Thoughts on DRM

[NEO_STARK]

Hey guys just wanna know what you think about DRMs.

PC game piracy has always been a problem and anti tamper DRMs like DENUVO are doing a great job but hackers eventually crack the DRM and pirates enjoy the full game with a simple click.whereas a legitimate purchaser has to verify the legitimacy of his copy via internet connection... This happened to me yesterday I wanted to play just cause 3 and couldn't cause my internet connection was down (server maintenance) So I couldn't play the game that I legit purchased ?

I know piracy hurts the developer but it has never been proven that putting a anti-tamper DRM like DENUVO boosts the game sales either... 

Look at CD Projekt Red they make great games and don't need any DRM to break sales records !!! And at any point I'd like to buy games from digital distributer like GOG cause DRM free means I actually own that copy of the game. whereas DRM means I pay for license to play that game and not the actual game... 

What do you guys think ?

[UMxMarky94]

2 minutes ago, NEO_STARK said:

Hey guys just wanna know what you think about DRMs.

PC game piracy has always been a problem and anti tamper DRMs like DENUVO are doing a great job but hackers eventually crack the DRM and pirates enjoy the full game with a simple click.whereas a legitimate purchaser has to verify the legitimacy of his copy via internet connection... This happened to me yesterday I wanted to play just cause 3 and couldn't cause my internet connection was down (server maintenance) So I couldn't play the game that I legit purchased ?

I know piracy hurts the developer but it has never been proven that putting a anti-tamper DRM like DENUVO boosts the game sales either... 

Look at CD Projekt Red they make great games and don't need any DRM to break sales records !!! And at any point I'd like to buy games from digital distributer like GOG cause DRM free means I actually own that copy of the game. whereas DRM means I pay for license to play that game and not the actual game... 

What do you guys think ?

the problem lies with with cost and ease of access. some older games you can't get legit without shell out daft money (LoTR BFME 2 is hard to find now) or you get games like CoD or Battfield which you get piss all content or a buggy mess at launch and people think "screw that" when they charge £60.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, NEO_STARK said:

Hey guys just wanna know what you think about DRMs.

PC game piracy has always been a problem and anti tamper DRMs like DENUVO are doing a great job but hackers eventually crack the DRM and pirates enjoy the full game with a simple click.whereas a legitimate purchaser has to verify the legitimacy of his copy via internet connection... This happened to me yesterday I wanted to play just cause 3 and couldn't cause my internet connection was down (server maintenance) So I couldn't play the game that I legit purchased ?

I know piracy hurts the developer but it has never been proven that putting a anti-tamper DRM like DENUVO boosts the game sales either... 

Look at CD Projekt Red they make great games and don't need any DRM to break sales records !!! And at any point I'd like to buy games from digital distributer like GOG cause DRM free means I actually own that copy of the game. whereas DRM means I pay for license to play that game and not the actual game... 

What do you guys think ?

They approached it in the wrong way, that's all I can say.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, NEO_STARK said:

PC game piracy has always been a problem and anti tamper DRMs like DENUVO

It's sad to know that RE7 was cracked in 5 days after release. Denuvo needs a upgrade.

[Bwithnewcast]

I hate drm, i am for a free web where we dont get monitored. In my country the have blocked piratbay where i downloaded non pirated things.

[Praesi]

DRM's are useless, never hinder a pirate Version and only hurt real Customers. CDRed are a good Example that you dont need DRM. Just make a good Game and People will pay for it.

[comicsansms]

DRM is important, it shouldn't be important, but it is.

Ideally DRM would not exist, but it has to exist or a lot of people wouldn't buy anything.

 

Even if very well controlled DRM gets cracked like DENUVO, it wouldn't be cracked on launch day and it is still harder to actually unlock the game unlike just downloading a no-cd crack and slap GTA VC onto a flash drive to give to your friends.

 

I am all against piracy.

 

[TetraSky]

DRM only serve to delay the inevitable.

If someone doesn't want to pay full price (80$ in Canada these days...)for your game but still wants to play it on/around release, when the game is relevant, they will find a way.

Is there a way to rent games on PC now? Other than "cloud gaming" ?

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, UMxMarky94 said:

the problem lies with with cost and ease of access. some older games you can't get legit without shell out daft money (LoTR BFME 2 is hard to find now) or you get games like CoD or Battfield which you get piss all content or a buggy mess at launch and people think "screw that" when they charge £60.

Or $99 AUD for BF or COD without the launch day DLC/chopped out content (long story short, they are too expensive for what is delivered).

[Dabombinable]

40 minutes ago, Praesi said:

DRM's are useless, never hinder a pirate Version and only hurt real Customers. CDRed are a good Example that you dont need DRM. Just make a good Game and People will pay for it.

"But...but making a good game costs money" -EA dev before returning to the mothership.

[UMxMarky94]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Or $99 AUD for BF or COD without the launch day DLC/chopped out content (long story short, they are too expensive for what is delivered).

nail on the head, really how many indie games get pirated vs AAA ?  

[Space Reptile]

26 minutes ago, UMxMarky94 said:

nail on the head, really how many indie games get pirated vs AAA ?  

how often does piracy hurt the game significantly ?

if it were so Hollywood would have been dead w/ the camcorder years ago

 

[UMxMarky94]

3 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

how often does piracy hurt the game significantly ?

if it were so Hollywood would have been dead w/ the camcorder years ago

you might of missed my point,

it was a question as does anyone have any data for this as indie games generally are cheaper was as much content (or more in some cases) then some big AAA titles.

[daniielrp]

I don't think DRM helps at all. There is nothing to suggest it makes people buy the game legitimately, which is largely the problem overall - people who pirate are (loosely) either:

A. Never going to buy it anyway, either they don't have the money or just won't.

B. People who want to 'demo' the game, and then buy it if they like it.

The problem is they are targeting problem A, which is pointless as they would never have bought it anyway. In fact by targeting these people and hindering people who would buy it, they are only making the problem worse.

 

What they should be doing is fixing problem B. Unfortunately, in this era of rushed, buggy titles, blatant lies, stupid, stupid pre-order "bonus' content and the like, people are sceptical of paying a lot of money upfront for something that turns out to be a bag of shite.

 

As people said above, just follow CD Projekt Red's example of making a really good game, and people will pay for it.

[Space Reptile]

27 minutes ago, UMxMarky94 said:

you might of missed my point,

it was a question as does anyone have any data for this as indie games generally are cheaper was as much content (or more in some cases) then some big AAA titles.

some indie devs complained (I think the guy from FEZ made fuss about it)

[UMxMarky94]

Just now, Space Reptile said:

some indie devs complained (I think the guy from FEZ made fuss about it)

IIRC the FEZ dev had a meltdown.

however piracy affects AAA devs more but hurt indies more. So it is strange that indies have much less DRM compared to AAA 

[Space Reptile]

Just now, UMxMarky94 said:

IIRC the FEZ dev had a meltdown.

however piracy affects AAA devs more but hurt indies more. So it is strange that indies have much less DRM compared to AAA 

strange you say , but DRM costs a lot of money

[UMxMarky94]

Just now, Space Reptile said:

strange you say , but DRM costs a lot of money

but don't it cost more to developed then these loss from piracy. especially is you add on people not buying or wanting refunds when the DRM gets in the way of stuff ? (hello SimCity 2014)

[Guest]

At this moment, I am poor AF. I can't pay for tripple A titles. There is no money to be had. So if I would go Arrrr, they didn't loose any money. I wouldn't have bought it, because I can't.

 

However, I might talk about that game somewhere. I might tell people (with money) about the game, and about how awesome it is. Free promotion for the game. So in THIS example, it's good to pirate. (as long as I don't give Arrrr links to those people with money)

 

When I really like a game, and I would find it (used) for only a few euro as a hard copy, I would buy it. Here comes the kicker... Serial keys can be locked to an account, when buying used. Although I've got a legal disk, official serial and you name it, I can't play it. And I also once bought an old game, brand new. DRM validation was done online. Them servers were gone, and there wasn't a patch to be found. (made by the creators of the game) I had to go Arrrr to play this game.

 

I get DRM. It's not for me. But there should be a limit to how long an DRM is active. And there should be an more easy way to force release a serial, for when someone buys the hardcopy. (some people forget their serial number was even linked to their, for example, steam account)

[Space Reptile]

6 minutes ago, UMxMarky94 said:

but don't it cost more to developed then these loss from piracy. especially is you add on people not buying or wanting refunds when the DRM gets in the way of stuff ? (hello SimCity 2014)

how many games to you need to sell to break even for lets say a 50k licence If your game sells at 7.99 on steam , you need to sell ALOT of games just to break even , for many devs this is simply not worth it and they franky don't care , be a dick to pirates and your game gets hammered by the community (hello ubisoft and UPLAY)

[UMxMarky94]

1 minute ago, Space Reptile said:

how many games to you need to sell to break even for lets say a 50k licence If your game sells at 7.99 on steam , you need to sell ALOT of games just to break even , for many devs this is simply not worth it and they franky don't care , be a dick to pirates and your game gets hammered by the community (hello ubisoft and UPLAY)

so you could argue it's more imported if the games is worth how much you paid rather than if it had DRM or not as people have proved time and again it not IF it gets cracked its WHEN

[Space Reptile]

5 minutes ago, UMxMarky94 said:

so you could argue it's more imported if the games is worth how much you paid rather than if it had DRM or not as people have proved time and again it not IF it gets cracked its WHEN

basically , if people are willing to jump trough a lot of hoops to play your game,

might as well not be a dick and don't install a spikepit

in the end the consumer got the game and is likely to recommend it to people , that advertising is worth so much more to indies wich cant afford banner ads on every page , its outweighs the losses by pirates massively

 

usually I pirate because Demos don't exist anymore , if I enjoyed it for the first 2 hours I played it , ill buy it , if not ill just remove it

[UMxMarky94]

4 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

basically , if people are willing to jump trough a lot of hoops to play your game,

might as well not be a dick and don't install a spikepit

in the end the consumer got the game and is likely to recommend it to people , that advertising is worth so much more to indies wich cant afford banner ads on every page , its outweighs the losses by pirates massively

 

usually I pirate because Demos don't exist anymore , if I enjoyed it for the first 2 hours I played it , ill buy it , if not ill just remove it

understable. Christ what happen to demo's.... they can't they simply pick a mission and let you run that e.g. mass effect 2

[Space Reptile]

1 minute ago, UMxMarky94 said:

understable. Christ what happen to demo's.... they can't they simply pick a mission and let you run that e.g. mass effect 2

the last game w/ a demo that I played was DOOM , there are so many E3 demos , but no demos for the average mortal to DL on steam to make a decision

[UMxMarky94]

3 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

the last game w/ a demo that I played was DOOM , there are so many E3 demos , but no demos for the average mortal to DL on steam to make a decision

i know how can letting people play a little of your game not lead to possible sales.......................