Which headphone to choose

[Elijah S]

Had a bunch of headset choices and slowly been narrowing it down but cant decide between the sennheiser 598, game one, beyerdynamic 990 pro, audio technica ad900x, or the m40x. I will be using the headphones for gaming so thats why im going open back for a big sound stage, listening to music..predominantly rap/r&b but has ranges(examples being 2006 by skizzy mars, wish you the best by black bear, better now by post malone, gym by mike stud, and sometimes completely different sounding stuff like coffee and cigarettes by vic mensa.) and movies. a lot of music examples but i wanted to cover a decent range of stuff I listen to

[minibois]

I have had the Beyerdynamic DT990, 250 Ohms specifically, for little over a year now and can highly recommend it. Extremely comfortable, very nice sound (I don't use any sort of amp at the moment and it gets plenty loud for me). Keep in mind though the cable on the 250 Ohm version is a sort of 'telephone cable's, making the actual length feel lower than it is.

 

But I haven't tried out these other headphones, so can't judge on their quality. Plus Beyerdynamic headphones are 'Made in Germany', so the price is sometimes significantly higher in regions that are not (Western) Europe.

[EsaT]

ATH-M40x (or M50x) is closed can with that small closed can/bucket sound stage, so discard that straight away.

 

What kind sound you want?

Neutral bass and maximum details, or some more "fun factor" with above neutral bass punch?

Because that stronger bass can and will make simultaneous details like foot steps not as obvious as neutral bass.

(though equalizer could be used for neutralizing bass)

 

Though for balancing between very good fun factor in games and details DT990 is very good.

Sound stage is basically equal to HD595, but instead of being "shy" bass has very good strength.

(without it badly drowning out details like happens in especially cheap closed small sound stage cans)

 

For maximum details neutral bass AKG K701/K702 (latter with detachable cable) are step above in sound stage size.

They're pretty much that god mode cans for gaming and at least in Europe very well priced.

Bass actually goes respectably low for open dynamic headphone, but it simply always takes back seat to details.

ATH-AD700 and 900 could be said to be very similar, but with even less (especially lower) bass.

 

K712 is AKG's vision of more fun bass.

While sound stage is there with 701/702 stronger bass can compromise details to step lower level.

(DT990 little better in "fun factor", but little bit lower in some details)

 

Myself have old retired tape keeping pieces from falling HD595, half dozen years old old DT990 and half year ago gotten AKG K702 (second hand) and K712.

(HD595 can now rot all it wants because K702 beats it)

 

On 5/27/2018 at 9:46 AM, Minibois said:

Keep in mind though the cable on the 250 Ohm version is a sort of 'telephone cable's

That's not feature of 250 ohm version, coiled cable is feature of studio use aimed "Pro" version.

Normal 250ohm Edition/Premium is with straight cable.

 

I can confirm any integrated Realtek driving 250ohm DT990 well into hearing dangerous volumes.

And that impedance actually makes them not so sensitive to interference and basically immune to usual output impedances.

[Novocus]

1 hour ago, EsaT said:

ATH-M40x (or M50x) is closed can with that small closed can/bucket sound stage, so discard that straight away.

 

What kind sound you want?

Neutral bass and maximum details, or some more "fun factor" with above neutral bass punch?

Because that stronger bass can and will make simultaneous details like foot steps not as obvious as neutral bass.

(though equalizer could be used for neutralizing bass)

 

Though for balancing between very good fun factor in games and details DT990 is very good.

Sound stage is basically equal to HD595, but instead of being "shy" bass has very good strength.

(without it badly drowning out details like happens in especially cheap closed small sound stage cans)

 

For maximum details neutral bass AKG K701/K702 (latter with detachable cable) are step above in sound stage size.

They're pretty much that god mode cans for gaming and at least in Europe very well priced.

Bass actually goes respectably low for open dynamic headphone, but it simply always takes back seat to details.

ATH-AD700 and 900 could be said to be very similar, but with even less (especially lower) bass.

 

K712 is AKG's vision of more fun bass.

While sound stage is there with 701/702 stronger bass can compromise details to step lower level.

(DT990 little better in "fun factor", but little bit lower in some details)

 

Myself have old retired tape keeping pieces from falling HD595, half dozen years old old DT990 and half year ago gotten AKG K702 (second hand) and K712.

(HD595 can now rot all it wants because K702 beats it)

 

That's not feature of 250 ohm version, coiled cable is feature of studio use aimed "Pro" version.

Normal 250ohm Edition/Premium is with straight cable.

 

I can confirm any integrated Realtek driving 250ohm DT990 well into hearing dangerous volumes.

And that impedance actually makes them not so sensitive to interference and basically immune to usual output impedances.

I'm quite interested, I want a good pair of headphones suitable for gaming and music but I don't know which one to pick. Why not the M50s? I was looking at those and a lot people speak wonderful about it. 

[EsaT]

1 hour ago, Novocus said:

I'm quite interested, I want a good pair of headphones suitable for gaming and music but I don't know which one to pick. Why not the M50s? I was looking at those and a lot people speak wonderful about it. 

Stereo music forgives simply insanely lot and if you want truly good immersion in games most closed headphones fail badly with binaural sound.

So if isolation of environment's sounds isn't needed closed headphones are bad choise.

That 100% setting isn't optimal, but first minute of this is excellent quick test for binaural sound stage of headphones with gun shots at different directions and distances:

With headphones I mentioned besides 360 directionality there's very good sense of distances.

while typical cheap closed headphones/gaming garbages feeling is like having head in bucket under water:

There's no sense of distance with some sounds just being more muffled than others.

Before having chance to test Turd Beach Z60's didn't even know headphones could be that bad.

 

And those are just "average bad" even in frequency reponse:

https://uk.hardware.info/reviews/6080/16/13-headsets-review-listen-in-higher-quality-turtle-beach-ear-force-z60

(all biggest hype names, Asus, Corsair, Razer, SteelSeries belong to worst category in frequency response)

 

Beyerdynamic DT770 should have good sound stage for reasonably priced closed headphone.

Though those tend to be on heavier bass side and with smaller sound stage that drowns out details lot more heavily than in open DT990.

[Elijah S]

well im looking for headphones that are great for gaming but hand my music tastes well too

[EsaT]

4 hours ago, Elijah S said:

well im looking for headphones that are great for gaming but hand my music tastes well too

Headphones good for binaural sound certainly play any music quite accurately...

Because getting that good sense of direction and distance needs reproducing those binaural cues of signal accurately.

In fact AKG K701/702 are designed mainly for accurate reference monitoring.

 

Again "music enjoyment" cans smoothing treble etc can be clearly worser for binaural sound than lot more cheaper headphones.

[Tech22]

On 5/28/2018 at 11:28 AM, Novocus said:

I'm quite interested, I want a good pair of headphones suitable for gaming and music but I don't know which one to pick. Why not the M50s? I was looking at those and a lot people speak wonderful about it. 

M50x's are really bad for their price. The m50s are a bit better, but there are still much better options for its price tag.

[Max_Settings]

2 hours ago, Tech22 said:

M50x's are really bad for their price. The m50s are a bit better, but there are still much better options for its price tag.

M50s suck too. Also for the OP DT990s are painful, way too much treble. I'm assuming you are looking for an under $200 pair. And are you sure you want wide sound stage? Are you doing competitive gaming or casual?

[Novocus]

9 hours ago, Max_Settings said:

M50s suck too. Also for the OP DT990s are painful, way too much treble. I'm assuming you are looking for an under $200 pair. And are you sure you want wide sound stage? Are you doing competitive gaming or casual?

I just want a overall headphones that can suit good music, good monitoring and good gaming and yeah around under 200$ maybe is impossible to have something like that

[Bjorn24]

12 hours ago, Max_Settings said:

M50s suck too. Also for the OP DT990s are painful, way too much treble. I'm assuming you are looking for an under $200 pair. And are you sure you want wide sound stage? Are you doing competitive gaming or casual?

which headphones around that price are the best for competitive gaming and still sound good for movies and music (most important is gaming and giving good directional awarness)

 

the akg k702 looks good and comfy but are there better headphones for that price?

 

[Max_Settings]

2 hours ago, Novocus said:

I just want a overall headphones that can suit good music, good monitoring and good gaming and yeah around under 200$ maybe is impossible to have something like that

 

8 minutes ago, Bjorn24 said:

which headphones around that price are the best for competitive gaming and still sound good for movies and music (most important is gaming and giving good directional awarness)

 

the akg k702 looks good and comfy but are there better headphones for that price?

 

I would go with the ATH-WS1100iS for gaming.

[Novocus]

1 hour ago, Max_Settings said:

 

I would go with the ATH-WS1100iS for gaming.

Okay.... I checked them out and they look sick, they have bass which I really like.  I think I will go for these ones. Thank youuuu

 

[EsaT]

16 hours ago, Max_Settings said:

Also for the OP DT990s are painful, way too much treble.

For music it certainly can be too much especially for those who've used usual rolled off treble cans. (lots of music might be mixed for such frequency response)

Again in gaming it really doesn't bother much.

Anyway few -dBs of equalizer's 8kHz band does lot to tame it.

[EsaT]

4 hours ago, Bjorn24 said:

which headphones around that price are the best for competitive gaming and still sound good for movies and music (most important is gaming and giving good directional awarness)

 

the akg k702 looks good and comfy but are there better headphones for that price?

For competitive gaming you should forget strong bass boom cans.

Even moderately above neutral bass drops detail distinguishing notch below and any more bass will hurt details badly.

And in closed headphones effect of strong bass is even stronger with other sounds running out of room fast.

So besides sound stage challenges unless needing external noise isolation, closed headphones should be out of picture.

Open headphones have also less additional sweating risk, which is good for comfort.

 

And K702's bass isn't bad, just neutral.

It simply does what's asked by signal instead of trying to constantly kick details to back seat.

And ~130€ pricing is pretty much steal for that sound quality/performance.

K712 costs good amount more for that more punchier bass, while "competitiveness" (sound stage/detail clarity) drops from that 10 of K702 to one trying to reach 9.

DT990 again has little more "fun factor"/bass feel than K712, but little less competitiveness.

[Bjorn24]

On 31-5-2018 at 6:29 PM, EsaT said:

For competitive gaming you should forget strong bass boom cans.

Even moderately above neutral bass drops detail distinguishing notch below and any more bass will hurt details badly.

And in closed headphones effect of strong bass is even stronger with other sounds running out of room fast.

So besides sound stage challenges unless needing external noise isolation, closed headphones should be out of picture.

Open headphones have also less additional sweating risk, which is good for comfort.

 

And K702's bass isn't bad, just neutral.

It simply does what's asked by signal instead of trying to constantly kick details to back seat.

And ~130€ pricing is pretty much steal for that sound quality/performance.

K712 costs good amount more for that more punchier bass, while "competitiveness" (sound stage/detail clarity) drops from that 10 of K702 to one trying to reach 9.

DT990 again has little more "fun factor"/bass feel than K712, but little less competitiveness.

 

On 31-5-2018 at 1:37 PM, Max_Settings said:

 

I would go with the ATH-WS1100iS for gaming.

 

Well I have searched a lot about many headphones and which headphones I can buy local.
And it is hard to choose between akg k712 pro or the beyerdynamic dt990pro 250Ohm...

I can also get the akg k702 but the model with the bumbs on the headband and yes I want the best in game advantage but also a little of base and think that those 2 are better for that and more comfortable? 
From what I understand the k712 pro and dt990pro are both good for gaming but is the k712pro worth it over the dt990pro?
akg k712 pro: 210euro

beyerdynamic dt990pro: 120euro

 

Also for comfort the dt990pro looks so much more comfortable...

Hope you guys can help me!

[EsaT]

2 minutes ago, Bjorn24 said:

I can also get the akg k702 but the model with the bumbs on the headband and yes I want the best in game advantage but also a little of base and think that those 2 are better for that and more comfortable?

AKG has dropped those head torture device bumbs years ago.

Lots of product page photos just haven't been updated.

In last November I bought couple years old second hand K702 which has smooth headband, like in this:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k702.htm

 

And while it's not some day and night difference K702 has clear advantage over K712 or DT990 for details.

Foot steps and all that are more easy to distinguish if there are exlosions/gunfire.

 

[Bjorn24]

4 hours ago, EsaT said:

AKG has dropped those head torture device bumbs years ago.

Lots of product page photos just haven't been updated.

In last November I bought couple years old second hand K702 which has smooth headband, like in this:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k702.htm

 

And while it's not some day and night difference K702 has clear advantage over K712 or DT990 for details.

Foot steps and all that are more easy to distinguish if there are exlosions/gunfire.

 

Oke so normaly if I buy the headphones new it will be without the bumbs? 
But I'm still worried about the headband because every headphone I used (not as good as those of course) but it hurts everytime on the top of my head... I'm worried that the akg will hurt for me after a while  (I can not fit them first).

for me this is what I think after reading everything is this correct?:

- k702 = competitive gaming

- k712 pro = better overall, little less for gaming

- dt990 pro = still good, better comfort

And is the k702 able to get a rich sound in movies and still have enough base? (sorry I'm not an audiophile). 

[EsaT]

I don't have problems with headband of any of these.

AKG's leather headband is flexible, so it should adjust quite well to some "pointy" top of the head shape.

If you have very small especially downward narrowing head, then AKG's "automatic adjustment" might cause some tendency of cups to try to creep downwards.

As for Beyerdynamic DT990's Pro version has little more clamping force in headband than standard Edition/Premium.

But actual headband inside cushion is spring steel, so it wouldn't break if you bend it little.

Coiled cable intended for mixing table use could be another problem if connector is farther.

 

If you're used to some consumer level bass heavy headphone then K702 would certainly feel bass lacking and possibly even K712 and DT990 would sound neutral.

But I myself used bass neutral Sennheiser HD595 for three years (before fancy design started to rot) and before that HD590 for about decade.

Anyway in PC use there's easy way to use equalizer for doing smaller changes.

Actually for music in case of DT990 you woud likely want to lower 8kHz band some dBs if you're used to rolled off/weak treble headphones.

Though K712 isn't really shy in treble either and neither K702 does any smoothing of treble.

http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID[0]=2621&graphID[1]=4163&graphID[2]=2141&graphID[3]=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

Easy to se from that why K702 has advantage in games for picking details.

 

PC is my ultimate media device for everything from gaming to listening music on background, so obviously my headphones get lots of use.

 

Though on music I've got somewhat "limited" taste and opinion that music must have "balls" and/or "thought".

Meaning no any fashion/pop music and instead stuff like Hammerfall, Sabaton, Stratovarius etc, along with some "cello" music. (who needs quitars?)

And lots of soundtrack stuff and I mean actual soundtrack music insteads of fake soundtracks with pop songs.

Meaning Hans Zimmer and his associates, John Williams etc. The Rock being the movie which got me interested on those. So starting from very classical style to some very ethnic/exotic styles. And nothing like good style switch on the fly.

Or Christopher Franke's stuff with symphonic and synthesized music combined.

And also some game sound stracks like Crysis "1"/ Warhead, Crysis 2 and Deus Ex Human Revolution

 

[Bjorn24]

1 hour ago, EsaT said:

I don't have problems with headband of any of these.

AKG's leather headband is flexible, so it should adjust quite well to some "pointy" top of the head shape.

If you have very small especially downward narrowing head, then AKG's "automatic adjustment" might cause some tendency of cups to try to creep downwards.

As for Beyerdynamic DT990's Pro version has little more clamping force in headband than standard Edition/Premium.

But actual headband inside cushion is spring steel, so it wouldn't break if you bend it little.

Coiled cable intended for mixing table use could be another problem if connector is farther.

 

If you're used to some consumer level bass heavy headphone then K702 would certainly feel bass lacking and possibly even K712 and DT990 would sound neutral.

But I myself used bass neutral Sennheiser HD595 for three years (before fancy design started to rot) and before that HD590 for about decade.

Anyway in PC use there's easy way to use equalizer for doing smaller changes.

Actually for music in case of DT990 you woud likely want to lower 8kHz band some dBs if you're used to rolled off/weak treble headphones.

Though K712 isn't really shy in treble either and neither K702 does any smoothing of treble.

http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID[0]=2621&graphID[1]=4163&graphID[2]=2141&graphID[3]=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

Easy to se from that why K702 has advantage in games for picking details.

 

PC is my ultimate media device for everything from gaming to listening music on background, so obviously my headphones get lots of use.

 

Though on music I've got somewhat "limited" taste and opinion that music must have "balls" and/or "thought".

Meaning no any fashion/pop music and instead stuff like Hammerfall, Sabaton, Stratovarius etc, along with some "cello" music. (who needs quitars?)

And lots of soundtrack stuff and I mean actual soundtrack music insteads of fake soundtracks with pop songs.

Meaning Hans Zimmer and his associates, John Williams etc. The Rock being the movie which got me interested on those. So starting from very classical style to some very ethnic/exotic styles. And nothing like good style switch on the fly.

Or Christopher Franke's stuff with symphonic and synthesized music combined.

And also some game sound stracks like Crysis "1"/ Warhead, Crysis 2 and Deus Ex Human Revolution

 

Mmmmm if I see it like that the akg k702 is indeed the best option... maybe followed by the dt990pro if the treble lowered a little bit ( if comfort is not on point with the k702 for me).
I have a narrow face but I'm not worried about the k702 creeping down (I can always use some very small zip ties above the elastic bands to prevent this).

But is it possible to use a custom preset or something for movies to get more bass out of the k702, or is it not possible because the headphone is designed with lower bass?
 

[EsaT]

1 minute ago, Bjorn24 said:

But is it possible to use a custom preset or something for movies to get more bass out of the k702, or is it not possible because the headphone is designed with lower bass?

At least Creative sound cards support having different equalizer profiles. (unlike fashion DACs)

Not sure about Realteks, I've never used integrated sound cards on my desktop PC.

 

Compared to high end graphics card sound cards are simply cheap for their usage life.

And there's no need to worry if integrated has interference or is otherwise lacking, like lack of binaural simulation for headphone gaming.

(no going back to standard stereo after that with good headphones)

[Bjorn24]

2 minutes ago, EsaT said:

At least Creative sound cards support having different equalizer profiles. (unlike fashion DACs)

Not sure about Realteks, I've never used integrated sound cards on my desktop PC.

 

Compared to high end graphics card sound cards are simply cheap for their usage life.

And there's no need to worry if integrated has interference or is otherwise lacking, like lack of binaural simulation for headphone gaming.

(no going back to standard stereo after that with good headphones)

I'm going to pair it with the sound blasterx g5 (not for the surround) but it is the only decent "cheaper" dac/amp combo that is available and got good reviews. 

So I normaly can use a bass heavy profile for movies? 

 

 

[EsaT]

You could use bass emphasizing profile also for casual/fun gaming when not needing to aurally "wallhack" where (multiplayer) enemies are.

Unlike tube distortions and "warm amplifiers" software is flexible.

 

Internal AE-5 has both little better D/A converter and headphone output than G5 if you don't need it to be external.

Or usable as movable headphone amplifier for other source. (G5's line input is at defaults played back on output)

 

[Bjorn24]

On 5-6-2018 at 12:58 AM, EsaT said:

You could use bass emphasizing profile also for casual/fun gaming when not needing to aurally "wallhack" where (multiplayer) enemies are.

Unlike tube distortions and "warm amplifiers" software is flexible.

 

Internal AE-5 has both little better D/A converter and headphone output than G5 if you don't need it to be external.

Or usable as movable headphone amplifier for other source. (G5's line input is at defaults played back on output)

 

well I took the sound blasterx g5 because it is an external dac (I like the scout mode button and also that I can switch profiles just by pressing buttons on my desk, so no need to use hotkeys or going into software)
Only thing I'm concerned about is it gets really hot... is this normal for such an amp/dac?

I now use my astro a40 on the g5 and already love it but want something better! 
I still like the idea of the dt990 pro more (more "fun" based)  so regardless of the k702 is the dt990 pro a good gaming headset that can pinpoint enemies and has a good soundstage and imaging? 
Or will the bass be to much for that? 
Why I think the dt990 pro is better for me... I think it is more fun for movies and music overall, is this true?

One more thing can you give me te inner diameter of the earcups (I have big ears and hurts quickly if they touching the earcups).

[EsaT]

5 hours ago, Bjorn24 said:

well I took the sound blasterx g5 because it is an external dac (I like the scout mode button and also that I can switch profiles just by pressing buttons on my desk, so no need to use hotkeys or going into software)
Only thing I'm concerned about is it gets really hot... is this normal for such an amp/dac?

 

One more thing can you give me te inner diameter of the earcups (I have big ears and hurts quickly if they touching the earcups).

Beyer's pads have ~6-6½cm diameter, depending on measuring "depth".

AKG's pads ~6½cm

One other thing about pads is that Beyerdynamic has those available for very affordable price, making replacing them easy for wallet, while AKG charges more for them.

(and K712 gel pads...)

 

Some warming can be certainly expected, but don't know how much.

Though many headphone amplifiers can certainly warm up quite bit depending on environment and how well casing dissipates heat.

Having something small under ends to rise it from table might help.

 

Unless it's been changed from Sound Blaster Z-serie Scout mode is only some equalizing and maybe dynamic range compression and disables binaural simulation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuwKhRKr_y0

So totally not worth of it with good headphones.

I guess they made it for those head in bucket under water gaming garbages with no sound stage in any case.

Because I can guarantee that after listening to DT990 you would be hating stereo sound's bad immersion.

Standard equalizer for lowering DT990's bass for more competitiveness/details would be better approach, by keeping directionality and sense of distances.

K702 again emphasizes details already enough at "stock" and anything more would be complete bass hating.