A WaterCooled Mac Pro?

[Hazy125]

I have come into this late. Let's have a look at the definition of a "workstation PC".

Definition 1 http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/workstation.html

 A type of computer used for engineering applications (CAD/CAM), desktop publishing, software development, and other types of applications that require a moderate amount of computing power and relatively high quality graphicscapabilities.

Definition 2 http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/54864/workstation

 A high-performance, single-user computer typically used for graphics, CAD, software development and scientific applications.

Definition 3 http://www.techterms.com/definition/workstation

 It refers to a computer (and often the surrounding area) that has been configured to perform a certain set of tasks, such as photo editing, audio recording, or video production.

 

So, a workstation is any computer that is used in a professional environment more or less. What does that mean in terms on the specifications required? Nothing. A common theme is adobe applications and other professional applications. The minimum specifications for running Premiere Pro CS6 are more or less a core2duo, 4GB of RAM and OpenGL 2.0. Is that a 4960X? Nope, is it still a workstation? Hell yes.

 

The Intel® article that was linked simply showed that you can use Xeons in a workstation, not that you could only use Xeons in a workstation. As I said previously, a core2duo system that runs Adobe premiere is a workstation.

 

Does that mean that running a core2duo is the most ideal workstation, no. Having a Xeon would of course be a better option. This is why Intel can sometimes market Xeons as workstation CPU's. However, in terms of the market segments that I have to look at, a Xeon is a server CPU. A Xeon would still be exceptional at all the "workstation" tasks which is why people use them as such, but it's a server CPU. Just as the Itanium's are database CPU's. Everything has a specific purpose even though they can do more than what that purpose is because because at the end if the day, all CPU's do the exact same thing.

 

Someone said something about overclocking so I'll talk about that too. Intel doesn't even endorse overclocking on any of their products, even their unlocked ones. They even say all of this on their overclocking warranty. On their Xeon range however, and all server based products, the focus is on 100% uptime. Any overclocking is a danger to this, even if it's a small overclock. Should you overclock a server CPU, not really, but it shouldn't hurt too much. You can overclock other CPU's such as K/X CPU's much easier and safer, so if you're buying a CPU for overclocking, get the consumer grade. AMD is  a lot more relaxed with overclocking, allowing for unlocked multipliers on nearly all chipsets and CPU/APU's. They also appear to have a larger failure rate, go figure. They are just as good. People just OC in less than ideal conditions.

 

I also fail to see how any of this relates to the OP in any way so I'm not entirely sure why it's being discussed...

[Titanicium]

You can add 3 blocks to 2 AIO rads easily. That Asus twin 7970 thing had a single rad and 2 pump/block units on the card.

Got nothing to complain about, just wanted to say that the card you are refering to was the Ares 2

[_wky]

I think it looks pretty awesome with that crappy outer-can taken off.

[qwertywarrior]

im thinking of a hybrid water block

[SirReallySam]

I think other than an external rad it wouldn't work...

[Advent]

 

I also fail to see how any of this relates to the OP in any way so I'm not entirely sure why it's being discussed...

I'll break down what happened:

 

So basically someone mentioned the value of the "trash can" @ 3k+" and that it would be $1000 more to build a comparable Intel system. We got to talking about OC'ing and i7s in a workstation build and how it will work just fine and wouldn't cost $1000 more ($4,000) for a comparable Intel based build. Then IdeaStormer comes in with misinformation as to what a Workstation is or isn't and that there are no i7's used in Workstations or classified as workstation CPU's and that you can't OC Xeons and all kinds of other misinformation. To which I replied with what I understand to be the facts and that Intel separates their CPU's into 3 categories, Mobile, Desktop and Server, and that you can use Desktop or Server CPU's in a Workstation, and that you can in fact OC Xeons.

[cjeffcoatjr]

Its a powerful machine, and for once a Mac Pro thats not overpriced. 

[Osmium]

Water cooling this would probably not even do a whole lot. You still are limited to the small chassis and not a lot of rad room. At the end of the day you will still be stuck with that same amount of heat to dissipate and the same amount of space to dissipate it in. They would almost be better off having a big ass radiator with heatpipes running throughout it.

[sperkowsky]

aaaand I did a prank call to apple saying why hey sell electronic trash cans.... :3

I went to the apple store and asked where there trash can is they replied with a serious face we don't have any trash cans in the store

[EpicGeekonFire]

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Pro+Late+2013+Teardown/20778

This link shows you how amazing the engineering is... 

only a 450 watt PSU... OMG no cooling either at full load..

[applebook]

Since this thing will requires tons of external hardware anyway, just use an external radiator box in a CM Stacker.   :blink:

[deathjester]

Anyone that can build a computer and can google "hackintosh" needs their head examined if they buy the lower end Mac Pro.

 

You can build a 87 board Xeon Haswell machine that is better then that Ivy Xeon for a grand. If you really want ECC memory it will take the cost to a whole 1500. 

 

If you render? Get a 4770k which is more expensive then the Xeon, OC it and beat the Mac Pro by 200 in cpu score in Cinebench and 20-30 fps in rendering with a single GTX 770...

 

The lower end mac pro is something to sit on a desk as a status symbol. It runs to hot to render and it's benchmarks are awful and that is if it costs the same as a hackintosh and it costs double. The higher end? Temps will be just as big of an issue and I would wait for Haswell -E. 

 

Why buy a trashcan and then a watercooler to fix it? Doesn't that defeat the whole point of the "elegant design". Try not buying the thing, and maybe Apple will get their head out of their behinds and design a WORKSTATION that can run acceptable temps while you do WORK on it.

 

I would buy an Imac before a Mac Pro. At least then I get a decent IPS monitor included for 2 grand, and the thing is like a whole 8 percent slower? Prob has better render temps as well, which is hilarious, seeing they stuck everything on the back of a monitor. 

[MrSuperb]

 

There are 3 types of processors, Mobile, Desktop (colloquially refereed to as a Workstation) and Server.

 

 

nope the term workstation refers to workstations and not desktops. learn the difference

[Advent]

nope the term workstation refers to workstations and not desktops. learn the difference

A workstation is just a more powerful desktop. It isn't a different architecture. It utilizes the same components and it can use desktop or server processors. It isn't a mobile computer and it isn't a server by default. The only distinction is that it is a desktop that is geared towards a specific set of tasks.

[MrSuperb]

A workstation is just a more powerful desktop. It isn't a different architecture. It utilizes the same components and it can use desktop or server processors. It isn't a mobile computer and it isn't a server by default. The only distinction is that it is a desktop that is geared towards a specific set of tasks.

not it is not, it is not even necessary more powerful in terms of raw power than a normal desktop.

[deathjester]

A workstation is just a more powerful desktop. It isn't a different architecture. It utilizes the same components and it can use desktop or server processors. It isn't a mobile computer and it isn't a server by default. The only distinction is that it is a desktop that is geared towards a specific set of tasks.

 

Lol no. A z87 can take a 4770k or a Haswell Xeon. The Xeon is better for some things but for most the 4770k with a OC kills it. All depends on what you are actually doing with the machine.

 

No way in hell I would use a Xeon and slow ECC ram to render when I can use a 4770k with a OC and slaughter the Xeon. The Xeon on the same thread count (which this 3000 dollar trashcan is) is CHEAPER then the 4770k. It is an underclocked, locked multiplier 4770k with some additional instructions that are only good in a few tasks and rendering and video editing ain't one of them.

 

People just throw this "workstation" crap around to justify the prices. When Haswell-E comes along? LOL at these "workstations" for 3 grand. It is bad enough they get beat pretty badly by a 4770k. 8 cores and 16 threads? My god. The Mac Pro will be laughed at more then it already is at that price point.

 

It would be one thing if the Mac Pro "workstation" could render at good temps, with a unique design. It can't. This makes it a non work station. It is a red ring of death waiting to happen. It is something for yuppies sit on their desk and play farmville with. 

 

The Mac Pro is running the CPU at 20C hotter then it is supposed to. No one runs a 4770k with a stock cooler, because they know those temps are dangerous and that is essentially what a Mac Pro is doing. What makes it even more pathetic is it is a underclocked Xeon Ivy chip (not Haswell) which makes it even funnier.

[Advent]

Lol no. A z87 can take a 4770k or a Haswell Xeon. The Xeon is better for some things but for most the 4770k with a OC kills it. All depends on what you are actually doing with the machine.

 

No way in hell I would use a Xeon and slow ECC ram to render when I can use a 4770k with a OC and slaughter the Xeon. The Xeon on the same thread count (which this 3000 dollar trashcan is) is CHEAPER then the 4770k. It is an underclocked, locked multiplier 4770k with some additional instructions that are only good in a few tasks and rendering and video editing ain't one of them.

 

People just throw this "workstation" crap around to justify the prices. When Haswell-E comes along? LOL at these "workstations" for 3 grand. It is bad enough they get beat pretty badly by a 4770k. 8 cores and 16 threads? My god. The Mac Pro will be laughed at more then it already is at that price point.

 

It would be one thing if the Mac Pro "workstation" could render at good temps, with a unique design. It can't. This makes it a non work station. It is a red ring of death waiting to happen. It is something for yuppies sit on their desk and play farmville with. 

 

The Mac Pro is running the CPU at 20C hotter then it is supposed to. No one runs a 4770k with a stock cooler, because they know those temps are dangerous and that is essentially what a Mac Pro is doing. What makes it even more pathetic is it is a underclocked Xeon Ivy chip (not Haswell) which makes it even funnier.

I'm not even talking about the Mac.

And I know a desktop would not use ECC Ram or a Xeon. Those are the differences between a desktop and a workstation.

 

 

not it is not, it is not even necessary more powerful in terms of raw power than a normal desktop.

 

 

I never said RAW power. It is better at doing certain tasks when compared to your usual desktop.

[deathjester]

I'm not even talking about the Mac.

And I know a desktop would not use ECC Ram or a Xeon. Those are the differences between a desktop and a workstation.

 

Uh you can build a 1500 dollar hackintosh with ECC ram, with a HASWELL Xeon (not a Ivy like the Mac which is older tech). 

 

ECC ram is pointless other then a 24/7 server. It is slower, stupidly expensive and not needed for video editing, rendering etc. 

 

Apple put ECC ram in it to justify the price, because it looks bad when a 900 dollar Hackintosh like mine absolutely kills the Mac Pro in rendering, video editing. Granted I got some good deals near black Friday from Microcenter, but still...

 

I love how Apple had Crucial make a totally unnecessary heatsink for the ECC ram (cus 1866 ram needs a gigantic heatsink LOL) and had it labled "mac pro ram"  and then Crucial marked up the ECC ram to TRIPLE cost. Crucial isn't even one of the top 3 ram makers as far as reliability. That ECC is absolute junk for rendering/video editing. I would rather have Gskill, kingston, corsair non ecc then crucial ECC. 

[Advent]

Uh you can build a 1500 dollar hackintosh with ECC ram, with a HASWELL Xeon (not a Ivy like the Mac which is older tech). 

 

ECC ram is pointless other then a 24/7 server. It is slower, stupidly expensive and not needed for video editing, rendering etc. 

 

Apple put ECC ram in it to justify the price, because it looks bad when a 900 dollar Hackintosh like mine absolutely kills the Mac Pro in rendering, video editing. Granted I got some good deals near black Friday from Microcenter, but still...

 

I love how Apple had Crucial make a totally unnecessary heatsink for the ECC ram (cus 1866 ram needs a gigantic heatsink LOL) and had it labled "mac pro ram"  and then Crucial marked up the ECC ram to TRIPLE cost. Crucial isn't even one of the top 3 ram makers as far as reliability. That ECC is absolute junk for rendering/video editing. I would rather have Gskill, kingston, corsair non ecc then crucial ECC. 

I wouldn't ever put ECC in anything but a server, and even then it would have to be justified.

 

My comments earlier were directed regarding someone mentioning that this topics mac "trash can" cost like 3k+ and that a comparable desktop would cost $1K+ on top of that 3K (which is bullshit, I can build a comparable desktop for $1,500 or less).

Then someone tried to tell me you can't OC on workstations (which you can as the can use Desktop processors (i7) or Xeons (which you can OC via FSB or BCLK). And that Desktop CPU's aren't Workstation CPU's (which they are) and that Workstation has their own class of CPU's (which they don't, Intel has 3 classes, Mobile, Desktop and Server).

 

The comment regarding the differentiation between Desktop and Workstation is that they are they same thing basically. One is geared for a broad scope of tasks (Desktop) whereas a Workstation is geared towards a few specific tasks (Video rendering etc). And that that is really the only difference besides the fact that a lot of workstations use Xeon CPU's and you wouldn't want to put Xeons in a Desktop build. Thus a Workstation is "more powerful" towards a certain subset of tasks vs your average Desktop.

Hope that clears things up