AMD: No Such Thing As 'Full Support' For DX12 Today

[HKZeroFive]

Robert Hallock: I think gamers are learning an important lesson: there's no such thing as "full support" for DX12 on the market today.

There have been many attempts to distract people from this truth through campaigns that deliberately conflate feature levels, individual untiered features and the definition of "support."

This has been confusing, and caused so much unnecessary heartache and rumor-mongering.

Here is the unvarnished truth: Every graphics architecture has unique features, and no one architecture has them all. Some of those unique features are more powerful than others.

Yes, we're extremely pleased that people are finally beginning to see the game of chess we've been playing with the interrelationship of GCN, Mantle, DX12, Vulkan and LiquidVR.

What he means is simple: There is no graphics card that fully supports DX12. Some games will favour AMD and some will favour NVIDIA.

Futhermore, he added this when asked about which DX12 'features' were missing from the Fury X:

Robert Hallock: Raster Ordered Views and Conservative Raster. Thankfully, the techniques that these enable (like global illumination) can already be done in other ways at high framerates (see: DiRT Showdown).

Thought this would clear up some of the controversy that was going on in the Oxide developer's response thread. No, this doesn't mean DX12 will boost AMD's performance more than NVIDIA's in all games. Which is a bit sad now I think about it because I thought this was going to be a whole game-changer for AMD. Oh well.

Hallock's Statement: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3j2wpj/x_post_rpcgaming_nvidia_gpus_do_not_support_dx12/cum3xow

Fury X Response: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3j2wpj/x_post_rpcgaming_nvidia_gpus_do_not_support_dx12/cum6vy6

[QueenDemetria]

At this point I just want Vulkan to succeed.

[JebKerman]

I'd say we should just keep on waiting, no point getting too hyped for either party. This is becoming a roller-coaster ride for some.

[Kamina]

Well, someone had to say it.

[Ashaira]

it's sad that this had to be said aloud. everyone should know.

[Icecube26]

well amd said before DX 12 came out that their cards wont support DX 12.1 features.... good thing that they are being honest with their customer...

[JkB_SlH]

What he means is simple: There is no graphics card that fully supports DX12. Some games will favour AMD and some will favour NVIDIA.

 

 

With all do respect , and as of now ..... the quoted statement is WRONG

None of the current available benchmarks is showing anything near "in favor of NVIDIA"

 

some of NVIDIA fanboys are dying for something to show an advantage for NVIDIA on some DX12 benchmarks, once there is such benchmarks, the above statement will become true

 

Dont blame me mate , I'm just trying to be fully objective

[AlwaysFSX]

I thought this was going to be a whole game-changer for AMD. Oh well.

That would be naive..

 

With all do respect , and as of now ..... the quoted statement is WRONG

None of the current available benchmarks is showing anything near "in favor of NVIDIA"

 

some of NVIDIA fanboys are dying for something to show an advantage for NVIDIA on some DX12 benchmarks, once there is such benchmarks, the above statement will become true

 

Dont blame me mate , I'm just trying to be fully objective

You fail to be objective because you fail to understand what was said.

[HKZeroFive]

With all do respect , and as of now ..... the quoted statement is WRONG

None of the current available benchmarks is showing anything near "in favor of NVIDIA"

some of NVIDIA fanboys are dying for something to show an advantage for NVIDIA on some DX12 benchmarks, once there is such benchmarks, the above statement will become true

Dont blame me mate , I'm just trying to be fully objective

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. This statement was made from AMD. They're rivals but he's speaking the honest reality.

We only have one game we have benchmarks for. That doesn't mean it will translate to all games, and I believe that will be shown when more games start to implement DX12, such as Ark over the next weekend.

That would be naive...

Meh, I'm a naive guy. Need to be shown the light every single time

[FakezZ]

Wasn't AMD's DX12 performance better, because the new API allows for Asynchronous Compute, which GCN supports, but not Maxwell and below?

[HKZeroFive]

Wasn't AMD's DX12 performance better, because the new API allows for Asynchronous Compute, which GCN supports, but not Maxwell and below?

For Ashes of Singularity, yes. This feature may not be fully implemented into other games. Don't forget, both AMD and NVIDIA are missing features on their cards. For example, Fury X doesn't have Raster Ordered Views and Conservative Raster.

[bogus]

That would be naive..

 

But it is indeed a game changer for AMD - not just because of DX12 in particular but the Mantle project and console development seem to favor async for the sake of perf gains in the previously mentioned platforms.

[zMeul]

Wasn't AMD's DX12 performance better, because the new API allows for Asynchronous Compute, which GCN supports, but not Maxwell and below?

Maxwell supports async compute, this isn't even the question

the question is how it is implemented, because there are some voices saying async shaders can't work in the rendering pipeline at the same time with regular ones

[Sauron]

With all do respect , and as of now ..... the quoted statement is WRONG

None of the current available benchmarks is showing anything near "in favor of NVIDIA"

 

some of NVIDIA fanboys are dying for something to show an advantage for NVIDIA on some DX12 benchmarks, once there is such benchmarks, the above statement will become true

 

Dont blame me mate , I'm just trying to be fully objective

 

and how many game benchmarks do we currently have? 1.

 

How can we know what will happen in the future and if other games will actually favour nvidia?

[Master Disaster]

With all do respect , and as of now ..... the quoted statement is WRONG

None of the current available benchmarks is showing anything near "in favor of NVIDIA"

 

some of NVIDIA fanboys are dying for something to show an advantage for NVIDIA on some DX12 benchmarks, once there is such benchmarks, the above statement will become true

 

Dont blame me mate , I'm just trying to be fully objective

 

Its amazing how you only pick out the details you want to see and not the whole truth.

 

The current benchmarks certainly don't show AMD beating Nvidia in DX12 performance, what they show is DX12 bridging the gap between AMD & Nvidia so their on par with each other but I've seen nothing to suggest AMD have magically overtaken Nvidia in anything.

 

Its not the consumers fault AMDs DX11 performance was diabolical, now DX12 has evened things out the AMD fans are all screaming about how their cards have come good and how they're finally beating the green team. What you are all forgetting is AMD has had a long time to optimise for DX12 as huge parts of it are designed around code AMD wrote (Mantle) while Nvidia haven't even begun optimising their drivers for DX12 yet. AMD might have caught up to Nvidia at this time but that only proves 2 things, one is just how bad AMDs DX11 drivers actually are and two is even with full optimisation in place AMDs cards are only equalling Nvidias with not much optimisation.

 

I used to love AMD, i really did. I had a 5870, twin 6870s, twin 7970s and twin 280Xs but I got so fed up with being fed old technology with a scribbled out product name and a new one written in pencil next to it, I got fed up with shoddy driver support and I mostly got fed up with games underperforming due to Nvidias 3rd party support program being better than AMDs.

 

Honestly AMD just seem to blame everyone else, its Nvidias fault their drivers don't perform, its Nvidias fault their hardware sucks, its Nvidias fault their CPUs are so far past it that Intel literally doesn't have to innovate in any way and can still outsell them 3:1.

 

AMD are a company in distress, they need to get their shit together fast before they die and are lost forever. AMD buying ATI was deemed a good thing when it happened but IMO it added to much stock to the pot. When they lost their focus and diversified they also lost their edge.

[Icecube26]

Maxwell supports async compute, this isn't even the question

the question is how it is implemented, because there are some voices saying async shaders can't work in the rendering pipeline at the same time with regular ones

when a developer that makes the game for NV cards says it doesnt support  native assync .. it just doesnt...get over it... they tried for a long time...... they failed to get it working on NV side... its architecture problem.. that cant be fixed with updated drivers...

[Prysin]

Well, someone had to say it.

atleast someone had the balls to admitt that the competition will have hardware specific bonuses in some titles....

Nvidia would never admit such a thing before mankind died out (i was going to say hell freezes over... but here in Norway there is a town called Hell... and it freezes over every winter. So hell does freeze over, anually i might add)

[bogus]

Maxwell supports async compute, this isn't even the question

the question is how it is implemented, because there are some voices saying async shaders can't work in the rendering pipeline at the same time with regular ones

 

I just don't get why NVIDIA keeps everything behind this black concrete wall... why wouldn't they disclose such information?

[zMeul]

snip

I seriously doubt there's anything to optimize at this point

look at Oxyde's benchmark .. they claim nVidia had a lot of time with it and yet, DX11 vs DX12 performance difference is rather small

one thing to remember, DX12 is a closer to the metal API than everything before it - what that means is that it allows the API to almost talk directly with the hardware

the problem? right now there isn't a single GPU on the market with full DX12 support

cue Vulkan, so far we don't know the full extent of GPU compatibility but I suspect AMD, Intel and nVidia worked it out so the hardware support is wider - at least I haven't heard of tiered support like DX12 has

[zMeul]

when a developer that makes the game for NV cards says it doesnt support  native assync .. it just doesnt...get over it... they tried for a long time...... they failed to get it working on NV side... its architecture problem.. that cant be fixed with updated drivers...

I never claimed this can be fixed via drivers, what the hell

[Master Disaster]

I seriously doubt there's anything to optimize at this point

look at Oxyde's benchmark .. they claim nVidia had a lot of time with it and yet, DX11 vs DX12 performance difference is rather small

one thing to remember, DX12 is a closer to the metal API than everything before it - what that means is that it allows the API to almost talk directly with the hardware

the problem? right now there isn't a single GPU on the market with full DX12 support

cue Vulkan, so far we don't know the full extent of GPU compatibility but I suspect AMD, Intel and nVidia worked it out so the hardware support is wider - at least I haven't heard of tiered support like DX12 has

 

So I guess the lesson here is everyone is a liar. When AMD & Nvidia both said their current cards would support DX12 they both flat out lied to us. (or at least were frugal with the truth)

[Prysin]

Its amazing how you only pick out the details you want to see and not the whole truth.

 

The current benchmarks certainly don't show AMD beating Nvidia in DX12 performance, what they show is DX12 bridging the gap between AMD & Nvidia so their on par with each other but I've seen nothing to suggest AMD have magically overtaken Nvidia in anything.

 

Its not the consumers fault AMDs DX11 performance was diabolical, now DX12 has evened things out the AMD fans are all screaming about how their cards have come good and how they're finally beating the green team. What you are all forgetting is AMD has had a long time to optimise for DX12 as huge parts of it are designed around code AMD wrote (Mantle) while Nvidia haven't even begun optimising their drivers for DX12 yet. AMD might have caught up to Nvidia at this time but that only proves 2 things, one is just how bad AMDs DX11 drivers actually are and two is even with full optimisation in place AMDs cards are only equalling Nvidias with not much optimisation.

 

I used to love AMD, i really did. I had a 5870, twin 6870s, twin 7970s and twin 280Xs but I got so fed up with being fed old technology with a scribbled out product name and a new one written in pencil next to it, I got fed up with shoddy driver support and I mostly got fed up with games underperforming due to Nvidias 3rd party support program being better than AMDs.

 

Honestly AMD just seem to blame everyone else, its Nvidias fault their drivers don't perform, its Nvidias fault their hardware sucks, its Nvidias fault their CPUs are so far past it that Intel literally doesn't have to innovate in any way and can still outsell them 3:1.

 

AMD are a company in distress, they need to get their shit together fast before they die and are lost forever. AMD buying ATI was deemed a good thing when it happened but IMO it added to much stock to the pot. When they lost their focus and diversified they also lost their edge.

hey lets look at facts shall we?

This scribbled, rebranded old technology is STILL competing wiht Nvidias latest, baddest and most powerful architecture to date..... what does that tell you?

[Icecube26]

So I guess the lesson here is everyone is a liar. When AMD & Nvidia both said their current cards would support DX12 they both flat out lied to us.

no.. amd said that they wont be supporting DX 12.1 featured long before DX 12 came out... because consoles wont use them...

[AlwaysFSX]

So I guess the lesson here is everyone is a liar. When AMD & Nvidia both said their current cards would support DX12 they both flat out lied to us. (or at least were frugal with the truth)

That is not a lie. Both brands support DX12.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Its amazing how you only pick out the details you want to see and not the whole truth.

 

The current benchmarks certainly don't show AMD beating Nvidia in DX12 performance, what they show is DX12 bridging the gap between AMD & Nvidia so their on par with each other but I've seen nothing to suggest AMD have magically overtaken Nvidia in anything.

 

Um, yeah, in price to performance. Perhaps it is you who only pick the details you want to see and not the whole truth.