Get Ryzen 2K now or wait for real ZEN2?

[jkuang180]

Hello everyone, total newbie here. Looking for some advice on building my new PC for flight sim (P3D).

 

Anyway, in Australia, the Ryzen 1600 is selling for $248 while the 2600X is $313. And with my budget, I am probably gonna get a B350 mobo.

So, is it worth it to get the 2600X now? Or should I wait for the ZEN2 to come out and upgrade the CPU and mobo all together?

[light-v]

It still worth it even on a B350 you just won't get XFR2 so won't boost nearly as high but can be somewhat circumvented with a bios upgrade and overclocking.

 

Zen+ have better ipc than original Zen and better memory support and Zen2 is still TBA.

 

Unless you get a super good deal on original Ryzen going for Ryzen 2000 will get you better overall performance 

[Zmax]

From what I have read ( just amateur) the difference between 1600 and the 2600 is not worth the money. 

 

You could get a x470 motherboard (next generation), and buy 1600 then wait for the next generation. I am not sure on the ETA of Zen2 in 2019

 

This is just my opinion. 

[Sauron]

Waiting is never a bad option, it all depends on whether you need it now or not. ZEN2 probably won't release before q4 2018 or q1 2019.

[jkuang180]

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Waiting is never a bad option, it all depends on whether you need it now or not. ZEN2 probably won't release before q4 2018 or q1 2019.

I guess the thing is, whether it's worth the wait or not. Like, if I go ahead and get ZEN+ now, do I still need to upgrade to ZEN2? If it's another incremental improvement, then I might as well just get 2600X now instead of 1600 and skip ZEN2.

 

From my past experience, whether to wait or not is tricky when it comes to technology.

[Sauron]

31 minutes ago, jkuang180 said:

I guess the thing is, whether it's worth the wait or not. Like, if I go ahead and get ZEN+ now, do I still need to upgrade to ZEN2? If it's another incremental improvement, then I might as well just get 2600X now instead of 1600 and skip ZEN2.

 

From my past experience, whether to wait or not is tricky when it comes to technology.

Right now we can only guess at what the actual difference will be. If the 2600x satisfies your needs right now then there's no reason to wait for something more powerful, if it doesn't then waiting is better - if nothing else, the higher tier chips will become cheaper in time.

[jkuang180]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Right now we can only guess at what the actual difference will be. If the 2600x satisfies your needs right now then there's no reason to wait for something more powerful, if it doesn't then waiting is better - if nothing else, the higher tier chips will become cheaper in time.

Well, I guess I should really go for the ZEN+ then. In this case, should I stick with the B350 mobo? Or should I upgrade that to X470 as well? (100bucks extra to go for X470 atm). Someone suggested me to go with 2600+X470 for better overclocking. Thoughts?

[Sauron]

15 minutes ago, jkuang180 said:

Well, I guess I should really go for the ZEN+ then. In this case, should I stick with the B350 mobo? Or should I upgrade that to X470 as well? (100bucks extra to go for X470 atm). Someone suggested me to go with 2600+X470 for better overclocking. Thoughts?

If you want to overclock you'll need an x470 board, otherwise don't bother.

[AlTech]

28 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Right now we can only guess at what the actual difference will be. If the 2600x satisfies your needs right now then there's no reason to wait for something more powerful, if it doesn't then waiting is better - if nothing else, the higher tier chips will become cheaper in time.

Yeah. In January and February the 1700, 1700X and 1800X came down quite a bit in price on Amazon UK. Especially the 1700X and 1800X.

[jkuang180]

25 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If you want to overclock you'll need an x470 board, otherwise don't bother.

What about a X370? X370 is a lot cheaper than X470 at the moment. And I want a mATX or ITX form factor (I know, it make things harder), and the only X470 option as of now is the ASUS ROG which will set me back a hefty AU$313. Whereas a X370 ITX mobo from ASRock is only AU$189, and it comes with Wi-Fi and Intel Gbyte network all that good stuff as well.

[Sauron]

43 minutes ago, jkuang180 said:

What about a X370? X370 is a lot cheaper than X470 at the moment. And I want a mATX or ITX form factor (I know, it make things harder), and the only X470 option as of now is the ASUS ROG which will set me back a hefty AU$313. Whereas a X370 ITX mobo from ASRock is only AU$189, and it comes with Wi-Fi and Intel Gbyte network all that good stuff as well.

That should work too, you might need to update the bios though.

[dcgreen2k]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

If you want to overclock you'll need an x470 board, otherwise don't bother.

Both X370 and B350 motherboards can overclock.

[jkuang180]

11 hours ago, Sauron said:

That should work too, you might need to update the bios though.

Yea, I am aware of the BIOS thing, will ask the retailer to update that for me for free. Most of the shops I am looking at do prebuild system, so plug a Ryzen 1 into my mobo and update shouldn't be too much of a trouble for them.

[jkuang180]

11 hours ago, thegreengamers said:

Both X370 and B350 motherboards can overclock.

Yes, but a lot of people are saying if I wanna get the juice out of a 1600/2600, I'm better with a X370. While I am aware that VRM is an important factor for OC, it seems like the better B350 boards has decent VRM for Ryzen 5. After all, it's a 6core not a 8core like R7. In regards to BIOS, B350 generally seems to have less feature for OC (according to YouTube video, I don't have personal experience with B350 mobo, neither do people I know), but does that 100Mhz really matter that much?

[Rhoban]

You will get the same OC from a B350 and X370. A YouTuber tested it. 

 

So the most important factor you should look for is the VRM. Make sure it has enough power phases and heatsinks on the VRM. 

I'd go for something with a 10 power phase design or more.

 

Also, Zen 2 is rumored to be on the 7nm architecture. Which means more efficiency, less heat and higher clocks. 

In comparison, Zen 1 is 14nm and Zen+ is 12nm.

So Zen 2 is an actual upgrade, while Zen+ was just an optimization. 

[jkuang180]

5 hours ago, Rhoban said:

You will get the same OC from a B350 and X370. A YouTuber tested it. 

 

So the most important factor you should look for is the VRM. Make sure it has enough power phases and heatsinks on the VRM. 

I'd go for something with a 10 power phase design or more.

 

Also, Zen 2 is rumored to be on the 7nm architecture. Which means more efficiency, less heat and higher clocks. 

In comparison, Zen 1 is 14nm and Zen+ is 12nm.

So Zen 2 is an actual upgrade, while Zen+ was just an optimization. 

Wouldn't 10 power phase for a 6 core Ryzen be overkilled? I mean, of course the more the better, but I've been watching quite a few of mobo PCB breakdown videos from Buildzoid, he always say that. So right now, I am considering 2 B350 mobo from ASRock, the AB350M Pro4 mATX and the AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX.

[Sauron]

6 hours ago, Rhoban said:

You will get the same OC from a B350 and X370. A YouTuber tested it.

The only problem is that B350 tends to come with cheaper parts and may not last if you push it consistently. I've heard horror stories of fried vrms on B350.

[jkuang180]

On 22/04/2018 at 10:44 PM, Sauron said:

The only problem is that B350 tends to come with cheaper parts and may not last if you push it consistently. I've heard horror stories of fried vrms on B350.

Wow, you scare me now. I've been watching buildzoid's video for B350 PCBs, there are a few boards that supposely can handle Ryzen 5. I think it should work for now. But I may consider buying 2600X for the XFR (I know, B350 lacks XFR2 support) just in case I don't wanna push it too hard. 

 

The stories you heard, they only involve the mobo right? it's not like the whole computer just went up in flames, right...?

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, jkuang180 said:

The stories you heard, they only involve the mobo right? it's not like the whole computer just went up in flames, right...?

Yes, but a damaged motherboard could damage other parts.

[jkuang180]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Yes, but a damaged motherboard could damage other parts.

Hoping those mobo manufacturers are not that dumb and didn't put any protection there. I mean, overclocking on a B350 board is not that uncommon. I remember the Athlon XP days, you only buy a AMD cpu because you wanna overclock, LOL.

[Phentos]

Generally a good B350 board should be able to handle some overclocking or XFR2 on a Ryzen 5 part. I'd only trust overclocking on B350 to ASUS or ASrock boards though. I wouldn't even consider the other brands if you're going to OC. 

[Froody129]

Going with the 2600X and using XFR2 you don't really need to overclock. So far it seems you get dramatic increases in required voltage and power consumption for small gains. 

 

I'm unsure how the 2600x works on B350 however.

 

I would seriously consider just getting a 1600 and a B350 while both of them seem to be on decent sales. Percentage improvement of performance from 2600 is much greater than the percentage increase in cost 

[jkuang180]

On 24/04/2018 at 5:43 PM, Phentos said:

Generally a good B350 board should be able to handle some overclocking or XFR2 on a Ryzen 5 part. I'd only trust overclocking on B350 to ASUS or ASrock boards though. I wouldn't even consider the other brands if you're going to OC. 

Okay, ASUS is a bit expensive down here in Australia, but ASRock is good value. I will consider this when I finally get to build it.

[jkuang180]

On 24/04/2018 at 6:04 PM, Froody129 said:

Going with the 2600X and using XFR2 you don't really need to overclock. So far it seems you get dramatic increases in required voltage and power consumption for small gains. 

 

I'm unsure how the 2600x works on B350 however.

 

I would seriously consider just getting a 1600 and a B350 while both of them seem to be on decent sales. Percentage improvement of performance from 2600 is much greater than the percentage increase in cost 

Yea, I am seriously considering getting 1600+B350 then use the spare cash to get a 1070 or even a 1070Ti since the GPU price seem to be dropping now.

[Frenky]

If you decide to go X370, check out asrocks Taichi board, its one of the best