Switching from custom loop, back to air cooler.

[Watashi]

For approximately a year and a half I have been using custom loops. Only soft tubing. I tried to switch to hard-line, and although I know I am entirely capable of completing the project, I found it to be much more work then I expected. (I've decided to shelf the project for another day)I know that the temps are better for water cooling, which provide better overclocking, and if one is lucky, a couple extra frames during gaming (the main use of my machine). I know that often water cooling is boasted to be "ultra quiet" although, I've found it doesn't really change the noise at all, considering using water cooling, I'm likely to only use one or two extra fans. Also, there is a small added inherent risk whenever water cooling. Although I know it is extremely minute, it is still a possibility. I've found that another downside to custom loops is six-month maintenance.

I've decided to switch back to air cooling, feeling as though it is the most practical of the two choices.

 

Opinions?

[Gas_Mask_]

You do you man. Check out the Be Quiet! stuff

[Watashi]

6 minutes ago, Gas_Mask_ said:

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I've only ever used Noctua's stuff. They have this really nice iTX cooler I've been using. Plus, I've been using their NF-12's for years. I think they are a really solid fan.

[combine1237]

I have two closed loop 290xs in my system and the thought of them leaking onto my hard drive below them is making me want to get a vega 64. I have had good luck dealing with phanteks and scythe as far as price to performance goes.

[Watashi]

15 minutes ago, combine1237 said:

-cut-

How did you do the loops on the GPU's more specifically?
Also when you say phanteks and scythe, are you talking about case fans or something else?

[combine1237]

4 hours ago, Watashi said:

How did you do the loops on the GPU's more specifically?
Also when you say phanteks and scythe, are you talking about case fans or something else?

Sorry I modded them with an h55 and h75 from Corsair using the NZxt Kraken 10. Also, I was talking about the dual tower coolers they make. As far as fans go my favorite is the gentle typhoon.

[LogicalDrm]

Umm. What are you asking? Which cooler? Or should you go with air instead of custom loop or AIO? Because the last is quite up to you. I thought that I would like custom loop at some point. But currently next major upgrade will be for smaller case and still with air cooling (probably with my 3rd Noctua).

[Watashi]

20 hours ago, combine1237 said:

Sorry I modded them with an h55 and h75 from Corsair using the NZxt Kraken 10. Also, I was talking about the dual tower coolers they make. As far as fans go my favorite is the gentle typhoon.

That sounds really interesting. Do you have any pictures of that?

 

11 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

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Sorry, I guess I could of been a bit more explicit. I was moreso just asking people's general opinions of Air cooling versus water cooling. And I actually think now that if one is going to do water cooling it is certainly more practical to use AIO's. Albeit each cooling option holds their own pros and cons.

[LogicalDrm]

1 hour ago, Watashi said:

Sorry, I guess I could of been a bit more explicit. I was moreso just asking people's general opinions of Air cooling versus water cooling. And I actually think now that if one is going to do water cooling it is certainly more practical to use AIO's. Albeit each cooling option holds their own pros and cons.

There are pros and cons for both. Though with air coolers cons are lack of performance compared with bigger AIOs and looks with premium coolers (*cough*Noctua*cough*). On the other hand most AIOs have issues with performance vs air cooler of same price range, noise and more points of failure (pump).

 

Which is reason why I only recommend AIOs if case has heavy restrictions on air cooler size, if location of user is very hot/humid or if they are locked onto wanting rgb and other nonsense.

[Watashi]

1 hour ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

There are pros and cons for both. Though with air coolers cons are lack of performance compared with bigger AIOs and looks with premium coolers (*cough*Noctua*cough*). On the other hand most AIOs have issues with performance vs air cooler of same price range, noise and more points of failure (pump).

 

Which is reason why I only recommend AIOs if case has heavy restrictions on air cooler size, if location of user is very hot/humid or if they are locked onto wanting rgb and other nonsense.

I agree with a lot of the points you made. It does seem as though they aren't these super quiet(although I'm not saying they are loud) devices. Even with restrictions on air cooler size, it may be better for performance to have an AIO, although that still runs in too problems of it's own.

 

For example, I switched from a custom-loop too Noctua's NH D9L. My processor was so hot I actually had to under clock it to avoid regular thermal throttling. I've found that although in benchmarks, synthetics, and other technicalities this may seem like a big issue. However, I haven't experienced a noticeable performance decrease, have equally as quiet a system,  and don't worry about the small chance of leaks.

[combine1237]

7 hours ago, Watashi said:

That sounds really interesting. Do you have any pictures of that?

Yeah, when I get in for the night I will show a reference thread I used to do this. This was a pretty common mod when the 290/290x's came out due to the blower.

[combine1237]

https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-water-cooling/1487012-official-nzxt-kraken-g10-owner-s-club.html

 

 

[Firewrath9]

On 7/16/2018 at 8:11 PM, Watashi said:

For approximately a year and a half I have been using custom loops. Only soft tubing. I tried to switch to hard-line, and although I know I am entirely capable of completing the project, I found it to be much more work then I expected. (I've decided to shelf the project for another day)I know that the temps are better for water cooling, which provide better overclocking, and if one is lucky, a couple extra frames during gaming (the main use of my machine). I know that often water cooling is boasted to be "ultra quiet" although, I've found it doesn't really change the noise at all, considering using water cooling, I'm likely to only use one or two extra fans. Also, there is a small added inherent risk whenever water cooling. Although I know it is extremely minute, it is still a possibility. I've found that another downside to custom loops is six-month maintenance.

I've decided to switch back to air cooling, feeling as though it is the most practical of the two choices.

 

Opinions?

the giant noctua d15/or d14 

dark rock pro 4

cooler master maker 8

cooler master v8

all very solid.

[WoodenMarker]

What case, ram and cpu are you using?

What are you looking for in a cooler?

[Watashi]

12 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

the giant noctua d15/or d14 

dark rock pro 4

cooler master maker 8

cooler master v8

all very solid.

 

9 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

What case, ram and cpu are you using?

What are you looking for in a cooler?

Sorry guys, I should have been a bit more explicit within OP. I was moreso curious on what people's general opinions are on Air vs. Water cooling.
I have a fractal Nano case, I ended up going with the Noctua D9L.

[WoodenMarker]

12 hours ago, Watashi said:

Sorry guys, I should have been a bit more explicit within OP. I was moreso curious on what people's general opinions are on Air vs. Water cooling.
I have a fractal Nano case, I ended up going with the Noctua D9L.

Liquid cooling is flexible for cases that don't have space for a large air cooler and can be expanded almost indefinitely for maximum cooling. Air cooling generally provides better performance for the money, often quieter, and is less likely to catastrophically fail like a leaking loop.

 

The NH-D9L is a good cooler for the size but performs worse than every other cooler mentioned in the thread. With a case as large as the Nano S, you're mostly better of with a larger and cheaper cooler.

[Watashi]

15 minutes ago, WoodenMarker said:

Liquid cooling is flexible for cases that don't have space for a large air cooler and can be expanded almost indefinitely for maximum cooling. Air cooling generally provides better performance for the money, often quieter, and is less likely to catastrophically fail like a leaking loop.

 

The NH-D9L is a good cooler for the size but performs worse than every other cooler mentioned in the thread. With a case as large as the Nano S, you're mostly better of with a larger and cheaper cooler.

RAM clearance is a huge issue, keep in mind that I do have an mItx board in there. I've had larger heat sinks before, and I don't really see one fitting in there, even if it does clear the RAM. There isn't much space until it hits the back exhaust fan.

[WoodenMarker]

1 minute ago, Watashi said:

RAM clearance is a huge issue, keep in mind that I do have an mItx board in there. I've had larger heat sinks before, and I don't really see one fitting in there, even if it does clear the RAM. There isn't much space until it hits the back exhaust fan.

What motherboard do you have?

[Watashi]

14 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

What motherboard do you have?

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z370-I-GAMING/

[SolarNova]

A D15 will very slightly quieter than a custom loop using Noctua Fans simply due to have less fans.

 

Personaly i always recommend ether going stock or cheap Air cooling, top of the line air cooling, or full custom loop. I dont recommend AIO's since they tend to use louder fans, cost more than a top fo the line air cooler, and performance is pritty much the same. UNLESS a person is building or using a small form factor PC where a large tower aircooler wont fit.

 

If a person wants to OC heavily, i recommend a custom loop, is a person just wants to dabble in OC'ing i recommend a top end air cooler like the D15.

 

If your going back to air, then thats all good, i see nothing wrong with that at all. I do however recommend you dont get a AIO, but instead get a Noctua D15 if you still want to do some OC'ing.

 

Many people like to point out noctua's color scheme, but tbh any person who's opinion you may want to listen to in regards to your system, is going to know that the D15 is a solid choice. Its like the whole Tuner vs Ricer thing with cars.

[WoodenMarker]

10 hours ago, Watashi said:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z370-I-GAMING/

There's enough space for large coolers like the NH-D15 / S, Mugen 5 Rev. B, or Le Grand Macho RT. Some examples here: https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/by_part/VRjWGX#h=96,416,32,639,582

[Watashi]

21 hours ago, SolarNova said:

A D15 will very slightly quieter than a custom loop using Noctua Fans simply due to have less fans.

 

Personaly i always recommend ether going stock or cheap Air cooling, top of the line air cooling, or full custom loop. I dont recommend AIO's since they tend to use louder fans, cost more than a top fo the line air cooler, and performance is pritty much the same. UNLESS a person is building or using a small form factor PC where a large tower aircooler wont fit.

 

If a person wants to OC heavily, i recommend a custom loop, is a person just wants to dabble in OC'ing i recommend a top end air cooler like the D15.

 

If your going back to air, then thats all good, i see nothing wrong with that at all. I do however recommend you dont get a AIO, but instead get a Noctua D15 if you still want to do some OC'ing.

 

Many people like to point out noctua's color scheme, but tbh any person who's opinion you may want to listen to in regards to your system, is going to know that the D15 is a solid choice. Its like the whole Tuner vs Ricer thing with cars.

I don't plan to overclock. I have overclocked in the past, and although it is an interesting activity to do, it really doesn't impact my performance to a noticeable amount. That was one of the reasons why I was just fine with going with a D9L.

 

12 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

There's enough space for large coolers like the NH-D15 / S, Mugen 5 Rev. B, or Le Grand Macho RT. Some examples here: https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/by_part/VRjWGX#h=96,416,32,639,582

I saw one Nano S, and the individual was forced to take out the top fans. I wonder how that would affect thermals? It may not be much, but that's a valid question.
It is good to know that you can fit one with the motherboard however. Also in a lot of cases it seems incredibly claustrophobic. I'm unsure that with my case I would even be able to fit the side panel back on. Also, as long as I'm not thermal throttling, and I haven't lost noticeable performance, I don't mind under-clocking a chip bit. I feel as though I'm kind of over chasing the best possible temps, just so I can spend hours on overclocking for gains that translate to practical null in reality.

For example: If I spend more money on a better cooler now, I'll be able to throw on a slight overclock, gain no noticeable performance (in games), and possibly have to rearrange all my fans. Just seems like a lot of work and money for not enough of a gain. 

Don't get me wrong, having cooler temperatures is a nice thing to have, but it seems to be more of a technicality, then a practicality

[WoodenMarker]

On 7/21/2018 at 8:33 AM, Watashi said:

I saw one Nano S, and the individual was forced to take out the top fans. I wonder how that would affect thermals? It may not be much, but that's a valid question.
It is good to know that you can fit one with the motherboard however. Also in a lot of cases it seems incredibly claustrophobic. I'm unsure that with my case I would even be able to fit the side panel back on. Also, as long as I'm not thermal throttling, and I haven't lost noticeable performance, I don't mind under-clocking a chip bit. I feel as though I'm kind of over chasing the best possible temps, just so I can spend hours on overclocking for gains that translate to practical null in reality.

For example: If I spend more money on a better cooler now, I'll be able to throw on a slight overclock, gain no noticeable performance (in games), and possibly have to rearrange all my fans. Just seems like a lot of work and money for not enough of a gain. 

Don't get me wrong, having cooler temperatures is a nice thing to have, but it seems to be more of a technicality, then a practicality

For a system and heatsink with front to back airflow, the top fans don't help much if at all.

The side panel fits back on--that's what it means when a cooler fits. 

 

Cooler temps in and of itself doesn't mean much if temps are otherwise fine but it provides more headroom for oc'ing and ability to lower fan speeds. If underclocking and losing performance doesn't matter much, I'm not sure what would matter.

[Watashi]

On 7/25/2018 at 6:14 PM, WoodenMarker said:

For a system and heatsink with front to back airflow, the top fans don't help much if at all.

The side panel fits back on--that's what it means when a cooler fits. 

 

Cooler temps in and of itself doesn't mean much if temps are otherwise fine but it provides more headroom for oc'ing and ability to lower fan speeds. If underclocking and losing performance doesn't matter much, I'm not sure what would matter.

I guess based on the fact that the side panel fits back on, and the top two fans don't have much of an impact on airflow; Then the D15's only downfall (which isn't a big one, and also it's moot) would be that it's a bit uncomfortable to install; that may not even be the case either.

If I had a do-over, I would likely just go with the D15, however, I don't feel like buying one now is really worth it. Like previously mentioned, it doesn't make much sense to me to buy a new cooler, to see small to no noticeable increase in games. Plus I like the aesthetic, and ease of installation on the smaller coolers, so that too is a plus.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

I would like to chime in here and say as for water-cooling, the reason most people who set up custom loops claim that the noise profile is not different from either a high-end air cooler or a 240mm and up CLC lies in how the fans are set up. In my specific case, I base my fan curves on the coolant temperature and not the CPU temperature (like most people). This is based on the fact that the radiator is there to remove the heat from the coolant, and the waterblock over the heat source acts as the medium for the coolant to move the heat from said heat source and to the radiator. So, it makes far more sense to me to set up my fan curves based on coolant temperature. This gives me two advantages: 1) I can set the fans to very low RPMs and still get similar temperatures compared to running them off of the CPU temperature, and 2) the transition between higher RPMs and lower RPMs is very smooth, and linear, so I don't get those sudden spikes in fan RPM transitions.

 

If I was going to build a work computer, then yeah, I would want to air cool the whole thing to make servicing faster, and remove the inherit risk of damaging components from a leaking CLC or a custom loop, even though both solutions (all their components for the latter) are built to tight tolerances.