Interesting Water Cooling Article

[ddbtkd456]

How accurate do you think this is?

 

http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2013/03/11/The-Hidden-Pitfalls-of-Liquid-Cooling-188/

[Jodomcfrodo]

Did he really say that it would be louder and less stable? He seems to not like watercooling. 4/10 article.

[ddbtkd456]

Did he really say that it would be louder and less stable? He seems to not like watercooling. 4/10 article.

 

Thats kinda what I thought...bias ass article. I actually laughed when I read that it would be louder and less stable.

[Jodomcfrodo]

Thats kinda what I thought...bias ass article.

I agree with some of what he said but he really downplayed the benefits.

Silence

Cooling of course

And aesthetics.

He failed to mention that fittings and radiators don't just break for no reason. They either come broken which you would find out in leak testing or they are messed with and then brake. A radiator isn't going to just start leaking randomly. If you're using non conductive liquid and changing it at least once a year, you should be fine even if it does leak. I can see the heavy and hard to upgrade point. The stability and silence section is as true at Manti Teo's girlfriend.

Very biased article. He hi-lighted the negatives and borderline lied about the positives.

[ddbtkd456]

I agree with some of what he said but he really downplayed the benefits.

Silence

Cooling of course

And aesthetics.

He failed to mention that fittings and radiators don't just break for no reason. They either come broken which you would find out in leak testing or they are messed with and then brake. A radiator isn't going to just start leaking randomly. If you're using non conductive liquid and changing it at least once a year, you should be fine even if it does leak. I can see the heavy and hard to upgrade point. The stability and silence section is as true at Manti Teo's girlfriend.

Very biased article. He hi-lighted the negatives and borderline lied about the positives.

 

Yep yep...just thought it was interesting because it was only written a year ago...a year ago I was using AIO coolers.

[Jodomcfrodo]

Yep yep...just thought it was interesting because it was only written a year ago...a year ago I was using AIO coolers.

2 months ago I was using an AIO.

[ddbtkd456]

2 months ago I was using an AIO.

 

Yea I just want my next system to be completely silent...since my last build the AIO was the loudest part.

[Jodomcfrodo]

Yea I just want my next system to be completely silent...since my last build the AIO was the loudest part.

My ACX cooler screamed in my build. That combined with pump noise drove me crazy.

[ddbtkd456]

eh D5 variant pumps I'm sure can be quiet as long as you have them going.

[gilm0re3]

Like a lot of things in this world, the article isn't completely full of crap, but it sure ain't telling the gospel truth. 

 

1. Water cooling is louder. Not a chance. In some cases it may be, like with AIO loops, but those are only the cheapo versions of watercooling, and the fans are usually pretty bad on them. Chances are if you're running a rig with a custom loop, you got some pretty nice, quiet fans to go with it, and you made sure to optimize where you are placing your fans/rads around the case for the best airflow and temps. Also, pumps can be a bit loud, but if you don't pinch pennies you should never get an unbearably loud pump.

 

2. Repair work is complex. This one can go either way, but for the sake of my argument I am going for bologna. As long as you know what you are doing, and if you set up your own custom loop you probably know whats up, replacement and repair should never be all that hard. You diagnose, you repair/replace, you move on. Sure, in some cases it may be more time consuming and tricky to replace something like a graphics card, where you have to undo the fittings, retain the fluid, take off the block, get a new card, take off the cooler on that, install the block, and put that back in your system. Just like any computer, maintenance is not fun, but it is so worth it.

 

3. Periodic maintenance. Kind of like I mention at the end of no. 2, if you have a pc, no matter what it will require maintenance. And anyway, trying to use filling a res as an example of a difficult part of maintenance is just absurd. Calling BS on this one just for the example he tried to use, and also cause keeping your pc in shape is inevitable for any system, water cooled or not. 

 

4. Weight is a big problem. Unless you are someone who moves often, this is not even close to being a problem. Like Mr. Millard said, and is quite true, if you are moving it can be a big hassle. However, most people aren't moving their giant, heavy pc every other week so the fact that he even tried to bring this one up is almost just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Do I agree with some of his points? Sure. Such as water cooling can add many more unnecessary points of failure to your system. Spot on. However, if you are actually willing to take the time and follow all precautions that come with watercooling, and you don't skimp on parts, your system should be extremely safe, stable, reliable, quiet, cool, and very shmexy looking.

 

If you got this far, sorry for the read, but his bullcrap got me feeling very ranty.

[ddbtkd456]

Like a lot of things in this world, the article isn't completely full of crap, but it sure ain't telling the gospel truth. 

 

1. Water cooling is louder. Not a chance. In some cases it may be, like with AIO loops, but those are only the cheapo versions of watercooling, and the fans are usually pretty bad on them. Chances are if you're running a rig with a custom loop, you got some pretty nice, quiet fans to go with it, and you made sure to optimize where you are placing your fans/rads around the case for the best airflow and temps. Also, pumps can be a bit loud, but if you don't pinch pennies you should never get an unbearably loud pump.

 

2. Repair work is complex. This one can go either way, but for the sake of my argument I am going for bologna. As long as you know what you are doing, and if you set up your own custom loop you probably know whats up, replacement and repair should never be all that hard. You diagnose, you repair/replace, you move on. Sure, in some cases it may be more time consuming and tricky to replace something like a graphics card, where you have to undo the fittings, retain the fluid, take off the block, get a new card, take off the cooler on that, install the block, and put that back in your system. Just like any computer, maintenance is not fun, but it is so worth it.

 

3. Periodic maintenance. Kind of like I mention at the end of no. 2, if you have a pc, no matter what it will require maintenance. And anyway, trying to use filling a res as an example of a difficult part of maintenance is just absurd. Calling BS on this one just for the example he tried to use, and also cause keeping your pc in shape is inevitable for any system, water cooled or not. 

 

4. Weight is a big problem. Unless you are someone who moves often, this is not even close to being a problem. Like Mr. Millard said, and is quite true, if you are moving it can be a big hassle. However, most people aren't moving their giant, heavy pc every other week so the fact that he even tried to bring this one up is almost just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Do I agree with some of his points? Sure. Such as water cooling can add many more unnecessary points of failure to your system. Spot on. However, if you are actually willing to take the time and follow all precautions that come with watercooling, and you don't skimp on parts, your system should be extremely safe, stable, reliable, quiet, cool, and very shmexy looking.

 

If you got this far, sorry for the read, but his bullcrap got me feeling very ranty.

 

Hahaha me too...I just am way too lazy to type it out +1 for doing what I was thinking tho hahaha.

 

[Mooshi]

Tell me, with components being more efficient with performance per watt, real world performance and upright costs, what is the actual advantage of full blown liquid cooling these days? It looks really cool, but it seems hard to justify such a elaborate expensive set up unless you're doing something crazy like tri-sli and 5+ghz overclocking for your CPU. At some point, the cost to return ratio has to be skewed.No?

 

If I didn't constantly move around a lot, this might be appealing to give a custom loop a shot, but my PC doesn't exactly warrant such cooling. realistically, i'd only need a graphics card upgrade.

[ddbtkd456]

Tell me, with components being more efficient with performance per watt, real world performance and upright costs, what is the actual advantage of full blown liquid cooling these days? It looks really cool, but it seems hard to justify such a elaborate expensive set up unless you're doing something crazy like tri-sli and 5+ghz overclocking for your CPU. At some point, the cost to return ratio has to be skewed.No?

 

If I didn't constantly move around a lot, this might be appealing to give a custom loop a shot, but my PC doesn't exactly warrant such cooling. realistically, i'd only need a graphics card upgrade.

 

Hmmm if your looking for cost to performance get a AIO cooler....custom builds in water cooling is like a work of art....right pieces right fittings right tubing, it may look better then a picture..however most custom loop builders don't look at cost vs. return ratio or even cost vs. performance....they look at temperature. That's it...if it drops it 3 degrees but costs 150 bucks, and looks good in my case your damn right I'm buying it, cause that is 3 more degrees I can use to overclock my system even further...so thus begins the race for water cooling custom loops.

[Mooshi]

Hmmm if your looking for cost to performance get a AIO cooler....custom builds in water cooling is like a work of art....right pieces right fittings right tubing, it may look better then a picture..however most custom loop builders don't look at cost vs. return ratio or even cost vs. performance....they look at temperature. That's it...if it drops it 3 degrees but costs 150 bucks, and looks good in my case your damn right I'm buying it, cause that is 3 more degrees I can use to overclock my system even further...so thus begins the race for water cooling custom loops.

 

This is all I needed to know. :3

 

That they are. Those set ups are amazing, even if a tad impractical for some!

[ddbtkd456]

This is all I needed to know. :3

 

That they are. Those set ups are amazing, even if a tad impractical for some!

 

Your most defiantly welcome. Any other water cooling or air cooling questions feel free to pm me. I am very good at cooling systems, however if you go with a AIO get a Kraken x41/x61 with a variable pump. It only is loud when it needs to be (ex. heavy gaming or encoding) but normal web browsing it actually is quiet.

[svance76]

How much do you know about the x41. I bought one on Sunday and installed it. I had some wildly different numbers in the temp readouts from the CAM software and the MSI Command Center that came with my MOBO (around a 25c difference). The CAM software says the core is 57c at idle, and the MSI software says the cpu temp is at 29c. All this is at idle. I have not done any gaming or high stress programs yet. if you or anyone has any suggestions, please I'm all ears.  

[ddbtkd456]

How much do you know about the x41. I bought one on Sunday and installed it. I had some wildly different numbers in the temp readouts from the CAM software and the MSI Command Center that came with my MOBO (around a 25c difference). The CAM software says the core is 57c at idle, and the MSI software says the cpu temp is at 29c. All this is at idle. I have not done any gaming or high stress programs yet. if you or anyone has any suggestions, please I'm all ears.  

 

CAM is useful for monitoring a system...not really much of anything else...that being said the logical answer would be to follow what the motherboard is saying since 57 C is really hot...

[svance76]

That's what I was thinking. When I completed this build before I added the X41, I downloaded CAM just to check it out and there was always a major difference even back then. I think I will just use the CAM to play with the LED pump lighting and monitor the MSI Command Center for the temps. NZXT didn't want to hear about the difference in temps when I emailed them. All they wanted to say was reset the pump cause you took our thermal compound off and added your own (which was Artic Silver 5).

[AlwaysFSX]

 

This guy is an idiot. Water is more effective than a usually aluminum heatsink to transfer heat to a radiator which has a higher surface area than a heatsink so you can dissipate heat faster with less moving air.

[ddbtkd456]

 

This guy is an idiot. Water is more effective than a usually aluminum heatsink to transfer heat to a radiator which has a higher surface area than a heatsink so you can dissipate heat faster with less moving air.

 

I got a good kick out of it when I read it thru thats why I posted it.

[AlwaysFSX]

I got a good kick out of it when I read it thru thats why I posted it.

He makes me want to stick my head in this laptop and slam the lid down as hard as I can so I can finally comprehend where exactly he's getting this information from.

[Misanthrope]

Very misguided: The only 2 valid arguments against custom loops are:

 

1) Cost

 

2) Complexity in putting it together

 

If you cover 1) and have enough patience or help to overcome 2) then all other points (performance, noise, etc.) are eliminated.

 

But if you consider 1) and 2) you realistically have 2 much better choices:

 

1) Just put your money towards more powerful parts

 

2) Get an AIO and overclock, overcoming most of the costs and hassle.

[ddbtkd456]

Very misguided: The only 2 valid arguments against custom loops are:

 

1) Cost

 

2) Complexity in putting it together

 

If you cover 1) and have enough patience or help to overcome 2) then all other points (performance, noise, etc.) are eliminated.

 

But if you consider 1) and 2) you realistically have 2 much better choices:

 

1) Just put your money towards more powerful parts

 

2) Get an AIO and overclock, overcoming most of the costs and hassle.

 

Problems with your theory:

 

1. Water coolers that do custom loops...again...are a work of art and are not suppose to be cost effective in any way.

2. It's art, meaning it is a beautiful loop running right thru every hard earned penny that you put into it.

3. Custom water cooling loops cool way way better then a AIO cooler, since they can support multiple gpus, cpus, and radiators.

4. There is no such thing as eliminating all noise...you can get very close with a custom loop but the fans regardless in your casing will create noise.

[Rmillard]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm the author of that article, and I've been working at Puget Systems for about 12 years now.  I thought I'd respond and give you guys some background about that blog post, and specifically the target audience at which it was aimed.

 

Puget Systems is a boutique computer builder.  We assemble systems for people who often don't have the time, patience, or competency to build their own.  We commonly get questions about liquid cooling from customers who are vaguely aware of it's existence, but don't understand very much about how it works, nor the benefits and drawbacks.  This article was very much targeted at these type of customers.  

 

You folks are a very different crowd.  You're all enthusiasts, and undoubtedly a majority of you build your own systems.  With that in mind, examine a statement like this:

 

2. Repair work is complex. This one can go either way, but for the sake of my argument I am going for bologna. As long as you know what you are doing, and if you set up your own custom loop you probably know whats up, replacement and repair should never be all that hard. You diagnose, you repair/replace, you move on. Sure, in some cases it may be more time consuming and tricky to replace something like a graphics card, where you have to undo the fittings, retain the fluid, take off the block, get a new card, take off the cooler on that, install the block, and put that back in your system. Just like any computer, maintenance is not fun, but it is so worth it.

 

3. Periodic maintenance. Kind of like I mention at the end of no. 2, if you have a pc, no matter what it will require maintenance. And anyway, trying to use filling a res as an example of a difficult part of maintenance is just absurd. Calling BS on this one just for the example he tried to use, and also cause keeping your pc in shape is inevitable for any system, water cooled or not. 

 

If you're viewing this from a viewpoint of a hardware enthusiast, I absolutely agree.  But imagine doing these things from the viewpoint of a consumer who has no background in computer hardware.  What's your reaction going to be when a support tech asks you to get out the hose clamps and torx wrenches.  That customer probably doesn't even have a set of torx wrenches.  Suddenly, this is a very scary, very complicated procedure for that person.

 

I don't think you can make an argument that periodically blowing out a computer with some canned air is really comparable to changing liquid cooling fluid.  They might both be fairly straightforward to someone who knows what they're doing, but one is clearly a more complex process than the other.

 

 

Thats kinda what I thought...bias ass article. I actually laughed when I read that it would be louder and less stable.

 

 

1. Water cooling is louder. Not a chance. In some cases it may be, like with AIO loops, but those are only the cheapo versions of watercooling, and the fans are usually pretty bad on them. Chances are if you're running a rig with a custom loop, you got some pretty nice, quiet fans to go with it, and you made sure to optimize where you are placing your fans/rads around the case for the best airflow and temps. Also, pumps can be a bit loud, but if you don't pinch pennies you should never get an unbearably loud pump.

 

You might not know this about us, but our company specializes in ultra-quiet computers.  Our Serenity model has been certified to operate at 11 dBA (http://www.silentpcreview.com/Puget_Serenity_Pro), which was the lowest noise level for a consumer PC ever recorded by SPCR.  I feel we have quite a bit of expertise when it comes to quiet computers.  

 

The loudness argument really depends on what hardware you're using.  In the "Cooling Performance" section, I specifically address this:  If you're using a Triple-SLI system or extremely aggressive overclocking, then liquid cooling is the way to go.  But for customers who aren't looking for either of those things, liquid cooling is a bit of a red herring.

 

Again, a lot of people who buy from a system builder don't know that much about liquid cooling.  They'll say something like "I've heard it's quieter", but the configuration they're purchasing is using a single mid-range video card and an Intel Core i5.  With a customer who's not chasing the cutting edge, there's no doubt we can build a quieter system with air cooling than we can with liquid cooling.  

 

I'm as much of a hardware nerd as you guys are.  I think our liquid cooled system - the Deluge XL - is pretty damn sexy, and I'm looking forward to that product line getting a refresh with a *ahem* certain new platform that's coming out in the *ahem* near future.   But I think we can all agree that these sort of systems aren't for a majority of computer shoppers out there.

 

This guy is an idiot. 

 

I can't argue with that

 

Richard A. Millard

Puget Systems

www.pugetsystems.com 

 

[svance76]

At least the guy had the stones to come on linustechtip and stand his ground and explain some.