New iPad announced - A10 Fusion SoC, Apple Pencil support, $299 for students

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Perfectly normal. TouchID is faster, period, but the trade off of getting a better design that remains ergonomic (placing the finger print reader on the back is just the wrong thing to do imo. Its too close to the camera, and you can't unlock it if the phone is on a table.) is in my view worth losing TouchID. 

 

I won't miss it if I do decide to go for the iPhone X. 

I do look forward to screen-wide fingerprint sensors, but apple probably won't bring it back because that would be seen as admitting faceID isn't for everyone... which is stupid, but that's how things work.

 

Actually I thought I would dislike the fingerprint scanner placement more on the s9+. I honestly did. Now I have a skin on the phone, so maybe that makes a difference (everything except the fingerprint scanner and the exact circle of the lense has texture), but I haven't hit it actually since the first day or so.

 

FaceID doesn't work on a table worth shit, FYI. Like technically it does, but practically it's an ergonomic disaster. Ofc if you use a stand or something that isn't an issue, which I actually do do. The positioning of the sensor does mean that I never have those awkward moments where I try to unlock the device with a finger other than the 6 (I think?) I had recorded with the forward device, because literally the only fingers that make any sense at all are the two index fingers. The back positioning is also ludicrously, incredibly fantastic for pulling out of a pocket. But off of a table definitely is slower than it used to be. Honestly, wouldn't mind having both at some point in the future, but I also know that will never happen.

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Honestly, wouldn't mind having both at some point in the future, but I also know that will never happen.

Not on an iPhone, no. 

 

One thing about Apple is that they NEVER (apart from some like the iPod Shuffle because people actually hated the 3rd generation) backtrack on changes, because to Apple, backtracking would be seen as admitting defeat, which has never been their thing. 

 

Nothing against Apple, it's just been their thing, which is usually why they'd rather spend their time making sure the tech works because once it's in, it's not going away until they replace it with something they deem to be better. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

True, but the amount of people that that split second is going to matter to is not that big. 

 

Is it the best it ever will be? No, but it is the best that it could be at the time and Apple produced a technology that was reliable and fast enough to be deployed on a flagship device and sell well. 

 

In the end that is all it boils down to. FaceID was good enough to make the X a success despite its flaws. Now that the initial "meta" change of using the iPhone has been achieved its all improvement R&D now as the market phases out TouchID iPhones and replaces them with FaceID. 

 

TouchID made a good show, but FaceID is the new love child that is going to replace it. 

I agree that that will happen. I don't think it should, again because less options is bad, and slower options only is worse. Like the reason why apple has a swipe up functionality is so that you can still check your notifications discretely (not that that is actually that useful on iOS since the notification pane is... a pain) and the phone didn't just auto unlock to home instantly. But that issue is going to be there moving forward for a very long time (if ever). I don't really see how you get around it.

 

Which is what is so nice about fingerprint readers really. You choose when to unlock so that problem doesn't actually exist.

Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Not on an iPhone, no. 

 

One thing about Apple is that they NEVER (apart from some like the iPod Shuffle because people actually hated the 3rd generation) backtrack on changes, because to Apple, backtracking would be seen as admitting defeat, which has never been their thing. 

Unfortunately so. Even when they are literally just being stupid. (magic mouse... segmenting usb-c and lightning... firewire to a lesser extent)

 

 

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Unfortunately so. Even when they are literally just being stupid. (magic mouse... segmenting usb-c and lightning... firewire to a lesser extent)

 

 

Well, that's Apple.

 

Unless it's so universally hated like the third iPod Shuffle, once it's there, it's there and it's never going to reverse. 

 

It sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't but unless Apple sees a threat to their bottom line, none of it is going to change. 

[DrMacintosh]

6 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

not that that is actually that useful on iOS since the notification pane is... a pain

Which is something that is talk about in that S9 review video. The contrasting views of the iOS Notification Center. 

 

I simply don't see the issue and many would agree with me. Notifications behave between devices using cloud syncing, you don't get spammed, and iOS handles permissions way better than Android does. 

 

The only place where I see iOS fails in notifications is that it does not have a group by app option (it did but was later removed) 

 

and I don't really want a group by app option anyway. When I get a notification I want to see them as they rolled in, grouping them by app ruins my ability to scroll down and see a chronological breakdown of what I missed, when I missed it. 

 

Now that might all be personal preference but I am rather happy with notifications as they exist in iOS 11 and I love the control you have over what apps can and cannot do in iOS. 

[D13H4RD]

5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Which is something that is talk about in that S9 review video. The contrasting views of the iOS Notification Center. 

 

I simply don't see the issue and many would agree with me. Notifications behave between devices using cloud syncing, you don't get spammed, and iOS handles permissions way better than Android does. 

I prefer the Android notification shade but if you prefer the iOS one, that's fine.

 

I've used both and I didn't have an issue with either 

[Curufinwe_wins]

9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

snip

I guess. But if I come to my phone and I have 9 emails on one account, 7 on another, 17 messages, and some other app notifications I don't want all 30 of them on the front page. That's super infuriating. Like you can scroll within per app groups, but just isolating them up really is nice.

 

And it's more than grouping by app, using outlook with multiple accounts shows separate groupings for each account. Super handy for work+personal emails. Likewise most apps allow for even more separation (like grouping per conversation so if you have one group chat that is going ape-shit it doesn't prevent you from noticing that one message from a different sender group/person). 

 

Also it only groups/isolates them when the number exceeds a certain threshold (I think it's three, but it might be 4).

 

But certainly it is more or less a different preference to get used to, and there isn't a good reason why we don't all have the choice to use either. Other than herding/marketing self-segmentation.

[DrMacintosh]

5 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Also it only groups/isolates them when the number exceeds a certain threshold (I think it's three, but it might be 4).

That is the only thing I think I might find useful. If there are 4 notifications from 1 app happening within 1 min or so, the phone would group that app into an expandable menu but would still have to remain in the chronological flow of time. If another app broke the chain I would expect to see a different group above the break. 

 

Otherwise I prefer seeing everything spread out by time, not type. But as stated, that is personal preference 100%. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

That is the only thing I think I might find useful. If there are 4 notifications from 1 app happening within 1 min the phone would group that app into an expandable menu but would still have to remain in the chronological flow of time. If another app broke the chain I would expect to see a different group above the break. 

 

Otherwise I prefer seeing everything spread out by time, not type. But as stated, that is personal preference 100%. 

Fair enough.The other big things I personally missed (day to day) when I swapped back were the app drawer and the back button. Like yes, there is thankfully some implementation of both (wasn't always this way, **shivers**), but it still feels slower and less consistent than the two additional system wide buttons. But I guess that is the tradeoff you get moving away from the hyper-streamlined home-button only motto Apple liked so much.

[DrMacintosh]

8 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Fair enough.The other big things I personally missed (day to day) when I swapped back were the app drawer and the back button. Like yes, there is thankfully some implementation of both (wasn't always this way, **shivers**), but it still feels slower and less consistent than the two additional system wide buttons. But I guess that is the tradeoff you get moving away from the hyper-streamlined home-button only motto Apple liked so much.

I could never get behind the back button. So many apps these days have software back buttons even if the phone they are running on has a hardware back button. 

 

iOS just took the software route of going back and its effectively the same but stylistically different. It should be obvious which I think is superior. So much of the UI is baked into controls anyway so why waste space making a back button and a multi task button when you could have more display area? I think the "HomeBar" on the iPhone X is a brilliant implementation of that idea. 

 

Its thin, you can swipe on it to switch apps, and actually makes the keyboard make more functional sense as Linus pointed out in his review

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

19 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I could never get behind the back button. So many apps these days have software back buttons even if the phone they are running on has a hardware back button. 

 

iOS just took the software route of going back and its effectively the same but stylistically different. It should be obvious which I think is superior. So much of the UI is baked into controls anyway so why waste space making a back button and a multi task button when you could have more display area? I think the "HomeBar" on the iPhone X is a brilliant implementation of that idea. 

 

Its thin, you can swipe on it to switch apps, and actually makes the keyboard make more functional sense as Linus pointed out in his review

Well, honestly there was only half-one generation where we had awkward big-ish on-screen buttons. Before that we had hardware buttons next to the home, which obviously took no more or less screen space than anything else, and now the buttons are tiny screen wise [at least on my S9+], and disappear when you they aren't needed/used/wanted by an app. I don't actually like the homebar design much because the on-screen transparent buttons take up basically identical vertical same space, but it's a good implementation for avoiding the buttons if that is the design goal, which obviously for apple it is.

 

Linus in his review was pretty negative about the homebar as a whole compared to Android buttons (around 6:40 mark in the iPhone X video).

 

 

The point Linus did like about the keyboard (and I do as well) is that above the chinbar, there is a pretty nice big open space and then the keyboard. moving the keyboard up on the screen sacrifices visible real-estate, but definately improves ergonomics. And it is a GREAT location for the voice command. A+ on that one. I look forward (if it doesn't exist already) to installing a third party keyboard that uses the exact same layout.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

For reference here is my minimalist front page. Just to show the space taken up by the buttons heh.

 

[D13H4RD]

I actually liked the gestures the more I used them Tbh. 

 

Though I see A LOT of iPhone X users use AssistiveTouch to get the home button. Maybe I'm one of the few who knows how to use the iPhone X the moment I pick it up 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

That 100 dollar apple pencil is such complete horseshit. [As it is for all the companies charging that kind of money for the attachments].

 

And ofc that's where the hyper majority of the profit on these devices will be made.

You are right lets all buy the blob on the end of a stick from Aliexpress for 50c

[Blademaster91]

Yeah a $99 pen on top of a $329 tablet is such a deal,which you also have to charge,only lasts 12hours,cant store the pencil on the device, and isn't anywhere near as good as a Surface or Wacom pen.

This tablet is terrible for getting any real work done, no keyboard, worse than a Chromebook for education as glass is a lot more fragile.

[Curufinwe_wins]

26 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

You are right lets all buy the blob on the end of a stick from Aliexpress for 50c

When an iPhone7 costs 220 dollars to make... how much do you think this pencil costs? 10-15 dollars including levelized RnD? Its obvious this is the real profit piece. 

 

I doubt apple is selling the iPad at a loss, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Apple straight up made more profit from the pencil than from the iPad itself.

[TheRandomness]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah A $99 pen on top of a $299 tablet is such a deal,which you also have to charge,only last 12hours,cant store on the device, and isn't anywhere near as good as a Surface or Wacom pen.

This tablet is terrible for getting any real work done, no keyboard, worse than a Chromebook for education as glass is a lot more fragile.

Speaking as a student who uses iPads for school, I find them a lot more convenient to use compared to a laptop. They’re much easier to carry around, they are surprisingly durable (moreso with a case) and the multitasking is a great distraction provider in a lesson. 

[djneo]

11 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah a $99 pen on top of a $329 tablet is such a deal,which you also have to charge,only lasts 12hours,cant store the pencil on the device, and isn't anywhere near as good as a Surface or Wacom pen.

This tablet is terrible for getting any real work done, no keyboard, worse than a Chromebook for education as glass is a lot more fragile.

The Pen is way to expensive for a 329 tablet, but the pen is pretty good

i have been using an iPad Air 2 in my backpack for years, with a case and sometimes a case with keyboard. it still looks great, and i have done a lot work on the iPad, i know that is just me. But there is a lot of app's so you can do work on it ( i work as a web developer )

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, TheRandomness said:

Speaking as a student who uses iPads for school, I find them a lot more convenient to use compared to a laptop. They’re much easier to carry around, they are surprisingly durable (moreso with a case) and the multitasking is a great distraction provider in a lesson. 

I use an iPad Pro currently. 

 

I still think it's nowhere near the point of replacing my laptop but for what it is, it's pretty darn good as a supplementary device for note taking among other things 

[Commodus]

5 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

When an iPhone7 costs 220 dollars to make... how much do you think this pencil costs? 10-15 dollars including levelized RnD? Its obvious this is the real profit piece. 

 

I doubt apple is selling the iPad at a loss, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Apple straight up made more profit from the pencil than from the iPad itself.

Those cost breakdowns aren't really representative of how much it actually costs to make and sell a device.  Apple's gross profit margins tend to hover around 35-38 percent.  That's still higher than most OEMs, but it's a myth that Apple (or another vendor like Samsung) is making two or three times the cost of the device in profit.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the profit margin on the Pencil is higher, but in terms of making more cash?  Not necessarily.

[DrMacintosh]

Also everyone seems to have forgot that Athere will be a $50 Apple Pencil but without the pressure levels.

 

And yes, a normal Apple Pencil is better than a Surface Pen. 

[Drak3]

@D13H4RD2L1V3

Your idea won't work anyways, the new iPad lacks the smart connector.

[Coaxialgamer]

Considering the current tablet market , this is a VERY decent tablet for that price. The a10 is one of the fastest chips around

[YamiYukiSenpai]

In the near future, kids will never know how to save files, or make manual backups.

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, YamiYukiSenpai said:

In the near future, kids will never know how to save files, or make manual backups.

Who needs USB-C or an SD expansion slot for saving files when you can just save it to the iCloud?

4 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Also everyone seems to have forgot that Athere will be a $50 Apple Pencil but without the pressure levels.

 

And yes, a normal Apple Pencil is better than a Surface Pen. 

The Logitech crayon? It only has up to 8 hours of use between charges, which you also have to carry a lightning cable for. Though what makes a basic input stylus better than the pressure sensitive Surface pen that also requires no charging, or even the S-pen you get with the tab A 10.1? While $329 is cheap for an ipad, adding the $99 pen and another $99 for a case with a keyboard built in makes it more expensive than a chromebook that is better suited for taking notes.

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

When an iPhone7 costs 220 dollars to make... how much do you think this pencil costs? 10-15 dollars including levelized RnD? Its obvious this is the real profit piece. 

 

I doubt apple is selling the iPad at a loss, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Apple straight up made more profit from the pencil than from the iPad itself.

A company should always strive for its investors to make the most profit that it can - it can sell these at that price so why not? Lack of competition always leads to high prices.