Firefox survey puts AMD GPU marketshare ahead of Nvidia.

[AlwaysFSX]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This just in, Russian government survey puts the peoples preference for Putin at 87%.

I thought it'd be like 121%.

[KuronoXD]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Chrome is rather popular but people who would use Firefox today seem like more tech saavy types that one some feature or characteristic about Firefox that Chrome doesn't offers (even as simple as "It's not Google cause they're evil")

 

I'm mostly guessing here so don't take this as gospel I might be totally wrong but that's the feeling I get.

Well, I always have both installed in all of my PCs and laptops (that's why my curiosity) and I mostly use Firefox for productivity or serious stuff (or just browsing), while using Chrome for entertainment (Youtube, twitch, etc). I mostly stopped using Chrome after they phased out using the backspace key to go back one page.

 

From what I've seen, Firefox randomly starts spiking in CPU utilisation for a while and Chrome murders RAM, but I still prefer Firefox.

[Gikero]

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This just in, Russian government survey puts the peoples preference for Putin at 87%.

 

 

 

 

I think this survey is flawed. Everyone knows Putin is a 5/7, Comrade.

[RagnarokDel]

3 hours ago, RKRiley said:

This sound's great.

 

Until you realise only (approximately)around 10% of people using web browsers, use Firefox. So of the 10% of people who use Firefox, only 18% of however many that whole 10% is, use AMD.

 

 

That's a good enough sample size that it can extrapolated to everyone.

[LAwLz]

Something I don't think people take into consideration is the different demographics.

Steam's survey targets gamers, which usually runs discrete graphics cards which are somewhat modern. The Firefox survey looks at everyone who uses Firefox, where the vast majority runs on integrated graphics and just use whichever old computer they happen to have.

 

If anything, these results are bad for AMD. Nvidia only sells discrete graphics chips (not counting the handful of integrated ones) and they are still neck-and-neck with AMD when you take all their sales (including APUs) into account.

 

8 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

Also why do people take surveys? I don't understand why you would willingly waste your time for free to help a company make money

It's automatic. You get an option to opt-out during the first run of Firefox, but unless you uncheck that pre-checked box you will send in telemetry to Mozilla.

 

8 hours ago, KuronoXD said:

Indeed, but that is 10% of world population, which is still ahead of Steam's ~1% sample size. 

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/10/30/0-9-of-the-global-population-have-steam-accounts/

More than half of the world's population does not have Internet access so I wouldn't say it's "10% of world population". At best it's like 3%, but even then you're betting on 100% participation rate which is just unreasonable.

[KuronoXD]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Something I don't think people take into consideration is the different demographics.

Steam's survey targets gamers, which usually runs discrete graphics cards which are somewhat modern. The Firefox survey looks at everyone who uses Firefox, where the vast majority runs on integrated graphics and just use whichever old computer they happen to have.

 

If anything, these results are bad for AMD. Nvidia only sells discrete graphics chips (not counting the handful of integrated ones) and they are still neck-and-neck with AMD when you take all their sales (including APUs) into account.

 

It's automatic. You get an option to opt-out during the first run of Firefox, but unless you uncheck that pre-checked box you will send in telemetry to Mozilla.

 

More than half of the world's population does not have Internet access so I wouldn't say it's "10% of world population". At best it's like 3%, but even then you're betting on 100% participation rate which is just unreasonable.

Read the article first, the obvious difference in demographics is addressed there, but then that's what makes the results interesting.

 

The same argument you make for lack of access to internet is applied to the Steam survey as well, so by this logic divide Steam's 1% by the same amount to get 0.3%, so that makes the results at least comparable (and this was like the first reply the thread had).

 

[KuronoXD]

9 hours ago, KuronoXD said:

Indeed, but that is 10% of world population, which is still ahead of Steam's ~1% sample size. 

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/10/30/0-9-of-the-global-population-have-steam-accounts/

 

EDIT: Apparently people need the clarification that when a publication says "10% or 1% worldwide", it has already taken into account issues like no internet access or is simply just measuring the universe (statistics) that qualifies, especially applicable when both need the same variable (internet access) to measure. So let it be known henceforth.

 

[LAwLz]

19 minutes ago, KuronoXD said:

The same argument you make for lack of access to internet is applied to the Steam survey as well, so by this logic divide Steam's 1% by the same amount to get 0.3%, so that makes the results at least comparable (and this was like the first reply the thread had).

Ehm, no. You can't use the same argument.

About 1% of the world's population has Steam account, and that takes into consideration the fact that only about half the population doesn't have Internet access.

 

Firefox's user base was gathered by looking at how many users accessed websites. This means people without Internet access was not accounted for.

Steam's user base was gathered by looking at the amount of accounts that exists, and then comparing that to the world population. This takes people without Internet access into account.

[KuronoXD]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Ehm, no. You can't use the same argument.

About 1% of the world's population has Steam account, and that takes into consideration the fact that only about half the population doesn't have Internet access.

 

Firefox's user base was gathered by looking at how many users accessed websites. This means people without Internet access was not accounted for.

Steam's user base was gathered by looking at the amount of accounts that exists, and then comparing that to the world population. This takes people without Internet access into account.

Firefox's telemetry works per computer, or else every PC that shared multiple users would input redundant data, which would make the results unusable (I'm sure someone smart thought of that, MAC address is a thing).

Furthermore, this isn't about how many users go into the internet, it's about how many machines have which brand of GPU, and this number doesn't go up or down if more than one person uses them.

[Daiyus]

9 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

Just look at sales figures there is no need for surveys when the money can be followed, and the money says otherwise by a mountain

 

Also why do people take surveys? I don't understand why you would willingly waste your time for free to help a company make money

As someone who implements Quality (Business) Management Systems for a living I will almost always do surveys. Customer feedback is a massive requirement for any Quality (Business) Management System and is also one of the hardest to properly implement. Without it it's incredibly hard to gauge customer satisfaction and thus make decisions based on that data. Surveys aren't the only way of doing it but it is a good way to get direct-from-the-mouth feedback out of a customer which could raise something that inferred analysis of data cannot.

[JoostinOnline]

9 hours ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

To be fair, that's partially caused by the shoddy HDD that manufacturers put into them. This doesn't just affect AMD based laptops either. My sister's laptop even with an i5 5257U takes 1m 30s to boot up and then takes something like 30 seconds to open up chrome just because the HDD it has is always pinned at 100% (even after leaving it alone for 20 mins, after booting up). 

Agreed.  I just installed an SSD in a customer's laptop (with an AMD APU) a few hours ago.  It went from unbearably slow (opening the Start Menu took a long time, especially if there was another program) to being incredibly snappy.  A 5400RPM drive is already pretty slow (what almost every laptop has, both to keep noise down and to reduce cost), but I swear some of them are way worse than others.

[LAwLz]

54 minutes ago, KuronoXD said:

Firefox's telemetry works per computer, or else every PC that shared multiple users would input redundant data, which would make the results unusable (I'm sure someone smart thought of that, MAC address is a thing).

Furthermore, this isn't about how many users go into the internet, it's about how many machines have which brand of GPU, and this number doesn't go up or down if more than one person uses them.

Yes, and? I really don't see why you bring this up because it has nothing to do with the conversation.

You said that 10% of the world's population uses Firefox. That's wrong. About 10% of all Internet users use it. Big difference.

Then you said Steam's 1% figure didn't take into account people without Internet access, which is wrong because it does. If you look at the world population, and multiple it with 0,01 then you get the roughly the number of Steam accounts that exist.

 

That's all I wanted to point out.

[Mr.Meerkat]

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

I had a laptop with an AMD E2-1800 and a bloody awful HDD, even opening new tabs in chrome would make it hit 100% utilization. Put a 840 EVO in it, soo much faster... still shit slow though because E2-1800 lol. At least after that upgrade I didn't want to hulk smash it and throw it out of a moving car.

Reminds me of when I put my first ever SSD into my C2D laptop. Went from borderline unusable to being just as fast as my i5 3570K desktop that I built later (in terms of booting and opening applications, with 90%+ utilisation constantly).

 

9 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Not really-and I'm referring to after the laptops have booted not during. Every AMD APU based laptop that I've used has had an SSD that could at least saturate SATA II, and all of them have been sluggish-more so than my mum's current laptop with a 5400RPM HDD and i5-2540M. The damn things choke on 720p 60fps videos for crying out loud (talking about the A8 series BTW-the A6 and A4 series would be even worse).

Its a matter of perspective. I personally find my atom x5-z8300 (which are similar to A4 4xxxM APUs in terms of speed) tablet more than fast enough (with its 120/120MBps eMMC drive) and the A6 laptop I had for a month was perfectly adequate for my needs in a laptop so even if it can't stream 720@60, it doesn't bother me. 

[KuronoXD]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Yes, and? I really don't see why you bring this up because it has nothing to do with the conversation.

You said that 10% of the world's population uses Firefox. That's wrong. About 10% of all Internet users use it. Big difference.

Then you said Steam's 1% figure didn't take into account people without Internet access, which is wrong because it does. If you look at the world population, and multiple it with 0,01 then you get the roughly the number of Steam accounts that exist.

 

That's all I wanted to point out.

Bring what up? I've only been responding to what you say, which is what has nothing to do with the point of the article.

Yes, saying "population" instead of "users" was confusing; I mistakenly assumed that as we were talking about statistics anyone would have the knowledge that the term population is used to describe the set of things you are studying or measuring, I was wrong.

 

I didn't say that anything of the sort about Steam's numbers (you are welcome to quote me if otherwise), just that if you applied flawed reasoning to one data set, you should apply it to the other one as well, as they both measure the same thing with the same limitations.

[LAwLz]

26 minutes ago, KuronoXD said:

Yes, saying "population" instead of "users" was confusing; I mistakenly assumed that as we were talking about statistics anyone would have the knowledge that the term population is used to describe the set of things you are studying or measuring, I was wrong.

You didn't say "population", you said "world population". That means everyone in the world, not just Internet users. Don't try to push the blame onto others. You made a mistake.

 

26 minutes ago, KuronoXD said:

I didn't say that anything of the sort about Steam's numbers (you are welcome to quote me if otherwise), just that if you applied flawed reasoning to one data set, you should apply it to the other one as well, as they both measure the same thing with the same limitations.

Here is your post:

2 hours ago, KuronoXD said:

The same argument you make for lack of access to internet is applied to the Steam survey as well, so by this logic divide Steam's 1% by the same amount to get 0.3%, so that makes the results at least comparable (and this was like the first reply the thread had).

You tried to apply the "convert from world population to Internet users" method to Steam's 1% number, seemingly without realizing that the 1% number was in fact referring to the world population, not Internet users. 

The lack of Internet access does not apply to the Steam 1% number (again, you tried to argue that Steam had 0.3% of world population as users). It does however apply to Firefox's user numbers because those were derived from looking at the % of users who accessed some websites.

 

I was going to drop this because arguing over semantics is silly, but instead of just saying "oops I meant Internet users rather than world population", you went on to accusing others of being ignorant.

[KuronoXD]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

You didn't say "population", you said "world population". That means everyone in the world, not just Internet users. Don't try to push the blame onto others. You made a mistake.

 

Here is your post:

You tried to apply the "convert from world population to Internet users" method to Steam's 1% number, seemingly without realizing that the 1% number was in fact referring to the world population, not Internet users. 

The lack of Internet access does not apply to the Steam 1% number (again, you tried to argue that Steam had 0.3% of world population as users).

 

I was going to drop this because arguing over semantics is silly, but instead of just saying "oops I meant Internet users rather than world population", you went on to accusing others of being ignorant.

Hey, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. If you know it's a miscommunication over semantics, then just accept that you understood wrong and move on, especially if it's been explained to you over and over.

Again, your misunderstanding about the 10% doesn't change the fact that the percentage has taken into account the same variables as Steam (which is what I was referring to where you quoted me, not that Steam is wrong, as you mistakenly inferred); 10% of internet users and 1% of internet users. You keep arguing that because you understood wrong the 10%, it somehow stops being about internet users.

I've been using (and sometimes even pointing out that I'm doing so) statistics terms in other posts in this thread. If you don't pay attention to anything other than the selective posts you misunderstand, it's a matter of course that you end up arguing with incomplete information.

[minervx]

Of course more people have a laptop with AMD integrated graphics than an NVidia GTX card

[Polesh007]

I feel like Firefox and AMD user fall into the same category of not trying to follow the mainstream, looking for a more techie product, 'if you know you know' kind of thing

 

Although I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people with AMD hardware didn't know they had it or what it is, like in cheaper laptops etc.

[Prysin]

12 hours ago, KuronoXD said:

Apparently, even if only by a difference of around 1%, Firefox's hardware report says AMD GPUs are more widely used than Nvidia's. According to WCCFTECH: "Firefox hardware report places AMD at 15%, NVIDIA at 14% and Intel in the lead at 65%". 

 

Arguably, the discrepancy between this and the Steam report that puts Nvidia at around 80% could be attributed to target audience (which the article addresses as well), but between this and consoles, total AMD GPU use could be well of Nvidia's. It's a shame it doesn't translate to quarterly profit and the higher end market for AMD. 

 

I leave a link to the article for more information: https://wccftech.com/firefox-hardware-survey-puts-amd-ahead-of-nvidia-in-terms-of-gpu-market-share/

 

Firefox hardware report: https://hardware.metrics.mozilla.com/

Not really that surprising.

Steam HW survey can easily be cheated, and i would not at all be surprised by Nvidia being artificially over-represented in it.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, Polesh007 said:

I feel like Firefox and AMD user fall into the same category of not trying to follow the mainstream, looking for a more techie product, 'if you know you know' kind of thing

firefox was huge way before Chrome was a thing. Its old and thus has "mindshare"...

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

A 5400RPM drive is already pretty slow (what almost every laptop has, both to keep noise down and to reduce cost), but I swear some of them are way worse than others.

My cheap laptop had a 4200 RPM HDD in it, 5400 shockingly isn't the slowest they go. Even this shocked me, only found out when removing it.

[Dabombinable]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

My cheap laptop had a 4200 RPM HDD in it, 5400 shockingly isn't the slowest they go. Even this shocked me, only found out when removing it.

Those were supposed to have died out in the mid to late 90's.....

[KuronoXD]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Those were supposed to have died out in the mid to late 90's.....

Believe it or not, they still sell them new on Amazon! (it's the lowest they'll go, though)

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Those were supposed to have died out in the mid to late 90's.....

This is almost exactly what I got, the HDD spec is a straight up lie though. It says 5400 RPM but that is not what is printed on the actual thing and it doesn't feel like any other 5400 RPM HDD I've used before.

 

https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03513703

[Prysin]

Just now, leadeater said:

This is almost exactly what I got, the HDD spec is a straight up lie though. It says 5400 RPM but that is not what is printed on the actual thing and it doesn't feel like any other 5400 RPM HDD I've used before.

 

https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03513703

have you tried to hand crank it? may speed it up a bit