Are spc pumps any good?

[Jumper1971]

So, I was looking at doing a custom loop, and noticed that at ek’s website, ddc pumps are WAY louder at 35db vs the spc’s 25db. The liquid movement is 200 vs 350 and was wondering if it’s worth it? Or how much the spc can really do? (Cpu, 360 rad, reservoir, pump)

[W-L]

11 minutes ago, Jumper1971 said:

So, I was looking at doing a custom loop, and noticed that at ek’s website, ddc pumps are WAY louder at 35db vs the spc’s 25db. The liquid movement is 200 vs 350 and was wondering if it’s worth it? Or how much the spc can really do? (Cpu, 360 rad, reservoir, pump)

The SPC pumps are entry level pumps I would recommend something like a D5 if your aiming for silence, the DDC would be the second one up as it's a little noisier.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

A 360 for just a CPU? what you doing, trying to get 6ghz on an 8700K?

[Enderman]

Don't cheap out, just get a D5.

DDCs also suck.

[AngryBeaver]

14 hours ago, Enderman said:

Don't cheap out, just get a D5.

DDCs also suck.

I will take my swifttech mcp35x's over a D5 any day.  They have much better head pressure which means once you throw anything restrictive into a loop they will flow just as well as a d5. I personally run two of them in line so that I can keep their rpm speed lower which reduces the air flow you need in the case and also so I have some redundancy in the event one ever fails.

 

I have used d5's in the past and they are quiet and can move lots of water, but they are not good once you add restrictions to your loop.

 

 

MCP655 is the D5.

 

As you can see the D5 only overtakes the mcp35x at the NO pressure mark which is unrealistic in a loop. So when it comes to maximum usable flow then the mcp35x (ddc) comes out ahead. So ounce your resistance his a rating of about .85 then the DDC pulls ahead and stays ahead.

[Enderman]

37 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

I will take my swifttech mcp35x's over a D5 any day.  They have much better head pressure which means once you throw anything restrictive into a loop they will flow just as well as a d5. I personally run two of them in line so that I can keep their rpm speed lower which reduces the air flow you need in the case and also so I have some redundancy in the event one ever fails.

 

I have used d5's in the past and they are quiet and can move lots of water, but they are not good once you add restrictions to your loop.

 

 

MCP655 is the D5.

 

As you can see the D5 only overtakes the mcp35x at the NO pressure mark which is unrealistic in a loop. So when it comes to maximum usable flow then the mcp35x (ddc) comes out ahead. So ounce your resistance his a rating of about .85 then the DDC pulls ahead and stays ahead.

A D5 has more than enough pressure for anything you can throw in a PC watercooling loop, even at lower speeds.

I think you're severely overestimating the amount of head pressure needed in a watercooling loop.

 

The DDC is not only loud but overheats and dies far more often, it is one of the most unreliable pumps unless you put a metal heatsink on it, and that only fixes the overheating issues not the horrible noise it's got.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, Enderman said:

A D5 has more than enough pressure for anything you can throw in a PC watercooling loop, even at lower speeds.

I think you're severely overestimating the amount of head pressure needed in a watercooling loop.

 

The DDC is not only loud but overheats and dies far more often, it is one of the most unreliable pumps unless you put a metal heatsink on it, and that only fixes the overheating issues not the horrible noise it's got.

As I said previously I am running two of them. They both have small heatsinks on them so I haven't run into an issue of them overheating even when touching them they are only slightly warm. That being said I have yet to have a DDC die and I have one of the old mcp355's still in use in another machine. As to noise, the only time they get loud is if you have air in the system and it gets stuck in the pumps or if they are vibrating on a surface. If you use a nice rubber pad and mount them on it... then they are pretty much inaudible. My system isn't loud by any means and the only time I would hear the pump is if it is at 100% and my fans are 100% off... which should never be the case. If the pump is ramping up to 100% then chances are I won't hear it over the fans anyways.

 

I also know that every 90 Degree turn adds pressure. Radiators add very little, but blocks are very restrictive. Also if you know how head pressure is rated it = amount of water it can pump vertically. So if you have a pump with 14" of head pressure it can pump water straight up 14" before it fails to move the water. So unless your case is laying on it's side and all of the tubing is on the same level... then you will have pressure in your system from the altitude differences in components.

 

So yes, it is actually very easy to add restrictions to loop and .85 isn't a hard level to hit in a average loop cooping a gpu and cpu. Like I said I have used D5's and still have one laying around... they are great pumps and I am not saying they aren't.

 

I am just not going to jump on the DDC are garbage bandwagon when they are clearly superior in most custom loops due to head pressure. I am not saying a d5 can't do well... they are quiet as previously stated, dependable, and cooled by the water moving through them... I just don't think they are the end all be all best choice.

 

One more thing to note is that once you hit about 2 gpm.. the benefits of adding more flow is mostly irrelevant. 2 gpm means that the water is moving fast enough it isn't sitting in a block too long raising that components temp.. whether you have 2 gpm or 10 gpm the water is spending the same amount of time in the blocks and radiators... it just does more circulations are higher rates.

 

Anyways when it comes to my pump ratings it would be:

 

DDC (mcp35x is the ddc I think is best of them all tbh)

D5 (all of them are pretty similar.)

SPC (don't buy)

 

DDC and D5 are all from the same manufacturer so the different brands just tack on their own little twists.

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

As I said previously I am running two of them. They both have small heatsinks on them so I haven't run into an issue of them overheating even when touching them they are only slightly warm. That being said I have yet to have a DDC die and I have one of the old mcp355's still in use in another machine. As to noise, the only time they get loud is if you have air in the system and it gets stuck in the pumps or if they are vibrating on a surface. If you use a nice rubber pad and mount them on it... then they are pretty much inaudible. My system isn't loud by any means and the only time I would hear the pump is if it is at 100% and my fans are 100% off... which should never be the case. If the pump is ramping up to 100% then chances are I won't hear it over the fans anyways.

 

You can easily find thousands of cases on the internet with failing DDCs.

They overheat and are badly designed, there's no question about that.

Here you can see just how often they die:

Even linus has said that he's had multiple DDCs die on him over the years, while his D5 from the first PC he built like 15 years ago is still working.

 

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

I also know that every 90 Degree turn adds pressure. Radiators add very little, but blocks are very restrictive. Also if you know how head pressure is rated it = amount of water it can pump vertically. So if you have a pump with 14" of head pressure it can pump water straight up 14" before it fails to move the water. So unless your case is laying on it's side and all of the tubing is on the same level... then you will have pressure in your system from the altitude differences in components.

Again,you will never reach the maximum heat pressure in a custom loop unless you're trying to do something stupid like 4 GPUs in series with four CPUs and 6 radiators.

Even two GPUs is a bad decision these days, SLI and CFX suck.

 

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

I am just not going to jump on the DDC are garbage bandwagon when they are clearly superior in most custom loops due to head pressure. I am not saying a d5 can't do well... they are quiet as previously stated, dependable, and cooled by the water moving through them... I just don't think they are the end all be all best choice.

If you think DDCs are anywhere close to quiet then the rest of your PC components are extremely loud.

Sorry but DDCs are not quiet.

None of them.

 

8 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

One more thing to note is that once you hit about 2 gpm.. the benefits of adding more flow is mostly irrelevant. 2 gpm means that the water is moving fast enough it isn't sitting in a block too long raising that components temp.. whether you have 2 gpm or 10 gpm the water is spending the same amount of time in the blocks and radiators... it just does more circulations are higher rates.

The point is that you run a D5 at a low speed, like 3/5, and get enough flow with extremely low noise.

There is no need to run it at more speed.

 

 

Maybe instead of relying on your own anecdotal evidence of "oh my DDC works fine" go online and take a look at the big picture.

Just because you use a DDC doesn't mean that it is good.

[AngryBeaver]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

 

You can easily find thousands of cases on the internet with failing DDCs.

They overheat and are badly designed, there's no question about that.

Here you can see just how often they die:

Even linus has said that he's had multiple DDCs die on him over the years, while his D5 from the first PC he built like 15 years ago is still working.

 

Again,you will never reach the maximum heat pressure in a custom loop unless you're trying to do something stupid like 4 GPUs in series with four CPUs and 6 radiators.

Even two GPUs is a bad decision these days, SLI and CFX suck.

 

If you think DDCs are anywhere close to quiet then the rest of your PC components are extremely loud.

Sorry but DDCs are not quiet.

None of them.

 

The point is that you run a D5 at a low speed, like 3/5, and get enough flow with extremely low noise.

There is no need to run it at more speed.

 

 

Maybe instead of relying on your own anecdotal evidence of "oh my DDC works fine" go online and take a look at the big picture.

Just because you use a DDC doesn't mean that it is good.

This isn't based purely on my evidence or even just my experience. If I google d5 failures I can find just as many cases of d5's dieing.

 

Also we aren't talking about about HIGH head pressure here. We are talking about average/moderate pressure. If you actually look at that charge you will see that in any loop with 2 blocks and a few bends or a decent vertical tube run... that you break the .85 pressure mark which is where the DDC moves more liquid than the D5.

 

Once again I am not knocking the D5. It is a GREAT pump, but is isn't by any means the best. Maximum flow does not make a pump the best, but a good balanced mix like you see the MCP35x. Also newer DDC like the mcp35x are much more quiet than the older models. 

 

How many people do you hear complaining about pump noise in the swiftech expandable AIO's? They all use a modified mcp35x (known as the Mcp30x) which is just a lower rpm version of it. The reason why is because this pump is mounted to the rad on those products, and since most rads are secured nicely they do not rattle and produce this noise you keep referring to.

[Enderman]

2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

This isn't based purely on my evidence or even just my experience. If I google d5 failures I can find just as many cases of d5's dieing.

Show me a picture of a D5 that caught on fire.

I'll show you 10 of DDCs catching on fire.

 

2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Also we aren't talking about about HIGH head pressure here. We are talking about average/moderate pressure. If you actually look at that charge you will see that in any loop with 2 blocks and a few bends or a decent vertical tube run... that you break the .85 pressure mark which is where the DDC moves more liquid than the D5.

It does not matter, how much flow or head pressure you have literally makes a fraction of a degree difference.

The D5 is better because you can run it slow for low noise and have great reliability and performance.

Even a DDC at 20% speed is obnoxiously loud.

 

2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Once again I am not knocking the D5. It is a GREAT pump, but is isn't by any means the best. Maximum flow does not make a pump the best, but a good balanced mix like you see the MCP35x. Also newer DDC like the mcp35x are much more quiet than the older models. 

I never said it was the best because it had a high flow rate.

In fact, the flow rate is almost unimportant.

The reliability and noise and ability to run at low speeds is.

 

2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

How many people do you hear complaining about pump noise in the swiftech expandable AIO's? 

Pretty much everyone.

Except for the people who have super loud GPUs and PSUs, then you can't hear the pump.

The swiftech expandable AIOs are crap, and they make even more noise than a regular DDC because of the noise transferred through the direct radiator mount with no vibration dampening.

 

 

Seriously, literally every high end builder (for example singularity computers or snef) will use D5s whenever possible.

The DDC is just a badly designed pump that is loud.

If you don't think it is loud then that's because you've never had a quiet computer with sub-20db fans or passive components.

[AngryBeaver]

DDC

 

 

D5

 

 

It really depends on what level the D5 is running at.. some settings produce more noise that higher ones due to the way it his a certain resonant frequency.

 

That being said they are VERY similar in sound levels across the board. They both are extremely loud if you make direct metal contact and both are reasonable good if you have a nice foam barrier.

 

Also if you want to look at first gen DDC and D5's then yes the DDC were really loud back then, but the D5 was almost much louder than it is now (about 6-8 DB higher). So if we look at current top end DDC which is why I keep mentioning the MCP35x, then the gap starts to disappear.

 

Also the reliability on the MCP35X is great.