver support? Great...

Linux doesn't even load out-of-tree kernel drivers, they have a really strong ABI compatibility and requires to be of the same architecture and kernel version (except DKMS)
So far you can say it's Ubuntu, it's the most supported one by the most majority of programs and you can rely official support on it, it's been happening since now from TeamViewer, Steam and Discord. On other distros is more an "unofficial" community support



Anyway, I need to repeat it again... While it may be look the solution to be simple... 

Not every library can be shipped by program developers, there is still support distributions need to guarantee, the OpenGL or Vulkan implementation from Mesa (open source graphics drivers) does not work with the NVIDIA proprietary driver.

That means if developer ship their own program with static or shared 32bit OpenGL mesa library, is not going to work on computers running the NVIDIA graphics card

Pretty much the reason why ALL of programs out there take the system OpenGL library, which is going to be different depending on the system configuration and "dynamically" loaded



 

Except they didn't take the floppy drive away from people while they were still using it.  In fact you can still buy them if you need one.
 
https://www.amazon.com.au/Tendak-Portable-External-Diskette-Windows/dp/B01NCV01GY/ref=asc_df_B01NCV01GY/?tag=googleshopdsk-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=341792317172&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5440857803155764938&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9071460&hvtargid=pla-594027534394&psc=1
 
https://www.ebay.com.au/i/302282829756?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=302282829756&targetid=469489705098&device=c&adtype=pla&googleloc=9071460&poi=&campaignid=1793098937&adgroupid=74958853368&rlsatarget=pla-469489705098&abcId=1139226&merchantid=7364522&gclid=CjwKCAjwxrzoBRBBEiwAbtX1nwMjbKZjF1yKsg-tfJgeqhkZNrnbk8vA9fEh8lIEmavziwckBZy2TBoCRl4QAvD_BwE

Not really. There is a big difference between dropping support for an antiquated storage medium that very few things use and dropping support for a very large number of programs and utilities still often used as well as the world’s largest gaming store, and the single most useful program for running windows applications on linux. 

A more useful analogy would be to the loss of the headphone jack. Yes there are newer and better standards out there, but to kill something that works just fine and allows for compatibility with the vast majority of personal audio devices ever made is going to alienate customers.
 
 
That being said, it appears that they will keep the libraries available, just not update them. This solution, while not ideal, is still much better than what initially appeared to be the case.

They just said they won't
 
canonical won't either as they are not even thinking of building for i386 anymore
 
is good for people to going back to windows tbh 
 
 
Maybe that was a worth statement for someone like Microsoft, at this moment Linux desktop distributions must rely on Wine for decent software support and everything done as a lesson to lazy developers is just making them laugh.
 
This is not a discussion whether or not is right to deprecate an old architecture because the answer is simple
On Linux it will just hurt the user base
 
Good luck building a project with wine all static LMAO, how do you expect integrating video, audio and userspace drivers?
 
And if I don't get wrong, wine cannot be build under static by design, 6 years ago I was in their devel about a similar question 
 
 

As I said decent Nvidia Optimus support on laptops... Most laptops out there basically 
 
Bumblebee present on other distros: buggy, no GUI, no Vulkan (so dxvk) support, and not officially supported by Nvidia 
 
That's why it's just harmful to Linux usability in general, there is no point of choosing it for gaming instead of Windows unless you want your life complicated, it wasn't that much before at this point honestly...

Nope, it's not just 32bit support, it's 32bit support on 64bit called Multiarch, WoW64 on Windows
 
Yeah pretty much my thought, but this should be happen only when Windows does this first as Steam Play focuses on Windows gaming and it's pretty common to find 32bit dependencies 
 
Also, 64bit only wine is useless... The amount of windows programs working without 32bit deps is very small, also some winetricks and net 2 requires 32bit as well