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Free Our Internet!

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Are you concerned by shrinking internet freedom/rights?  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you concerned?

    • Yes, a lot
      35
    • Yes, a little
      29
    • Unconcerned
      5
    • Less than unconcerned
      1
    • Not at all
      4
    • All the censorship!!!
      1

Posted
2 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

That might help but would it though? The US doesn't have a complete democracy as nothing would get done. We elect individuals who we think will represent what we want. The problem is all of them are old and most voters are old.

 

Full democracy doesn't work. You're correct, we elect representatives. 

About most voters being old.. There are A LOT of young people that are completely eligible to vote. Guess what they do on election days? Not vote. If young people actually voted (why I think compulsive voting is ALMOST reasonable) then things might get fixed at a rate more than zero.

I used to be quite active here.

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Posted
Just now, Raskolnikov said:

Lmao, the sources used. My sides. 

 

The Hill is passable, but it's an opinion piece.

 

http://freeourinternet.org/about-us/

 

Wow... Just wow. They're awful! They're just a bunch of conspiracy mags and rubbish tabloids. Still, at least they bothered to include anything.

Laptop: Asus GA502DU

RAM: 16GB DDR4 | CPU: Ryzen 3750H | GPU: GTX 1660ti

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Posted
1 minute ago, Kobathor said:

Full democracy doesn't work. You're correct, we elect representatives. 

About most voters being old.. There are A LOT of young people that are completely eligible to vote. Guess what they do on election days? Not vote. If young people actually voted (why I think compulsive voting is ALMOST reasonable) then things might get fixed at a rate more than zero.

I agree

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just as a reminder keep the politically centered talk to a minimum, I know it's a difficult and grey area in a topic like this but I don't see very much discussion around internet and a lot around politics and governments.

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2 minutes ago, N3v3r3nding_N3wb said:

I cannot recommend armed violence. Armed revolt is guaranteed to leave violent dissenters still loyal to the previous government, just ending in more violence. Armed revolt should only be used when absolutely necessary. You can't overthrow something violently without first defeating their ideas, and by that point, in a democracy, the government will eventually listen. Only when a non-democratic coup happens can I support armed revolt.

Well something drastic needs to happen

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
Just now, leadeater said:

Just as a reminder keep the politically centered talk to a minimum, I know it's a difficult and grey area in a topic like this but I don't see very much discussion around internet and a lot around politics and governments.

Yeah sorry about that. I think I started it. I can edit my comment to remove the government out of it.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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25 minutes ago, N3v3r3nding_N3wb said:

I don't keep as up to date with UK politics as US politics, but I'm fairly informed, and from what I've seen, both sides in the the UK support some kind of internet censorship or logging. Internet freedom, security, privacy, etc. sucks in most countries, but out of the Western countries, the UK is relatively piss poor.

Here in the UK, the "left" is generally the liberals and "for the people" type of politics, while the "right" is conservative and tends to favour businesses and people who are more well off. 

 

The state of the UK's censorship, privacy and security laws is the worst in the West if you ask me. Our current government is the most far "right" it has been in a long time, or perhaps ever. They've declared a war on pornography, of course, using the argument of "protect the children" (from that evil pornography, right?) and have already arbitrarily banned some ridiculous things from being produced in the UK (female ejaculation and face sitting, for example, is illegal to film and distribute in the UK) and new legislation being pushed in a bill called the Digital Economy Bill could effectively give them the power to block (at an ISP level) anything the government considers "adult" content. It's poised under the pretext of "protect children from pornography" but only mentions "adult" content, which basically applies to anything depending on how you choose to interpret "adult". 

 

When the EU ruled GCHQ's surveillance practices illegal and a violation of human rights, our government quickly pushed some more legislation under the table to make it legal again. There was a big scare from Edward Snowden's leaks in the US, but it's come to light that the UK has been doing much worse (at least, at a national level, not necessarily internationally). We're one of, if not the worst, police states (technically not a police state, but the government is using its power arbitrarily) in the West. The fact that our previous PM stated support for many of China's censorship policies is seriously concerning. Now we have Darth Sidious's sister as PM (Theresa May), who is even more right wing than Cameron was, it's even worse. First thing she did as PM was push through the Investigatory Powers Bill (dubbed the Snooper's Charter), which is a piece of legislation which basically gives the UK government a bunch of power to legally do things there were already doing illegally, as well as just generally making it much easier for the government to spy on our citizens. 

 

Political Opinions

 

 


We do have an election coming up next month which may give us a chance to rid ourselves of our extreme right government, but unfortunately the two real options we have are the Conservatives, who are just evil really or Labour, who are a complete mess right now. As much as I dislike Theresa May, I also can't vote for a leader without any backbone or solutions to any issues (Jeremy Corbyn). We're really in a shit position right now. We're also going to lose the protections we've had against the over-watching eye of the UK government by the EU's various human rights and surveillance and censorship laws. Excellent. 

 

I understand that you didn't want this to be a political thread, but really, internet censorship and privacy and politics are one and the same right now in the UK. As someone who depends on technology and the internet for a living, it's my main point of consideration when voting as well as not fucking myself over when I want to afford to buy a house, but the rest of the country has already done that for my generation anyway. 
 

 

 

Warning, political image. (also, StarWars)

 

 


IyYE65P.jpg

 

 

EDIT: I have edited my post to put political opinions and more political related topics in spoilers

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11 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

The legislation is worded as vaguely as possible for the exact reason you specified. The more vague it is, the more control they assume.

Lol.. We have elections for a reason, so we don't need to take our government by force.

Let me make your sentence less ludicrous - "If each went to their elections and voted for more competent representatives, things might change."

Well, it couldn't only be won by a small majority. It'd have to be such a sweeping, unilaterally supported change that the deep state couldn't possibly resist. This is shown in recent Trump developments. He's become more globalistic and has started to go back on some of his promises, something he did the opposite of at the beginning of his presidency.

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"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

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9 minutes ago, Raskolnikov said:

Lmao, the sources used. My sides. 

 

The Hill is passable, but it's an opinion piece.

 

http://freeourinternet.org/about-us/

I used a direct link to their website. It's the second one.

Royal Rumble: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/N3v3r3nding_N3wb/saved/#view=NR9ycf

 

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." -- Adolf Hitler
 

"I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught." -- Winston Churchill

 

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

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4 minutes ago, ForsakenLive said:

..SNIP..

Totally agree with what @Forsakensaid.

 

"Free" internet has different meanings around the world. Compare the spoiled western view of the world with those living with state controlled media (ie: Russia and China). They cannot have "free" until their government changes... However, we have a good thing going with TOR; but again, us spoiled bitches use it for bad things. There are people who are about making the internet a great place, but it's constantly over shadowed by the negative. Forsaken hit the nail on the head. Instead of using FB as an example, look at torrents? You want free internet? Freedom of speech, freedom of information access, yet don't want to pay a dime for it. Those greedy corporations have people who work for them, with families to support. Stealing movies, music, and other pirated content isn't "free" internet. But the choices we, the majority of the people make, the more we shape our own environment. Of course the government wants to limit activities that hurt other people and corporations. Intellectual property, personal property, etc... isn't supposed to be exploited and put up for free.

 

The internet is a very powerful tool, but if people cannot be trusted to use it properly, the only thing you can expect in return is restrictions.

 

With that said, I totally am against the control of information on the internet, within reason. Yes proprietary things shouldn't be free accessible. Government "secrets" and what not, ok not a big deal. Keep them. Child pornography and other socially and ethically immoral things, yes please stop hurting other people. But governments trying to restrict information, such as pornography (for religious ideology [ie: Florida]), other state media, or opinions/facts that are contrary to the government's views, is not a legitimate reason to restrict access for anything.

 

The internet helps to keep everyone connected, share ideas, thoughts, news, etc... But you have to face the facts, we live in a globalized world that runs based off economy. If there's a way to monetize things, it'll be done. The way you act on the internet shapes the way it grows. If you want "free" internet, you have to make it happen, not wait for it to emerge. The internet can truly be what we make of it.

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5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Just as a reminder keep the politically centered talk to a minimum, I know it's a difficult and grey area in a topic like this but I don't see very much discussion around internet and a lot around politics and governments.

Unfortunately, they're very much the same thing for some of us. Here in the UK, politics and the internet censorship go hand in hand, it's pretty much impossible to talk about one and not the other. We have legislation like the Digital Economy Bill and Investigatory Powers Bill, which are fundamentally political subjects but primarily pertain to issues such as internet censorship in the forms of ISP level blocks and mass surveillance. 

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It seems like they are more concerned by the "tech-left" than they are by actual censorship. 

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but remember kids, usually no one cares about your opinion on the internet.

linus sex tips

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Just now, Oshino Shinobu said:

Unfortunately, they're very much the same thing for some of us. Here in the UK, politics and the internet censorship go hand in hand, it's pretty much impossible to talk about one and not the other. We have legislation like the Digital Economy Bill and Investigatory Powers Bill, which are fundamentally political subjects but primarily pertain to issues such as internet censorship in the forms of ISP level blocks and mass surveillance. 

I agree, which is why I said it's rather grey. Just make sure everything is in reference towards internet/digital communications and freedoms and not solely comments about politics and governments. 

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1 minute ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

It seems like they are more concerned by the "tech-left" than they are by actual censorship. 

Well, it's one in the same. The censorship is often pointed towards right-leaning, conservative people, and "progressives" mostly get a free pass. That's why their message is so focused on the left.

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"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." -- Adolf Hitler
 

"I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught." -- Winston Churchill

 

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

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On 5/1/2017 at 10:22 PM, DeadEyePsycho said:

It seems like they are more concerned by the "tech-left" than they are by actual censorship. 

Look up "Computing Forever" on <removed by staff> or YouTube. He talks about this subject a lot.

Royal Rumble: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/N3v3r3nding_N3wb/saved/#view=NR9ycf

 

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." -- Adolf Hitler
 

"I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught." -- Winston Churchill

 

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

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27 minutes ago, Rangaman42 said:

Remember when the UK government wanted to block porn by blocking everything that looked like lots of skin? But it just blocked everything vaguely orange. These people are useless.

They had to make some amendments to some things they're trying to pass right now because it would essentially ISP level block every social media and image hosting site in the UK. Our government also doesn't seem to be aware that VPNs are a thing. What I am afraid of is when they start going after methods of avoiding blocks, such as VPNs. 

 

The US has the war on terror, we have the war on pornography. It's actually illegal to film and distribute pornography involving urine and saliva play, because the government didn't like that. 

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7 minutes ago, N3v3r3nding_N3wb said:

I used a direct link to their website. It's the second one.

I didn't see that in OP, just pointing out their ridiculous sourcing. Here as well: http://freeourinternet.org/category/news/

 

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Just now, Oshino Shinobu said:

They had to make some amendments to some things they're trying to pass right now because it would essentially ISP level block every social media and image hosting site in the UK. Our government also doesn't seem to be aware that VPNs are a thing. What I am afraid of is when they start going after methods of avoiding blocks, such as VPNs. 

 

They wouldn't block that hard to start with. They'd start on illegal stuff, child pornography and such. Then they go after the really extreme, out there stuff. The sort of stuff no one would reasonably want to defend. Then all your porn is gone, again no one wants to stand up and demand they keep their porn because that's embarrassing. Then it progresses further and further, until we're so used to various parts of the internet being blocked that when they come for certain news sites, claiming weird, vague reasons, we accept it. 

It has to be gradual, they need to ease people into the idea that internet access is carefully controlled by the state, but once it becomes accepted, they can do what they like.

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11 minutes ago, Rangaman42 said:

They wouldn't block that hard to start with. They'd start on illegal stuff, child pornography and such. Then they go after the really extreme, out there stuff. The sort of stuff no one would reasonably want to defend. Then all your porn is gone, again no one wants to stand up and demand they keep their porn because that's embarrassing. Then it progresses further and further, until we're so used to various parts of the internet being blocked that when they come for certain news sites, claiming weird, vague reasons, we accept it. 

It has to be gradual, they need to ease people into the idea that internet access is carefully controlled by the state, but once it becomes accepted, they can do what they like.

But they didn't start off with stuff that was really extreme. Things like child pornography is a given and is already blocked when it's found, as it should be. The first of their legal banning of pornography included: face sitting, fistng, female ejaculation, water sports and spanking. Hardly extreme if you ask me (or maybe I'm just freaky?). 

 

They did manage to get some opt-out pornography blocks implemented when you sign up for a new broadband connection with most major ISPs (which block a lot of non-pornographic content, as you'd expect). They definitely take advantage of the fact that people are embarrassed to stand up for the freedom(?) of pornography. 

 

It does worry me that we're heading towards South Korean (I'll just leave North Korea out of this example) type approaches to pornography, where it is just flat out illegal in any capacity. A student (I think student) got arrested in South Korea for translating a Japanese porn game into Korean, which is scary. (Google South Korea Arresting Players of Teaching Feeling. I can't link the article without breaking forum rules for NSFW stuff). 

 

I definitely agree that they'll start with a subject like pornography to pass ambiguous legislation which can be used later to block pretty much anything. It's a shame we don't have the obsession with freedom that the US does or it may be easier to prevent the blocks happening on topics people consider embarrassing. 

 

EDIT: I also feel like the older population don't quite understand how serious ambiguous legislation is when it comes to internet censorship. To most people, it only appears as legislation to block pornography from children, which is exactly how the government wants it to appear. 

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22 minutes ago, N3v3r3nding_N3wb said:

Well, it's one in the same. The censorship is often pointed towards right-leaning, conservative people, and "progressives" mostly get a free pass. That's why their message is so focused on the left.

 
 
 

My point was more about how they don't address on how they even want to fight it and the examples they give are pretty terrible.

  • They use a HuffPost Oped, about the case for banning hate speech, as opposing viewpoints. Hardly representative of the industry and not even an actual thing. 
  • They use an example from Germany, not even something remotely close to happening in the US. It's only used because Germany is primarily Left.
  • Here they use a Libertarian site that that just quotes three guys from one organization that happens to be leftist.
  • They basically state that municipally owned Wifi hotspots are somehow the tools of big government to turn the internet into a government owned utility despite their source only saying these hotspots are bad from a cost standpoint. There wasn't the slightest correlation.

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1 minute ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

My point was more about how they don't address on how they even want to fight it and the examples they give are pretty terrible.

  • They use a HuffPost Oped about the case for banning hate speech as opposing viewpoints. Hardly representative of the industry and not even an actual thing. 
  • They use an example from Germany, not even something remotely close to happening in the US. It's only used because Germany is primarily Left.
  • Here they use a Libertarian site that that just quotes three guys from one organization that happens to be leftist.
  • They basically state that municipally owned Wifi hotspots are somehow the tools of big government to turn the internet into a government own utility despite their source only saying these hotspots are bad from a cost standpoint. There wasn't the slightest correlation.

I mostly skipped their examples because I'm well-informed on the subject, but if those were their used examples, they definitely could've found way, way better ones.

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11 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

The way you act on the internet shapes the way it grows. If you want "free" internet, you have to make it happen, not wait for it to emerge. The internet can truly be what we make of it.

This is my point much better explained.

It's as simple as this. Imagine most consumers on their PCs suddenly decide to uninstall windows and go with some non-commercial Linux distro (let's say something like Clear Linux, it could be other). They would have to use the software that those OS support, which means that Adobe doesn't have a market leading platform, Ubisoft won't keep pushing things with their Game Client, and Microsoft won't be able to gather money from Office 365 subs.

Give it less than a Month and we would get the support of most games out there, all running with Vulkan and OpenGL, without tons of nonsense, fps locking and the need to install more game clients. We would see a much more competitive Office Suite, or even better, a huge investment into LibreOffice that would put it toe-to-toe which what the market is currently using. AMD and Nvidia would launch actual good drivers for Linux. And finally, all this movement would make the people demand openness and compatibility, which would drive the software and services demand into something a lot more in favor of the consumer.

This is the exact same for online services. What if everyone switches to DuckDuckGo instead of Google Search? Or everyone moves to ProtonMail instead of Gmail?  Or everyone leaves facebook for Diaspora or Minds? Suddenly the scene and markets change, the current digital economic practices would stop making sense. The guys at FreeOurInternet blame the companies and government, but isn't the majority of the population to blame? These companies aren't putting a gun to our heads to create a Facebook account or to install Windows, we do it because it's easy, it's convenient, and doesn't require much effort. You can't enter into someone else's house, use their comfy couch, and then complain about their house rules, while at the same time being completely free and able to walk out of their door anytime.

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54 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

I'm wondering if the "left" in US politics is different from the "left" here in the UK. For us, it's the "right" that are doing all the (arbitrary) censoring. 

 

 

Europe happens to be very liberal compared to the United States.

 

In America, Bernie Sanders, a Democratic Socialist, is considered very liberal in the United States, while in Europe, he would be considered a moderate. Our right winged party would be considered extremist in Europe.

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14 minutes ago, ForsakenLive said:

This is my point much better explained.

It's as simple as this. Imagine most consumers on their PCs suddenly decide to uninstall windows and go with some non-commercial Linux distro (let's say something like Clear Linux, it could be other). They would have to use the software that those OS support, which means that Adobe doesn't have a market leading platform, Ubisoft won't keep pushing things with their Game Client, and Microsoft won't be able to gather money from Office 365 subs.

Give it less than a Month and we would get the support of most games out there, all running with Vulkan and OpenGL, without tons of nonsense, fps locking and the need to install more game clients. We would see a much more competitive Office Suite, or even better, a huge investment into LibreOffice that would put it toe-to-toe which what the market is currently using. AMD and Nvidia would launch actual good drivers for Linux. And finally, all this movement would make the people demand openness and compatibility, which would drive the software and services demand into something a lot more in favor of the consumer.

This is the exact same for online services. What if everyone switches to DuckDuckGo instead of Google Search? Or everyone moves to ProtonMail instead of Gmail?  Or everyone leaves facebook for Diaspora or Minds? Suddenly the scene and markets change, the current digital economic practices would stop making sense. The guys at FreeOurInternet blame the companies and government, but isn't the majority of the population to blame? These companies aren't putting a gun to our heads to create a Facebook account or to install Windows, we do it because it's easy, it's convenient, and doesn't require much effort. You can't enter into someone else's house, use their comfy couch, and then complain about their house rules, while at the same time being completely free and able to walk out of their door anytime.

While I mostly agree, it's a bit of a case of those informed trying to protect those who are uninformed or unwilling to be informed. Those that know about it and have the power to change the situation (or at least try) are trying to change it for everyone for the better.

 

Grandma may not be informed on this subject, so she uses the fact-checking websites and gets her news from Facebook. This slants her viewpoint and makes her think that Trump is a sexist, racist pig. Well, it's like her grandson one day changing her news-gathering habits to something more neutral and teaching her about the MSM's political slant (one voice isn't going to change FB, so in my hypothetical scenario, this is easier and more likely). Now she's educated and knows facts, rather than just having a "listen and believe" mentality.

 

Going to your house illustration, it's like that person wanting to change those house rules to benefit not only themselves, but the children of the house, because the children are being locked inside, and just don't yet know it.

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