It's on!!! (help me get started with building my new rig)

[sluz]

On 15/05/2018 at 3:35 PM, GoldenLag said:

Usually its Ryzen 5 2600/2600x vs core I5 8400/8600K and Ryzen 7 2700/2700x vs 8700K

which of these generally OC better. one thing i forgot to mention is that im planning on buying 144 mhz monitor, and i dont wanna waste money on that if i cant reach 150 fps in games for the next couple of years, without lowering graphics quality too much. so in that regards, since games today are still optimised for a single core, intel probably has an edge. but i know intel K series for OC cost more... anyways, this rig will be built with OC planned from the start.

 

On 17/05/2018 at 9:26 AM, sluz said:

hey guys, here's a quick update

 

while i still havent decided yet (as i have lots of research to do) if im going for intel or amd cpu wise, or even nvidia/ati (this one im almost sure ill go nvidia, but still want to read about radeon a bit), i have started to get a general picture of what i can expect from this build, and rule out things like 1080ti cause its simply too expensive. with that in mind what price ratios per component should i go for? i know it will vary but im interested in approx ranges.

so i was thinking (without checking the prices too much) of going like:

• gpu 500$
• cpu  250$
• ram 200$
• ssd 150$
• mobo 150$
• psu 150$
• rest whatever is left will go into coolers, hdd and then casing, in that order (for all i care i can build components in a shoebox or a drawer...)

this ofc isnt the final price/componet but i dont wanna create bottlenecks so i can allocate more or less money for whatever is needed. also it depends on what is currently available at my local stores, etc.

since no one replied in quite some time now, this question is still active, and your help is much appreciated. 

[GoldenLag]

@sluz if you are going for a overclocked high refresh build id grab a 8600k or an 8700k. Mind you that the mobo plattform most likely wont survive very long. Therefore future CPU upgrade will require a new mobo. You do really want those extra threads from the 8700k for "future proofing". Clocks and IPC is expected to lvl out next gen with Intel 10nm and AMD 7nm. Unless they are delayed which at this point shouldnt be a surprise. If you are planning on grabbing a new CPU within 3 years go with AMD to save on mobo, otherwise grab intel as you will need to grab new CPU, Mobo and RAM combo with the release of DDR5 in 2021

[sluz]

7 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

@sluz if you are going for a overclocked high refresh build id grab a 8600k or an 8700k. Mind you that the mobo plattform most likely wont survive very long. Therefore future CPU upgrade will require a new mobo. You do really want those extra threads from the 8700k for "future proofing". Clocks and IPC is expected to lvl out next gen with Intel 10nm and AMD 7nm. Unless they are delayed which at this point shouldnt be a surprise. If you are planning on grabbing a new CPU within 3 years go with AMD to save on mobo, otherwise grab intel as you will need to grab new CPU, Mobo and RAM combo with the release of DDR5 in 2021

knowing my history i wont be upgrading too quickly after i build this one. and when i do upgrade i guess cpu will be among last things, since i'll OC it and generally cpus last for some time. but then again, i was kinda leaning towards amd cause of last few reads... and the fact that its new socket and quite new technology (not too new to be extremely expensive tho...)

im not in a complete hurry in upgrading this, but i also dont want to drag it out for too long. that said, if i decide to wait for next gen of proc, its a question of when they arrive, and how their cost as they will probably be more expensive at the start. and that could mean wating for years to build this.

 

decisions indecisions...

[GoldenLag]

8 minutes ago, sluz said:

knowing my history i wont be upgrading too quickly after i build this one. and when i do upgrade i guess cpu will be among last things, since i'll OC it and generally cpus last for some time. but then again, i was kinda leaning towards amd cause of last few reads... and the fact that its new socket and quite new technology (not too new to be extremely expensive tho...)

im not in a complete hurry in upgrading this, but i also dont want to drag it out for too long. that said, if i decide to wait for next gen of proc, its a question of when they arrive, and how their cost as they will probably be more expensive at the start. and that could mean wating for years to build this.

 

decisions indecisions...

Nvidia is coming cards this summer. Vega is comming again this autumn (maybe). 7nm Ryzen is next april. And not entirely shure 10 nm Intel due to yields issues

[sluz]

13 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Nvidia is coming cards this summer. Vega is comming again this autumn (maybe). 7nm Ryzen is next april. And not entirely shure 10 nm Intel due to yields issues

yeah perhaps i could go for ryzen now like 2600 OCed and maybe switch it up for a better cpu in couple of years when ddr5 comes, and give my old cpu to my parents for a work pc, which would perform pretty well for them.

btw, i didnt get this part quite, will only amd mobos and cpu be compatible with the release of ddr5 or do i have to switch any mobo/cpu when ddr5 comes (both intel and amd)?

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, sluz said:

yeah perhaps i could go for ryzen now like 2600 OCed and maybe switch it up for a better cpu in couple of years when ddr5 comes, and give my old cpu to my parents for a work pc, which would perform pretty well for them.

btw, i didnt get this part quite, will only amd mobos and cpu be compatible with the release of ddr5 or do i have to switch any mobo/cpu when ddr5 comes (both intel and amd)?

Neither AMD board or Intel Boards will be compatible with DDR5. You will require a new board. This is presumably timed with the end of AM4 after 2020 when the last AM4 cpu comes out

[sluz]

Just now, GoldenLag said:

Neither AMD board or Intel Boards will be compatible with DDR5. You will require a new board. This is presumably timed with the end of AM4 after 2020 when the last AM4 cpu comes out

ah ok, i thought so, but just wanted to be sure. then maybe intel would be a better choice for now, since ill have to upgrade in 3 4 years if i want ddr5. maybe i should go with that in mind when chosing what to get now. 

oh well i was quite excited for ryzen, but i guess i can get amd some other time...

[GoldenLag]

Just now, sluz said:

ah ok, i thought so, but just wanted to be sure. then maybe intel would be a better choice for now, since ill have to upgrade in 3 4 years if i want ddr5. maybe i should go with that in mind when chosing what to get now. 

oh well i was quite excited for ryzen, but i guess i can get amd some other time...

Atm, for your usecase and upgrade cycle; intel will probably be the better choice. I myself went with 1st gen ryzen to allow for an upgrade 3 years from now. We will see who is king 4 years from now. Ive got a bad feeling that AMD is going to struggle once their Zen line of CPUs are done. Post-zen CPUs are gonna relly on the base Zen tech to be any competetive at all (imo)

[sluz]

4 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Atm, for your usecase and upgrade cycle; intel will probably be the better choice. I myself went with 1st gen ryzen to allow for an upgrade 3 years from now. We will see who is king 4 years from now. Ive got a bad feeling that AMD is going to struggle once their Zen line of CPUs are done. Post-zen CPUs are gonna relly on the base Zen tech to be any competetive at all (imo)

while gaming will mostly be my use, i think i edited my OP and said there that i also like to have 30+ tabs opened in chrome and watch stream on my other monitor, and couple of applications opened at all times like discord, some minor games etc while i game. in that case with all that in mind and opened simultaneously would amd perform better? what about 2700 series? if i could stretch my budget for 2700 cpu, would that be a better investment (then id literally have to build it in a shoebox, no $$$ left)...

[GoldenLag]

5 minutes ago, sluz said:

Oh well i was quite excited for ryzen, but i guess i can get amd some other time...

If you want AMD then go for AMD. Like the difference is negligable in games as the CPU often isnt the bottleneck (at higher rez and more GPU straining games at least). And if you want to do a upgrade to Ryzen 4 down the road, then do that (ive got a feeling Ram-prices are gonna be high with DDR5). BUT atm Intel will provide the best fps in most games. I cant prodict the future, but multithreaded is cathcing up. And i strongly believe Hyper-threading or SMT is a must

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, sluz said:

while gaming will mostly be my use, i think i edited my OP and said there that i also like to have 30+ tabs opened in chrome and watch stream on my other monitor, and couple of applications opened at all times like discord, some minor games etc while i game. in that case with all that in mind and opened simultaneously would amd perform better? what about 2700 series? if i could stretch my budget for 2700 cpu, would that be a better investment (then id literally have to build it in a shoebox, no $$$ left)...

If you can you get get a 550 watt seasonic focus gold PSU (its a good psu and you wont need more wattage). 120 GB boot-drive and essential only SSD(and a 1 TB HDD) you could proba ly stretch that. But imo if ylu are upgrading 3-4 years from now you might aswell get a 6c/12t 2600 with a 10$ towercooler to oc to 2600x

[GoldenLag]

Note also that ASUS boards (dont know if it is all of them) support no-cpu-bios-updating. You can grab a decent ASUS B350 board and BIOS update to fit the new CPUs. Should lower costs a bit

[sluz]

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

If you can you get get a 550 watt seasonic focus gold PSU (its a good psu and you wont need more wattage). 120 GB boot-drive and essential only SSD(and a 1 TB HDD) you could proba ly stretch that. But imo if ylu are upgrading 3-4 years from now you might aswell get a 6c/12t 2600 with a 10$ towercooler to oc to 2600x

yeah, if i took 2700 i probably wouldnt have to upgrade that soon. 

about 2600 series, i read somewhere that it isnt worth it to go for x series since you could easily get the same performance with a bit of OC. is it same for the 2700 series?

 

 

[GoldenLag]

Just now, sluz said:

yeah, if i took 2700 i probably wouldnt have to upgrade that soon. 

about 2600 series, i read somewhere that it isnt worth it to go for x series since you could easily get the same performance with a bit of OC. is it same for the 2700 series?

 

 

Yes it is the same with all the non-x series. There is slightly worse silicon and you loose out on precision boost 2. Which is the main selling points of the x series. You can get around that by manually overclocking each core induvidually to the maximum. Generally you can get 4.1-4.2 on all cores. If you overclock induvidually you can probably get one of the cores to 4.3

[cluelessgenius]

well basically it sucks *ss right now. ram and gpu prices are way up. on the other hand cpu's are quite reasonable right now because theres finally some competition. i havent personally tested it but amd seems to do good right now. for your use id stay with 16gb ram that should be fine im running 16gb myself for a similiar use-case and its fine. as for gpus i would have sayed wait for the new nvidia release abouut to happen but i myself just nicked a 1080 ti off of the german versio of craigslist for cheap-ish because of my suspicion that the new 1180 will only match th performance of the 1080 ti anyway and will cost alot more on launch if available at all. miners snatching them up at launch and the Ti version coming out usually way later will probably mean a new 1180 ti thats on stock for a reasonable price will probably be a year or so from now so i at least just went for it now (+ it was like a really good deal)

what else... lets see.. idk make sure to post your build log for us to enjoy? also please dont rainbow glitter the system like it seems to be the trend with all the rgb fans...everything thats out right now

[GoldenLag]

@cluelessgenius actually GPUs are sort of getting close to their MSRP. AMD gpus are still royally screwed. But like Ram is still waaaaayyyyy up there. 

[cluelessgenius]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

@cluelessgenius actually GPUs are sort of getting close to their MSRP. AMD gpus are still royally screwed. But like Ram is still waaaaayyyyy up there. 

ok sure but how is "getting close to msrp" good. those cards are now 2 years old and should be significantly less then msrp by now. 4 years ago i bought my 770 for 250 € about a year after it release. im sure i dont have to tell you what a 1070 costs right now 2 years after its release. youre right its getting "better" but its still not like it used to be before this whole mess started and i fear it never willl be

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

ok sure but how is "getting close to msrp" good. those cards are now 2 years old and should be significantly less then msrp by now. 4 years ago i bought my 770 for 250 € about a year after it release. im sure i dont have to tell you what a 1070 costs right now 2 years after its release. youre right its getting "better" but its still not like it used to be before this whole mess started and i fear it never willl be

Ive got bad feeling woth the increasing price-tiers of GPUs and their reluctance to drop in Price on the used market. Hopefully Navi is gonna bring something reasonable, but i doubt it. Currently the Vega cards are more expencive used than new. 

[cluelessgenius]

Just now, GoldenLag said:

Ive got bad feeling woth the increasing price-tiers of GPUs and their reluctance to drop in Price on the used market. Hopefully Navi is gonna bring something reasonable, but i doubt it. Currently the Vega cards are more expencive used than new. 

yes i also sadly ahve lost all my faith in amd. i used to love those guys back when my HD 5770 still mattered but vega is absolutly useless and the price isnt helping. with every new release ill be praying amd knocks it out the park but im not gonna give myself fake hope. also as far as the used market goes im really interested what happens when the new release from nvidia comes out. is it gonna be a flood of pascal cards on the used market?

also we really need to find a way to stop mining its bad for everyone i just read something about power comsumsions of certain areas going up way to high and there being some dangers involved with that. id really love to see germany ban mining and then SWAT the farms like recently in russia. man itd be impossible to keep me from grining that day

[GoldenLag]

4 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

yes i also sadly ahve lost all my faith in amd. i used to love those guys back when my HD 5770 still mattered but vega is absolutly useless and the price isnt helping. with every new release ill be praying amd knocks it out the park but im not gonna give myself fake hope. also as far as the used market goes im really interested what happens when the new release from nvidia comes out. is it gonna be a flood of pascal cards on the used market?

also we really need to find a way to stop mining its bad for everyone i just read something about power comsumsions of certain areas going up way to high and there being some dangers involved with that. id really love to see germany ban mining and then SWAT the farms like recently in russia. man itd be impossible to keep me from grining that day

I believe wasting energy is illegal in a lot of countries. If you somehow manage to classify mining operations and only mining operations as wasting energy then you are good. Someone might figure out how to attract miners by paying them in crypto or other by doing actual important calvulations like protein folding and similar. Like mining gear has a lot of compute power

[sluz]

6 hours ago, cluelessgenius said:

well basically it sucks *ss right now. ram and gpu prices are way up. on the other hand cpu's are quite reasonable right now because theres finally some competition. i havent personally tested it but amd seems to do good right now. for your use id stay with 16gb ram that should be fine im running 16gb myself for a similiar use-case and its fine. as for gpus i would have sayed wait for the new nvidia release abouut to happen but i myself just nicked a 1080 ti off of the german versio of craigslist for cheap-ish because of my suspicion that the new 1180 will only match th performance of the 1080 ti anyway and will cost alot more on launch if available at all. miners snatching them up at launch and the Ti version coming out usually way later will probably mean a new 1180 ti thats on stock for a reasonable price will probably be a year or so from now so i at least just went for it now (+ it was like a really good deal)

could you recommend a site or store that has eu delivery of pc components? i feel prices are even more jacked up here in croatia, and that i could save some cash if i ordered from germany instead. a friend told me he used to buy from https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/

also what about used parts? im not sure id go with used parts outside of my country or even city, since i cant even test them before purchasing

6 hours ago, cluelessgenius said:

what else... lets see.. idk make sure to post your build log for us to enjoy? also please dont rainbow glitter the system like it seems to be the trend with all the rgb fans...everything thats out right now

haha, nice joke. me and glitter? here's my gpu as it is now (its an msi gpu btw). Notice the screws used for the gigabyte chasis and fan on the right side (wood screws), and a 4 pin soldered cable to 3 pin slot on mobo. glitterish enough?

 

[cluelessgenius]

34 minutes ago, sluz said:

could you recommend a site or store that has eu delivery of pc components? i feel prices are even more jacked up here in croatia, and that i could save some cash if i ordered from germany instead. a friend told me he used to buy from https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/

also what about used parts? im not sure id go with used parts outside of my country or even city, since i cant even test them before purchasing

well idk about croatia i always just check the cheapest price on geizhals.de but they also have a .eu site so maybe chek that out. 

as for used parts i aso usually like to check first but in germany mostly you pay with paypal and they offer buyers protection so if my freshly bought 1080 ti is dead on arrival i can get my money back.

[sluz]

23 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

well idk about croatia i always just check the cheapest price on geizhals.de but they also have a .eu site so maybe chek that out. 

as for used parts i aso usually like to check first but in germany mostly you pay with paypal and they offer buyers protection so if my freshly bought 1080 ti is dead on arrival i can get my money back.

ill check geizhals.de tnx.

and yeah germany is a civilised country, i live in wild west. no paypal or buyers protection...

[sluz]

ok guys, here's a little update. i was away on holidays and out of town, and everything got on a bit of a hold... also i researched a bit more about the topic and i'm here with some new questions and directions.

 

i decided i wanted to try to go for 120-144 hz monitor. also im quite interested if this kind of build with possibly 1070ti would suffice in getting the fps high enough for 1440p or 4k monitors (4k probably no way), so i guess my best bet is a 1440p with 144hz. since all ill do is game and ocassionally use android studio or intellij for coding a bit, and afaik both make most of the use of a single core, like we all stated intel would probably be the better choice for squeezing those 144 fps (i was hyped about ryzen, and the new architecture, but reality is intel will probably do a better job in my case). one thing, atm im interested in playing wow again, and its notorious for not using multiple cores, so i guess theres another reason to go for intel.

also should i get a gsync monitor (they are a quite bit more expensive), but what are your opinions on the extra cash, is it worth it? on the other hand freesync monitors are affordable but will it work with a nvidia card? or if freesync works with amd cards only should i reconsider buying 1070ti?

 

one more question about intel. i know they aim for their sockets to be compatible with 2 gens of cpus, how long are lake cpus gonna be supported for (if it matters at all, with all the talk of switching to ddr5 eventually)? 

 

tnx

 

edit: @GoldenLag, @cluelessgenius i tagged you guys since you've been the most active last time the thread was active, hope you dont mind

 

[cluelessgenius]

48 minutes ago, sluz said:

ok guys, here's a little update. i was away on holidays and out of town, and everything got on a bit of a hold... also i researched a bit more about the topic and i'm here with some new questions and directions.

 

i decided i wanted to try to go for 120-144 hz monitor. also im quite interested if this kind of build with possibly 1070ti would suffice in getting the fps high enough for 1440p or 4k monitors (4k probably no way), so i guess my best bet is a 1440p with 144hz. since all ill do is game and ocassionally use android studio or intellij for coding a bit, and afaik both make most of the use of a single core, like we all stated intel would probably be the better choice for squeezing those 144 fps (i was hyped about ryzen, and the new architecture, but reality is intel will probably do a better job in my case). one thing, atm im interested in playing wow again, and its notorious for not using multiple cores, so i guess theres another reason to go for intel.

also should i get a gsync monitor (they are a quite bit more expensive), but what are your opinions on the extra cash, is it worth it? on the other hand freesync monitors are affordable but will it work with a nvidia card? or if freesync works with amd cards only should i reconsider buying 1070ti?

 

one more question about intel. i know they aim for their sockets to be compatible with 2 gens of cpus, how long are lake cpus gonna be supported for (if it matters at all, with all the talk of switching to ddr5 eventually)? 

 

tnx

 

edit: @GoldenLag, @cluelessgenius i tagged you guys since you've been the most active last time the thread was active, hope you dont mind

 

1. i wouldnt try for 144hz unless its like 1080p for all the competitive stuff. i mean you could but for example i just fell on my face with my 1080Ti. i thought 3440x1440 is not 4k and my monitor only goes to 75hz with me being fine around 60ish so i installed wildlands and put everything on max. boy did that go well. im sitting here with 25-30fps and cant figure out a way to bump those number without me looking at a muddy texture filled screen.

so id probably forget about 144hz and just get a nice and bright 60-75hz or something. and maybe id go for VA instead of IPS this time around. IPS-Glow is sadly something i only learned about once i had one.

 

2. g-sync way not worth it imo. i have a freesync monitor (because most of them are at this point) and an nvidia card and id say getting higher fps is more important than smoothing out lower fps. but in generell if you have stable and high enough fps i wouldnt say im missing sync but then again i have never extensively tested it so what do i know

 

3. ddr5 ? havent heared about that yet and dont blieve its gonna happen anytime soon.

 

4. just get whatever is the latest cpu gen or the second latest used if youre on a budget.

 

5. how dare you tag me in this crap like that do you even know who i am ? ....na jk asking questions and shring opinions and experieces is what this forum is for. on that note dont forget to share your build log with us