Vega 64 Being bottlenecked by i7 4790k @ 4.5ghz ?

[Mick Naughty]

Yea but what have you done exactly?

Don't really see an issue playing on 1080 and all. My card did the same thing. 

[iamcll]

20 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Yea but what have you done exactly?

Don't really see an issue playing on 1080 and all. My card did the same thing. 

I've overclocked, Underclocked the CPU, Disabled hyperthreading And ofc re-enabled it, Disabled the cpu's gpu, Overclocked and underclocked the GPU, I've changed my win 7 power settings soo much times i can't tell you, I've tried every AMD vega driver known to exist. i've benchmarked every benchmark i know to use i've done win7 ram tests, I've tested all my hdds/Sdd's via programs.

I've ran with all types of resolutions from 1080p-4k i've enabled and disabled free-sync. I've taken the PC apart and put it back together at-least twice. Not sure what else there is to do, Thus i'm here.

 

 

[Mick Naughty]

What about gpu drivers? When did it start happening?

[iamcll]

5 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

What about gpu drivers? When did it start happening?

It's never not happened, Since i've put the vega 64 in my pc it's always been like this.

[KarathKasun]

4 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Your cpu is not the bottleneck. 

 

In the first picture your GPU is being fully utilized. In the second, it isn't, but your CPU is still running at around 50-60%... so it isn't the cpu.

 

My guess is you have on vsync or similar which is causing your gpu utilization to be 70%ish

In a single thread heavy game the CPU can be maxed out at 25%.

 

3 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

depends . that number is only total cpu usage . He might have half the threads pegged at 100% with the rest being idle. the only way to know for sure is to get per core usage

edit: nvm , i'm tired , didn't see those stats

Windows thread scheduler will bounce threads from core to core, causing a single thread bottleneck to look like 12.5% or 25% on all cores.

[iamcll]

4 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

In a single thread heavy game the CPU can be maxed out at 25%.

 

Windows thread scheduler will bounce threads from core to core, causing a single thread bottleneck to look like 12.5% or 25% on all cores.

Are you saying this could be some form of bottleneck. ?

[KarathKasun]

Just now, iamcll said:

Are you saying this could be some form of bottleneck. ?

Its a CPU bottleneck.  CPU usage is the same from one screenshot to the next.

[iamcll]

1 minute ago, KarathKasun said:

Its a CPU bottleneck.  CPU usage is the same from one screenshot to the next.

So basically i should just get a new mobo/cpu/ram then if i want to max out my gpu

[KarathKasun]

Just now, iamcll said:

So basically i should just get a new mobo/cpu/ram then if i want to max out my gpu

Pretty much.

 

i5 8600 or i7 8700 should be able to push the GPU a bit harder.  Rember that a bottleneck in one app or game does not mean there is a bottleneck in another game.

 

Newer RTS games are usually CPU bottlenecked regardless of the CPU you use.

[iamcll]

Just now, KarathKasun said:

Pretty much.

 

i5 8600 or i7 8700 should be able to push the GPU a bit harder.  Rember that a bottleneck in one app or game does not mean there is a bottleneck in another game.

 

Newer RTS games are usually CPU bottlenecked regardless of the CPU you use.

Well shit, Ok then.

[gepowr]

6 hours ago, iamcll said:

Well shit, Ok then.

I can assure you, i am experiencing the same thing. Not that much because i only have a gtx 970 atm but in gta online e.g. i only got 70-99% gpu usage on high settings. Once i cranked up the settings to very high with some msaa my gpu usage changed to 99% almost all the time. However i think the i7 4790k is still performing great for the most games, still not worth the money for ddr4 ram and a new 8700k, at least for me. My i7 also hits 4.6+ GHz stable at least which should eliminate a lot of bottlenecking in most games. It also depends on what is a playable experience for you and i have not seen a single game which the 4790k could not pleasently handle but that's just my own experience.

[AngryBeaver]

13 hours ago, KarathKasun said:

In a single thread heavy game the CPU can be maxed out at 25%.

 

Windows thread scheduler will bounce threads from core to core, causing a single thread bottleneck to look like 12.5% or 25% on all cores.

This isn't one of those types of games. Also in that scenario most CPU's would still be having bottleneck issues.

 

Also if you look at the screen shot we aren't talking about total cpu utilization. We are actually seeing the PER CORE stats. NONE of the cores are hitting 100%. 

 

So in order for the CPU to be the bottleneck it would mean that it is getting more drawcalls and requests along with processing the game and such than it can handle. In this scenario we should be seeing some cores maxed out, if they are not maxed out then the cpu still has horsepower to throw around.

 

That means the bottleneck is coming from somewhere else. It shouldn't be Vram related due to the fact this card has LOTS of it to spare. That means it could be a system ram issue, has the op had any bluescreen issues? If not does he have enough RAM to keep the machine from needing to access virtual memory and thus bringing things to a hault?

 

Since it isn't the CPU or GPU bottlenecking the system, that means it comes down to the ability for the machine to access the data to process for rendering. Which would point to a ram/disk issue.

 

Looking at his userbench.. it would appear ram and disks are not the issue... so now lets look at other causes.

 

I see he is still running on windows 7, which in this day and age is EOL. That means driver support is probably lacking. A driver issue could also cause the problem we see above. So this could be as simple as upgrading to windows 10.

 

Looking at what is available to me now... CPU/GPU/RAM/Storage all seem to be up to par. Not sure what PSU he is running, but I am not thinking this is a power issue due to the first screenshot. Temps are fine, so that brings us to driver issues and/or running an outdate OS that might not necessarily support the new hardware like the Vega 64.

[gepowr]

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

This isn't one of those types of games. Also in that scenario most CPU's would still be having bottleneck issues.

 

Also if you look at the screen shot we aren't talking about total cpu utilization. We are actually seeing the PER CORE stats. NONE of the cores are hitting 100%. 

 

So in order for the CPU to be the bottleneck it would mean that it is getting more drawcalls and requests along with processing the game and such than it can handle. In this scenario we should be seeing some cores maxed out, if they are not maxed out then the cpu still has horsepower to throw around.

 

That means the bottleneck is coming from somewhere else. It shouldn't be Vram related due to the fact this card has LOTS of it to spare. That means it could be a system ram issue, has the op had any bluescreen issues? If not does he have enough RAM to keep the machine from needing to access virtual memory and thus bringing things to a hault?

 

Since it isn't the CPU or GPU bottlenecking the system, that means it comes down to the ability for the machine to access the data to process for rendering. Which would point to a ram/disk issue.

 

Looking at his userbench.. it would appear ram and disks are not the issue... so now lets look at other causes.

 

I see he is still running on windows 7, which in this day and age is EOL. That means driver support is probably lacking. A driver issue could also cause the problem we see above. So this could be as simple as upgrading to windows 10.

 

Looking at what is available to me now... CPU/GPU/RAM/Storage all seem to be up to par. Not sure what PSU he is running, but I am not thinking this is a power issue due to the first screenshot. Temps are fine, so that brings us to driver issues and/or running an outdate OS that might not necessarily support the new hardware like the Vega 64.

Well as i said i am experiencing this too and i'm on Windows 10 with 16gb ram. It has to be the 4790kas strange as it sounds.

[AngryBeaver]

1 minute ago, gepowr said:

Well as i said i am experiencing this too and i'm on Windows 10 with 16gb ram. It has to be the 4790kas strange as it sounds.

Then it could very well be a hardware conflict with this specific CPU and GPU combination. In any case that should be something that drivers will sort out in the future. OP, might need to just message AMD and start a dialogue explaining his issue and giving them the information they request.

[Mick Naughty]

I'm sure the vega is slower then a 1080, so I'm sure its not. Poor system or another piece of hardware. Not much info to go off.

[AngryBeaver]

Also doing a little digging it seems that the 4790k at 4.5ghz doesn't have issues with bottlenecking a 1080ti. The 1080ti is much faster than the vega 64, which brings me back to my earlier comments.

[asus killer]

17 hours ago, iamcll said:

As it says in the title i'm pretty sure my cpu is holding me back hard in some games in some areas by up to 40%, Just want someone to confirm this is the case, i've attached an example

PC specs http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7502258

the cpu is not thermal throttling and the usage is about the same in both screens, CPU1 is never maxed out. It can't be a CPU bottleneck and it seems it's doing what it's told.

The GPU is also not thermal throttling but it fluctuates a lot, so i would say it's problem with the vega card. OC gone wrong?

[M300843499]

It is a bottleneck ignore the denial around here.

[iamcll]

57 minutes ago, asus killer said:

the cpu is not thermal throttling and the usage is about the same in both screens, CPU1 is never maxed out. It can't be a CPU bottleneck and it seems it's doing what it's told.

The GPU is also not thermal throttling but it fluctuates a lot, so i would say it's problem with the vega card. OC gone wrong?

I wish it was as simple as an OC gone wrong but nope, Things have been like this since the day i put these parts together.

[M300843499]

RAM might be too slow in certain areas and pulls down GPU performance, what speed is your RAM? What timings?

[iamcll]

3 minutes ago, M300843499 said:

RAM might be too slow in certain areas and pulls down GPU performance, what speed is your RAM? What timings?

Here we go just some 1600 ram, Although i looked online and apparently ram speed doesn't mean anything to performance. That's what i got from a few years old linus tech video anyways.

[Mira Yurizaki]

We need a sample size larger than one game to determine what's really going on.

 

But my best guess at the moment is from the screenshot of the game you're running, only that particular game has an issue where not enough threads are ready to run and performance is limited by single core performance.

[M300843499]

1 minute ago, iamcll said:

https://gyazo.com/7709c40522198c41cd3a465b4f333592

Timings for 1600mhz are high but they look like lower performing sticks of ram anyhow.

CL 7-8 is where you will see 1600mhz shine.

 

 

[iamcll]

5 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

We need a sample size larger than one game to determine what's really going on.

 

But my best guess at the moment is from the screenshot of the game you're running, only that particular game has an issue where not enough threads are ready to run and performance is limited by single core performance.

Like i've said before this happens in almost every game i've played, Witcher 3, GTA V, Farcry primal, Doom, Dishonored, Star citizen AC, Fallout 4 <- but pretty sure fallout runs like shit for everyone soo ignore that one i guess, Also games like prey & TheHunter call of the wild.

 

One thing to mention this vaires, Typically happens worse/more when looking at where the *Action* Is for example the pic i showed was 5 secs apart one looking at the sky and one at the center of the map where people are shooting each-other in multiplayer.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Also to demonstrate what I mean by my post, this is a histogram of how many threads were running on GTAV (from PcPer):

This is why GTAV's average performance gains largely drop off after four cores. It spends most of its time running three or four. However, since it does spend a significant enough amount of time with five and six threads, this explains why 4C/8T processors perform better in minimum frame rates.

 

Basically, you may be more at the mercy of your software, but upgrading the hardware wouldn't hurt either. Just that performance would improve by not by much.

 

3 minutes ago, iamcll said:

One thing to mention this vaires, Typically happens worse/more when looking at where the *Action* Is for example the pic i showed was 5 secs apart one looking at the sky and one at the center of the map where people are shooting each-other in multiplayer.

More action taxes the CPU, but again depending on how the game was designed, it may not actually be multithreaded well enough.