7900X reviewed!

[The Benjamins]

Just now, Deli said:

I want to see more reviews before drawing conclusion. It's odd adding two more cores will generate so much more heat. Sample variations???

I think it is going to suffer from what I will call TIM lottery, were you will have some chips run hotter or cooler depending on TIM.

[TahoeDust]

Just now, Deli said:

I want to see more reviews before drawing conclusion. It's odd adding two more cores will generate so much more heat. Sample variations???

Maybe.  He was at 1.22v @4.8GHz and said temps were 72*  He said when he got to 1.3v and 5.0GHz, temps were unmanageable. 

[tom_w141]

6 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

That's promising. That's what I have. 280mm AIO. I can live with low 70's at 4.8!

Constantly 70+ is way out of my comfort zone personally. I like a max of 60 for daily OC and I'm well below that on my 1700.

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

I think it is going to suffer from what I will call TIM lottery, were you will have some chips run hotter or cooler depending on TIM.

Exactly this ^ This is the reason why some 7700ks are a disaster and get hot AF at stock settings. At this price these CPUs should have been soldered like X99 no arguments, the consumer is certainly paying a premium price so should get premium product.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

If you don't need it that's great, but if you do, it's horrible.

It really depends on how much performance you need out of it though. If it doesn't matter beyond what Ryzen offers, then it's perfect for budget oriented purchases.

 

Just now, done12many2 said:

Chips like the 7700k will remain king for gaming for years to come.  Developers just aren't overly motivated to do otherwise.

From the expectations from standard consumers, absolutely. Going from raw performance at each aspect of gaming and (at least, the paper version of) end experience, higher clocking hexacores, with Haswell+ IPC, stand to be the new kings very soon. Just from the aspect that background tasks can be isolated to un/underutilized cores.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Constantly 70+ is way out of my comfort zone personally. I like a max of 60 for daily OC and I'm well below that on my 1700.

I don't like it when my GPUs are 60C, I went with water cooling so it won't happen no matter what crazy stuff I do.

 

[Deli]

2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

I think it is going to suffer from what I will call TIM lottery, were you will have some chips run hotter or cooler depending on TIM.

Interesting. I always thought some chips require higher voltage, that leads to higher temp.

 

So, how Intel assembles the IHS and applies TIM will significantly affect the temperature. I know that is always production tolerance. That kind of big temperature difference still surprise me.

[The Benjamins]

3 minutes ago, Deli said:

Interesting. I always thought some chips require higher voltage, that leads to higher temp.

 

So, how Intel assembles the IHS and applies TIM will significantly affect the temperature. I know that is always production tolerance. That kind of big temperature difference still surprise me.

That plays a role too.

 

it is just that it gets exaggerated when the parts put out more heat. 

for example the TIM may be able to transfer 150W of heat efficiency but when the heat is getting passed that like 200-250W (OC on 10c) its thermal transfer efficiency drops which would cause the big difference from 8c to 10c. also they do have issues with variance of application between CPUs, it could be as little as 5 mils (0.005 in) that can cause poor heat transfer.

For ref. CNC tolerance is usually 5 mils.

[goodtofufriday]

31 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Kinda getting bored of the AVX argument tbh. Fair play to anyone that actually utilises it but atm its just a feature people boast about and will never use.

Same. 

 

As an it admin, i dont know anyone that cared about avx outside of their servers. And even then its like 2 guys that actually have a need for it. 

 

For the sake of enthusiasts gaming platforms it really hardly matters. 

[done12many2]

26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

It really depends on how much performance you need out of it though. If it doesn't matter beyond what Ryzen offers, then it's perfect for budget oriented purchases.

 

Absolutely agree.  If you don't use Adobe products or encode with Handbrake using modern coding, the there is very little benefit short of several other applications.   The thing is, Skylake-X and Threadripper are aimed at us guys who are more likely to use it.  

 

Remember HEDT won't be bought by gamers mostly.  I think some people are starting to forget that.  

 

As an example of what AVX and lack thereof can look like.

 

Here is a stock 1600 (6 core / 12 thread) vs a stock 7700k (4 core / 8 thread).  Call me crazy, but I'd rather have the option then to not have it when it makes this much of a difference.  You'll see similar results if you try to use something like Handbrake to convert a movie using either H.264 or H.265 with the latter being even worse without AVX.  I convert movies all the time for my kids.  If there's one area I want to save a great deal of time, it's here.  

 

7700k with 4 cores.

 

 

1600 with 6 cores

 

 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

If you don't use Adobe products or encode with Handbrake using modern coding, the there is very little benefit short of several other applications.   The thing is, Skylake-X and Threadripper are aimed at us guys who are more likely to use it.

Again, those buying TR and 8C Ryzen and intend to use AVX are going to fall under one of two categories:

1) Those that don't do extensive research

2) Those that don't need to have the best AVX performance. This'll be smaller content creators just starting out, mostly.

 

3 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 I convert movies all the time for my kids.

Can you PM me your workflow for that, if it works with BluRays? I've been jumping between half assed temp solutions, because that's the extent of what I keep finding.

[miagisan]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Again, those buying TR and 8C Ryzen and intend to use AVX are going to fall under one of two categories:

1) Those that don't do extensive research

2) Those that don't need to have the best AVX performance. This'll be smaller content creators just starting out, mostly.

 

Can you PM me your workflow for that, if it works with BluRays? I've been jumping between half assed temp solutions, because that's the extent of what I keep finding.

MakeMKV and handbrake is all I use

[done12many2]

1 hour ago, miagisan said:

MakeMKV and handbrake is all I use

 

Does MakeMKV use AVX?  I imagine it would since you're making MKVs.  Nevermind, it just rips.  

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

Same. 

 

As an it admin, i dont know anyone that cared about avx outside of their servers. And even then its like 2 guys that actually have a need for it. 

 

For the sake of enthusiasts gaming platforms it really hardly matters. 

I work mostly with virtualization so I could give a damn about AVX either. Give more cores, give me ram, give me awesome I/O.

[done12many2]

Just now, leadeater said:

I work mostly with virtualization so I could give a damn about AVX either. Give more cores, give me ram, give me awesome I/O.

 

More cores definitely fixes most things.  lol

[miagisan]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

Does MakeMKV use AVX?  I imagine it would since you're making MKVs. 

No idea honestly. I just use it cause it works great. 

[Drak3]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

More cores definitely fixes most things.  lol

Even this bad Overwatch pun?

 

Y'know what, send me your 5960X. I'll test it for you.

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

Here is a stock 1600 (6 core / 12 thread) vs a stock 7700k (4 core / 8 thread).  Call me crazy, but I'd rather have the option then to not have it when it makes this much of a difference.  You'll see similar results if you try to use something like Handbrake to convert a movie using either H.264 or H.265 with the latter being even worse without AVX.  I convert movies all the time for my kids.  If there's one area I want to save a great deal of time, it's here.  

Isn't a 1700 rather close to a 7700k for that? And slightly cheaper?

[done12many2]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Even this bad Overwatch pun?

 

Too funny.  No, cores will not fix that game that I know of.  

 

Just now, Drak3 said:

Y'know what, send me your 5960X. I'll test it for you.

 

Very extended testing, right?

[Drak3]

Just now, done12many2 said:

No, cores will not fix that game that I know of.  

Well' I'm only asking about the pun.

 

Just now, done12many2 said:

Very extended testing, right?

No, just a short period of until the 18 core has a good sample size for average overclocks. Something like 10K minimum.

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Isn't a 1700 rather close to a 7700k for that? And slightly cheaper?

 

Great point.  A 1700 would probably match a stock 7700k in that type of workload.  The 4 extra cores should be enough to make up the difference.  It'll do it cheaper too.  I already have a 5960x that crushes both, so I never bothered thinking about that.  

 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Intel-Core-i9-7900X-10-core-Skylake-X-Processor-Review/Thread-Thread-Latency-and-

 

 

Inter-core latency is going to be a big topic once we get the 12c and above i9s and Threadripper.  (There's some arguments their Ryzen timings aren't quite right after it jumps the CCX, but we'll leave that aside for now.)  Lower gaming performance is going to result from this in a bunch of cases, though most of the Ryzen patching should help.

 

I'm curious how the 16c/18c hold up for latency, since that's the MCC die compared to the LCC die.

[leadeater]

Just now, done12many2 said:

Great point.  A 1700 would probably match a stock 7700k in that type of workload.  The 4 extra cores should be enough to make up the difference.  It'll do it cheaper too.  I already have a 5960x that crushes both, so I never bothered thinking about that.  

That's why I always do cost comparisons and look at benchmarks, it can be hard to filter through all the technical information and differences between architectures etc and totally miss the obvious in front of you.

 

Not that you were wrong or anything, I only thought of that since you brought it up. Did the math per core then multiplied by 8 and got a similar result then went to amazon for prices, no idea before hand where they sat.

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

That's why I always do cost comparisons and look at benchmarks, it can be hard to filter through all the technical information and differences between architectures etc and totally miss the obvious in front of you.

 

Not that you were wrong or anything, I only thought of that since you brought it up. Did the math per core then multiplied by 8 and got a similar result then went to amazon for prices, no idea before hand where they sat.

 

I know you look at that stuff, but I'd be lying if I said I thought too much about it.  In my simple head it's more of a can I afford it or not decision.  

 

I just try to build the single fastest thing I can.  My 5960x is on a platform that I'd very much like to update. I'm wanting the I/O and have become a big fan of NVMe.  I'm one of those guys who will pay for VROC even though NVMe RAID is still supported through the chipset.  Something about moving 10GB MKV files around like they are MP3s makes me happy on the inside.  

 

The new setup will get used for so many different things that I want it to be flexible in all.

 

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

I know you look at that stuff, but I'd be lying if I said I thought too much about it.  In my simple head it's more of a can I afford it or not decision.  

 

I just try to build the single fastest thing I can.  My 5960x is on a platform that I'd very much like to update. I'm wanting the I/O and have become a big fan of NVMe.  I'm one of those guys who will pay for VROC even though NVMe RAID is still supported through the chipset.  Something about moving 10GB MKV files around like they are MP3s makes me happy on the inside.  

 

The new setup will get used for so many different things that I want it to be flexible in all.

For stuff I buy for myself I am much the same, I even brought a brand new IBM x3500 M4 for myself and filled it with SSDs and then connected it to my workstation using dual 10Gb DAC.

 

My next upgrades I'm working on are also NVMe.