iPhone X grabs 35% of industry profits in Q4 2017

[wasab]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Ahaha  

it is true, especially if you consider your 1000+ macs are high end. lololo

[Blademaster91]

25 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's cute that you think One Plus is selling phones with such small margins to be nice. They're doing it because the ONLY reason to buy their phones is because they're cheap. It's even more naive to think that a 200% markup is out of the ordinary in the real world.

Apple makes their own processor and OS,they could be charging less but don't because excessively greedy profit margins, One Plus is being nice in comparison lol. The latest rumors going around are Apple is dropping the iPhone X for something less expensive, even though they have such a huge share of the industry people just aren't buying overpriced phones.

21 minutes ago, wasab said:

i know that flaship phones did not used to cost $1000+ before apple and Samsung started doing it. it is cute that you think it is perfectly acceptable for apple and samsung to charge the same price as a high end gaming desktop for a mere phone  

I don't like that Samsung wants $700 for their flagship phone,but when both the s9 and the iPhone X apparently cost around $400 to make, at least Samsung isn't selling you on marketing fluff that less is more more when you spend another $200 for the brand image.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Apple makes their own processor and OS,they could be charging less but don't because excessively greedy profit margins, One Plus is being nice in comparison lol. The latest rumors going around are Apple is dropping the iPhone X for something less expensive, even though they have such a huge share of the industry people just aren't buying overpriced phones.

I don't like that Samsung wants $700 for their flagship phone,but when both the s9 and the iPhone X apparently cost around $400 to make, at least Samsung isn't selling you on marketing fluff that less is more more when you spend another $200 for the brand image.

A 150% markup is by no means greedy when you look at the vast majority of products that you buy. Apple also doesn't make their processors, they design them; Apple doesn't actually manufacture any (?) of the components. And making the OS themselves doesn't actually save them money when Android is free.

 

One plus is only being nice because they have no other choice. It's like pretending that AMD is such a saint and would never repeat Intel/Nvidia's behavior. Either One Plus will gain more and more traction and increase prices like every other flagship manufacturer or they will continue to remain in position they are in now where they need to beg for customers.

[wasab]

29 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

One plus is only being nice because they have no other choice. It's like pretending that AMD is such a saint and would never repeat Intel/Nvidia's behavior. Either One Plus will gain more and more traction and increase prices like every other flagship manufacturer or they will continue to remain in position they are in now where they need to beg for customers.

oh boy, i am pretty sure you are not as cynical as you try to make yourself out to be. It doesnt require much logic to see oneplus does not need to subsidize the phones just to gain market share. Their market and retailing strategies drive sales thanks to their social media and invite system

 

29 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

A 150% markup is by no means greedy when you look at the vast majority of products that you buy. Apple also doesn't make their processors, they design them; Apple doesn't actually manufacture any (?) of the components. And making the OS themselves doesn't actually save them money when Android is free.

 

Apples makes all their stuffs in china, how much do you think the labor and parts are gonna cost? hint, apple A11 SoC costs $20 per pop.

 besides the OLED from samsung, they can just call on their partners in china who ship the end products that are assemble in sweatshop conditions

 

futhermore, ios and android make no difference. Both smasung and apple have to pay developers to maintain and update the system. Google might handle the brunt of the development but that does not mean the oem can just sit back, relax, and not worry anout the firmware for their specific hardware.

 

Oh, do you know that unlike the andorid oems, apple owns the app store? developers paid a huge annual fee as well as kickbacks for every sales in the app store. Apple can pretty much sell phones without any markup and still make a ton of profit simply from their user's purchases on the app store. android oem does not have this luxury because playstore is own by google.... unless they wish to create their own appstore which is doable like the amazon appstore and xiaomi appstore. ios cant because apple decided either you pay them or you cant use the phone at all. 

[Taja]

2 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

The 8 has a much smaller screen in about the same size body and with a worse camera. The screen ratio to many is worth the cost.

And that is personal preference, but does not justify anything. Better camera? Ok, fine. But the 8 also has a good camera, and the reason most people care about the camera on the first place is status (omg look at that amazing selfie!1!)

As for the screen, it is a gimmick. A nice on, but still. Not that only apple does that, it is a common practice in EVERY industry, but I find depressing to see how far it got in the smartphone sector... No one needs to have the best always. On smartphones that is more relevant because "bad" smartphones are already good enough - adding tons of ram for example is useless and pisses me off. My phone has 3Gb of ram and no matter how hard I try, i cannot use more than 2 (literally); I dont play games though.

 

Look, what im trying to say is: a flagship of anything is overkill and most of the times full of superfluous stuff, thats why its for niche users, like enthusiasts, rich prople or stupid people looking for status. And thats how it is, I dont like but also dont hate it. What i DO hate is that apple managed to make a luxury thing "mainstream", and thats because they got into people's minds.

[79wjd]

12 minutes ago, Taja said:

And that is personal preference, but does not justify anything. Better camera? Ok, fine. But the 8 also has a good camera, and the reason most people care about the camera on the first place is status (omg look at that amazing selfie!1!)

As for the screen, it is a gimmick. A nice on, but still. Not that only apple does that, it is a common practice in EVERY industry, but I find depressing to see how far it got in the smartphone sector... No one needs to have the best always. On smartphones that is more relevant because "bad" smartphones are already good enough - adding tons of ram for example is useless and pisses me off. My phone has 3Gb of ram and no matter how hard I try, i cannot use more than 2 (literally); I dont play games though.

 

Look, what im trying to say is: a flagship of anything is overkill and most of the times full of superfluous stuff, thats why its for niche users, like enthusiasts, rich prople or stupid people looking for status. And thats how it is, I dont like but also dont hate it. What i DO hate is that apple managed to make a luxury thing "mainstream", and thats because they got into people's minds.

I agree, it's a personal preference, but that preference is what determines the worth of something. I'll pay extra to have a much smaller form factor as it makes it much more comfortable to use my phone.  I personally don't need a flagship and I would personally hold onto a phone for much longer if not for some change that's meaningul enough for me. My laptop is five years old and I still have absolutely zero intention of replacing it within the next three years (unless there is some major change), I don't care about new (well, truthfully I like getting new things, but I also have to have a good reason to do so). But if I see a benefit to something, then I'll pay for that something, and that's always been the way I've upgraded anything. I wouldn't have upgraded if the X wasn't released this year nor would I have upgraded the following year if the X wasn't released.

 

People in general like to upgrade to the newest and best (partially because we have grown accustomed to that due to carrier subsidized upgrades every two years), but it's certainly not exclusively to Apple products.

[abazigal]

9 hours ago, wasab said:

Sure, live and let live right? Problem is that these consumers seem to believe their products are superior because of the Apple logo which are quite annoying. It simply attracts mockery and ridicule.

I have never for one moment thought that I was any superior due to the Apple products that I own. I love my iPhone, Apple Watch, Airpods and iPad Pro because they look great and work great and suit my workflow just fine.  

 

In contrast, it’s often the Apple haters and the critics who seem to want to make themselves feel superior by bashing on Apple (and by extension, their users). Everywhere I go - Cnet, Theverge, people just life pointing out how Apple products are inferior because they lack this feature or that. 

 

And I just find it so comically ironic when people say Apple "needs to" do something like this or it’s "not innovating anymore" but then it turns out the result isn’t something most people end wanting, like Netbooks, or 3D, or phone keyboards.

[79wjd]

11 minutes ago, abazigal said:

I have never for one moment thought that I was any superior due to the Apple products that I own. I love my iPhone, Apple Watch, Airpods and iPad Pro because they look great and work great and suit my workflow just fine.  

 

In contrast, it’s often the Apple haters and the critics who seem to want to make themselves feel superior by bashing on Apple (and by extension, their users). Everywhere I go - Cnet, Theverge, people just life pointing out how Apple products are inferior because they lack this feature or that. 

 

And I just find it so comically ironic when people say Apple "needs to" do something like this or it’s "not innovating anymore" but then it turns out the result isn’t something most people end wanting, like Netbooks, or 3D, or phone keyboards.

As much as people like to pretend it's the case, there is nothing special about Apple fanboys. They're no better or worse than Apple haters, Samsung fanboys, Samsung haters, Microsoft fanboys, etc....

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, wasab said:

oh boy, i am pretty sure you are not as cynical as you try to make yourself out to be. It doesnt require much logic to see oneplus does not need to subsidize the phones just to gain market share. Their market and retailing strategies drive sales thanks to their social media and invite system

 

Apples makes all their stuffs in china, how much do you think the labor and parts are gonna cost? hint, apple A11 SoC costs $20 per pop.

 besides the OLED from samsung, they can just call on their partners in china who ship the end products that are assemble in sweatshop conditions

 

futhermore, ios and android make no difference. Both smasung and apple have to pay developers to maintain and update the system. Google might handle the brunt of the development but that does not mean the oem can just sit back, relax, and not worry anout the firmware for their specific hardware.

 

Oh, do you know that unlike the andorid oems, apple owns the app store? developers paid a huge annual fee as well as kickbacks for every sales in the app store. Apple can pretty much sell phones without any markup and still make a ton of profit simply from their user's purchases on the app store. android oem does not have this luxury because playstore is own by google.... unless they wish to create their own appstore which is doable like the amazon appstore and xiaomi appstore. ios cant because apple decided either you pay them or you cant use the phone at all. 

I'm not sure any of that actually address what has been said here.  Apple have a markup that is representative of their product and their position, it is the reason they are the worlds largest company.  One plus would also choose that mark up except that they know very well that having such a huge markup on a product that does not have sufficient client base to support is a death sentence. 

 

Do you know how many phone manufacturers go broke each year? Most of them selling cheap phones because no one will pay the premium.  Even the top end luxury phones with decent markups go bankrupt if they aren't watching the market properly.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_mobile_phone_manufacturers

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/13/15963656/vertu-luxury-phone-manufacturing-bankrupt

 

To assume any company is pricing out of compassion or some sort of goodwill is to look at a company that will not be here in a year or a deluded understanding of corporate success.   Love or hate apple,  like every other manufacturer they will do what they need to to be able to keep charging top dollar. 

[wasab]

18 minutes ago, abazigal said:

I have never for one moment thought that I was any superior due to the Apple products that I own. I love my iPhone, Apple Watch, Airpods and iPad Pro because they look great and work great and suit my workflow just fine.  

 

In contrast, it’s often the Apple haters and the critics who seem to want to make themselves feel superior by bashing on Apple (and by extension, their users). Everywhere I go - Cnet, Theverge, people just life pointing out how Apple products are inferior because they lack this feature or that. 

 

And I just find it so comically ironic when people say Apple "needs to" do something like this or it’s "not innovating anymore" but then it turns out the result isn’t something most people end wanting, like Netbooks, or 3D, or phone keyboards.

How can you blame people for Apple bashing when every new phone release means huge line of people camping outside an Apple store lol

[wasab]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I'm not sure any of that actually address what has been said here.  Apple have a markup that is representative of their product and their position, it is the reason they are the worlds largest company.  One plus would also choose that mark up except that they know very well that having such a huge markup on a product that does not have sufficient client base to support is a death sentence. 

 

Do you know how many phone manufacturers go broke each year? Most of them selling cheap phones because no one will pay the premium.  Even the top end luxury phones with decent markups go bankrupt if they aren't watching the market properly.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_mobile_phone_manufacturers

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/13/15963656/vertu-luxury-phone-manufacturing-bankrupt

 

To assume any company is pricing out of compassion or some sort of goodwill is to look at a company that will not be here in a year or a deluded understanding of corporate success.   Love or hate apple,  like every other manufacturer they will do what they need to to be able to keep charging top dollar. 

$500 bucks for a flagship is reasonable. $1000+ isn’t. It isn’t that one plus is pricing out of comparison, they are pricing reasonably. iPhone and Samsung is simply jacking up the prices way up because they have a huge cult like fan base.

[79wjd]

Just now, wasab said:

$500 bucks for a flagship usb reasonable. $1000+ isn’t. It isn’t that one plus is pricing out of comparison, they are pricing reasonably. iPhone and Samsung is simply jacking up the prices way up because they have a huge cult like fan base.

No, they're pricing out of necessity. Period. 

[wasab]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

No, they're pricing out of necessity. Period. 

How would you know? Are you their chief financial officer? 

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, wasab said:

How can you blame people for Apple bashing when every new phone release means huge line of people camping outside an Apple store lol

It’s just ironic the cult following that has formed around hating on Apple and in turn has made those people worse than the people who just want the next iPhone. 

 

Being toxic because you don’t like someone’s phone is just shallow af. 

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, wasab said:

How would you know? Are you their chief financial officer? 

Because I'm not naive. You don't need to be a CFO to know that a company will always charge as much as they can get away with, being that their primary goal is to make money. 

[mr moose]

Just now, wasab said:

$500 bucks for a flagship is reasonable. $1000+ isn’t. It isn’t that one plus is pricing out of comparison, they are pricing reasonably. iPhone and Samsung is simply jacking up the prices way up because they have a huge cult like fan base.

 

I think you should read what I said a gain.

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, wasab said:

How would you know? Are you their chief financial officer? 

Believe it or not, the margins on the iPhone are not outrageously high. And Apple is a massive company and employs thousands of people across the world. They have to pay at those people. 

 

Or would you rather those people lose their jobs? 

[wasab]

7 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Because I'm not naive. You don't need to be a CFO to know that a company will always charge as much as they can get away with being that their primary goal is to make money. 

Not that I am attacking your credibility but you have not substantiate what you claimed. supply and demand is more complicated than you think. If they wish to charge as high as possible, their stock of one plus 5t wouldn’t have sold out 4 months prior than intended. They literally aren’t selling any phones right now because they are sold out yet I have not seen any price hike.

Edited April 20, 2018 by wasab
Grammar error, not finished

[wasab]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I think you should read what I said a gain.

Please read my post, I don’t think you did.

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, wasab said:

Not that I am attacking your credibility, supply and demand is more complicated than you think. If they wish to charge as high as possible, their stock of one plus 5t wouldn’t have sold out 4 months prior than intended. They literally aren’t seeking any phones right now because they are sold out yet I have not seen any price hike.

I understand supply and demand quite well. Any company that prioritizes instant gratification isn't going to be around for long. There are benefits to being cheaper in order to grow marketshare, and that's exactly what they're doing; they're growing their marketshare so that more people will buy their products as they raise prices -- as they've been doing since the One Plus One.

 

All of that aside, they still have to predict the demand, and they're not always right -- that's why some products see immediate price drops while others maintain their price for quite some time. But it's also disadvantageous to price too high and have to lower the price.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

I understand supply and demand quite well. Any company that prioritizes instant gratification isn't going to be around for long. There are benefits to being cheaper in order to grow marketshare, and that's exactly what they're doing; they're growing their marketshare so that more people will buy their products as they raise prices -- as they've been doing since the One Plus One.

 

All of that aside, they still have to predict the demand, and they're not always right.

Yep the ultimate goal of OnePlus is to increase the prices once they get a following. 

 

There is a video on why OnePlus and brands like them will eventually “betray” their original customers: 

 

[Drak3]

19 minutes ago, wasab said:

$500 bucks for a flagship is reasonable. $1000+ isn’t.

Looking at fit and finish of the final product and how the companies support them, $500 for a flagship is a straight scam.

 

20 minutes ago, wasab said:

It isn’t that one plus is pricing out of comparison, they are pricing reasonably. iPhone and Samsung is simply jacking up the prices way up because they have a huge cult like fan base.

OnePlus' pricing is only reasonable for a company that cuts every possible corner, and then cuts even more corners. Apple, Samsung, and every other OEM with an $700+ flagship cut some corners, but not to the point that the worth of the end device is lower than the bottom of the barrel asking price.

[wasab]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Looking at fit and finish of the final product and how the companies support them, $500 for a flagship is a straight scam.

 

OnePlus' pricing is only reasonable for a company that cuts every possible corner, and then cuts even more corners. Apple, Samsung, and every other OEM with an $700+ flagship cut some corners, but not to the point that the worth of the end device is lower than the bottom of the barrel asking price.

Okay, give me some qualities that $1000+ have over the $500 ones that justified 2x the pricing. Let me know what corners are being cut.

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, wasab said:

Okay, give me some qualities that $1000+ have over the $500 ones that justified 2x the pricing. Let me know what corners are being cut.

Just open one up and compare them. 

[wasab]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Just open one up and compare them. 

I see top handset has inferior storage, ram, and battery. What corners are being cut again?