Let's talk about the N B N.

[SammoFS]

So. Some people know what the NBN is right? (National Broadband Network) Well. They use MTM (Multi Technology Mix) Which is made up of FTTP,FTTN, Hybrid Fibre Co-axial,Fixed Wireless and Satellite. ALSO Recently announced, Fibre to the Distribution Point. I don't have the NBN yet but I am apparently going to get HFC (Hybrid Fibre Co-axial) within the 2nd half of this Year.

 

the NBN have announced DOCSIS 3.1 being released around June on the HFC network. Potentially making it up to 1GBPS speed capable. Although with all these recent complaints about how S**t the NBN is and how slower it is than what they ordered. I don't think If I'll get it. I may as well get Cable with Optus Which makes you pay up $80 for 30mbps down and 2mbps up. (Or 100mbps down and 2 mbps up for about $90-$100) 

 

Back when Labor was in charge they promised an ALL Fibre network. Then the Coalition (Liberal) came along and Stuffed it up by introducing MTM.

Labor's plan would've costed in between: 44 Billion and 73 billion Dollars (AU) and Malcolm Turnbull said his plan would cost $29.5 billion then it rose to $41 billion, and then last year to "up to" $56 billion.

 

 

Please correct me if I have forgotten anything critical here. Thought I'd just bring up a conversational topic. Thanks for readin'

[ddswh1pk0s]

You've covered pretty much everything. I personally have FTTP with Telstra and pay for 100/40Mbps and pretty much always get those speeds for $90 a month, beautiful.

 

I think something that a lot of people don't realise is that their ISP has to purchase bandwidth from NBNco, therefore, if your ISP has cheaped out on buying enough bandwidth then the customers of that ISP will experience slow down during the peak times. I would assume the bandwidth would have to be purchased per exchange where the ISP wishes to serve. If you have FTTP at your house and are with an ISP that has purchased enough bandwidth then your internet speed should never drop.

 

I think the problems with slow downs are occurring at the nodes where the fibre terminates into copper. FTTdP would almost certainly solve this as the dP only serves 4-8 houses.

 

Houses with FTTP are able to get up to 1Gbps speeds, but ISPs don't offer this yet as the demand simply isn't there. If the fibre termination boxes are upgraded then FTTP would even be capable of 10Gbps in the future.

 

Overall, I think in the long term all houses should be fitted with FTTP, as it seems very unlikely that anything will come along to replace fibre any time soon.

[SammoFS]

4 minutes ago, ddswh1pk0s said:

You've covered pretty much everything. I personally have FTTP with Telstra and pay for 100/40Mbps and pretty much always get those speeds for $90 a month, beautiful.

 

I think something that a lot of people don't realise is that their ISP has to purchase bandwidth from NBNco, therefore, if your ISP has cheaped out on buying enough bandwidth then the customers of that ISP will experience slow down during the peak times. I would assume the bandwidth would have to be purchased per exchange where the ISP wishes to serve. If you have FTTP at your house and are with an ISP that has purchased enough bandwidth then your internet speed should never drop.

 

I think the problems with slow downs are occurring at the nodes where the fibre terminates into copper. FTTdP would almost certainly solve this as the dP only serves 4-8 houses.

 

Houses with FTTP are able to get up to 1Gbps speeds, but ISPs don't offer this yet as the demand simply isn't there. If the fibre termination boxes are upgraded then FTTP would even be capable of 10Gbps in the future.

 

Overall, I think in the long term all houses should be fitted with FTTP, as it seems very unlikely that anything will come along to replace fibre any time soon.

Yeah. Whenever I get the nbn I plan on going to Optus. What about FTTH? I don't understand that very much. never really looked into it. I know Japan is covered in FTTH.

[JAKEBAB]

If your in the Optus HFC area I don't think you'll be getting any HFC it will most likely be FTTN or FTTdp.

[SammoFS]

1 minute ago, JAKEBAB said:

If your in the Optus HFC area I don't think you'll be getting any HFC it will most likely be FTTN or FTTdp.

I FORGOT TO MENTION: They shut off the three-year construction plan. But I saw what my suburb was getting. Which was FTTN. the only nearest suburb to me which was also getting HFC was getting FTTN aswell in 2018.

 

Honestly I think I know why they closed off access to it.

 

Running behind schedule :).

[JAKEBAB]

4 minutes ago, Rika Shiguma said:

I FORGOT TO MENTION: They shut off the three-year construction plan. But I saw what my suburb was getting. Which was FTTN. the only nearest suburb to me which was also getting HFC was getting FTTN aswell in 2018.

 

Honestly I think I know why they closed off access to it.

 

Running behind schedule :).

They stopped because the Optus HFC network was deemed unfit for purpose, Telstra HFC area's however will still go ahead iirc.

 

Source: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/a-lemon-nbn-backflips-abandons-plan-to-use-optus-cables-it-purchased-for-800-million-20160928-grquam.html

[SammoFS]

5 minutes ago, JAKEBAB said:

They stopped because the Optus HFC network was deemed unfit for purpose.

 

Source: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/a-lemon-nbn-backflips-abandons-plan-to-use-optus-cables-it-purchased-for-800-million-20160928-grquam.html

Hmm.. I see.. well shaite. I don't want slow speeds... FTTDP "maybe" suburbs were released. i didn't see my suburb but, could change.

[SammoFS]

(sorry for double post)

 

It seems that G.Fast/FTTDP Is VERY good.  I would love to have it

[JAKEBAB]

G.fast isnt even commercially available yet. Those time frames are bs and in the end you will still end up having to go with FTTH in the future anyway. FTTdp is better than FTTN but its still not anywhere near as good as FTTH.

[JAKEBAB]

.

[SammoFS]

2 minutes ago, JAKEBAB said:

G.fast isnt even commercially available yet. Those time frames are bs and in the end you will still end up having to go with FTTH in the future anyway. FTTdp is better than FTTN but its still not anywhere near as good as FTTH.

I would love for FTTH to come to my house but. They haven't "announced" that nor will i think they will... for at least a LONG time.

[JAKEBAB]

2 minutes ago, Rika Shiguma said:

I would love for FTTH to come to my house but. They haven't "announced" that nor will i think they will... for at least a LONG time.

It's pointless with this government anyway, they have CVC pricing set so high to counter the ROI because of shitty FTTN so you can't get any higher than 100mbps lol.

[SammoFS]

11 minutes ago, JAKEBAB said:

It's pointless with this government anyway, they have CVC pricing set so high to counter the ROI because of shitty FTTN so you can't get any higher than 100mbps lol.

Yep. Can we please get some bloke who knows what he's doing!

[Guest]

Meanwhile I just want Skymesh to rock up at mine. Stuck with Optus FTTP at the moment

 

https://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/fibre/plans.php

[SammoFS]

3 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

Meanwhile I just want Skymesh to rock up at mine. Stuck with Optus FTTP at the moment

 

https://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/fibre/plans.php

I cannot live without Unlimited. my family uses SO much

[JAKEBAB]

13 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

Meanwhile I just want Skymesh to rock up at mine. Stuck with Optus FTTP at the moment

 

https://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/fibre/plans.php

Eh I've hear at a lot of places their international transit is pretty bad due to the way Telstra distributes it's backhaul. Could have changed though since this was way back when I first got NBN.

[skywake]

I could complain about my NBN situation (i.e. on ADSL @ 8MBps and still waiting) but I know people in a worse spot than me. For example one person I know lives in a fairly new suburb. The house is about 10 years old, the suburb is still expanding. The house is new enough that they put down HFC but not new enough that FTTH was required by law. But the HFC is Telstra owned and priced accordingly, so they're on ADSL. They get 3Mbps. Because they're in that kind of middle space? Initially they were getting FTTH under the ALP plan and fairly early on. Then they dropped off the schedule. Then they were getting HFC. Now I'm not sure what they're getting. With 3Mbps ADSL I'd be worried if I was them if the gov changed its mind and decided to go with FTTN. Good luck with that.

 

So yeah, I'm not on the schedule and 8Mbps is kinda crappy. Especially these days with 50GB game downloads and multi GB patches. Fun. But at least I can watch Netflix in HD and at least I have a fair idea what I'll be getting. FTTN most likely and by the time it gets here we'll probably have another change of government anyways....

[SammoFS]

I'm suffering on 4mbps-5mbps on TPG ADSL2+. Phone lines are owned by Telstra (I think). Internet crapped itself 8 months ago. Called TPG. They told us to call Telstra. They came. "repaired" the phone lines. I should be getting 9mbps but i'm only getting 4-5mbps. I'm not happy with TPG/Telstra. I'm more impressed with Optus.

[SammoFS]

17 hours ago, JAKEBAB said:

G.fast isnt even commercially available yet. Those time frames are bs and in the end you will still end up having to go with FTTH in the future anyway. FTTdp is better than FTTN but its still not anywhere near as good as FTTH.

P.S These company's have announced G.Fast rollout.

BT Openreach Country: United Kingdom

 

Energia Communications Country: Japan

 

M-net Country: Germany

 

NetCologne Country: Germany

 

Swiscom Country: Switzerland

 

Telekom Austria Country: Austria

 

just take a look at this http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/Gigabit Networks - G Fast XG FAST.pdf 

[Donut417]

19 hours ago, Rika Shiguma said:

So. Some people know what the NBN is right? (National Broadband Network) Well. They use MTM (Multi Technology Mix) Which is made up of FTTP,FTTN, Hybrid Fibre Co-axial,Fixed Wireless and Satellite. ALSO Recently announced, Fibre to the Distribution Point. I don't have the NBN yet but I am apparently going to get HFC (Hybrid Fibre Co-axial) within the 2nd half of this Year.

 

the NBN have announced DOCSIS 3.1 being released around June on the HFC network. Potentially making it up to 1GBPS speed capable. Although with all these recent complaints about how S**t the NBN is and how slower it is than what they ordered. I don't think If I'll get it. I may as well get Cable with Optus Which makes you pay up $80 for 30mbps down and 2mbps up. (Or 100mbps down and 2 mbps up for about $90-$100) 

 

Back when Labor was in charge they promised an ALL Fibre network. Then the Coalition (Liberal) came along and Stuffed it up by introducing MTM.

Labor's plan would've costed in between: 44 Billion and 73 billion Dollars (AU) and Malcolm Turnbull said his plan would cost $29.5 billion then it rose to $41 billion, and then last year to "up to" $56 billion.

 

 

Please correct me if I have forgotten anything critical here. Thought I'd just bring up a conversational topic. Thanks for readin'

DOCSIS 3.1 is capable up to 10Gbps down and 2Gbps up. Thats the standard that Cable Labs has relased. Comcast here in the states has chosen to do 1Gbps down 35Mbps up. The issue with Docsis 3.1 is Docsis 2.0 modems cant exist on the network. So Comcast has spent the better part of the last year or so, EOLing Docsis 2.0 modems. Another issue they had is they have to run more fiber to the neighborhoods. I guess not every node is connected with fiber, some are nested with in other nodes. So now they have to fix that issue. On top of upgrading equipment as Docsis 3.1 can use frequencies up to 1.2GHZ I think. 

 

Even in the US Docsis 3.1 is out of reach for most people. Comcast only offers it one place in Michigan, and Im sure its only because of all the tech firms in that area. The funny thing is Cable Labs is going to be releasing a second revison of Docsis 3.1 that can do 10Gbps both down and up. So will cable providers offer that? Out of the options you have listed I would say you guys are better off with the Docsis 3.0 to 3.1 cable network done right, with fiber ran to each node. Or going full fiber. 

 

The biggest issue with Fiber is the cost. Verizon over a decade ago started offering Fiber to the Home. Not in my area, *Sad Face*. But soon their investors seen that it had a lower profit margin. Even less if you have to deploy in rural areas. Thats why when I hear claims of running fiber, you know damn well some ones going to be left out in the cold. I mean look at where Google provided fiber. In densely populated area. You should have know that what Labor promised was bull shit. Lucky for us, the Cable Industry has a viable alternative that I think most people will be fine with. Now lets see what the phone companies come up with cause DSL is dead, its been lifeless for years. 

[Blake]

19 hours ago, Rika Shiguma said:

(sorry for double post)

 

It seems that G.Fast/FTTDP Is VERY good.  I would love to have it

fyi, this picture is misleading. Trenching would be required either way. and you don't require ethernet wireing for the house, just need a RJ11 jumper where the old phone lines came into the house.

 

Plus it is ignoring that the copper needs to be replaced ever 6 months or so (I don't actually know the time frame for this but I know that ISPs never replace it, just use one of the other 10 they put in the ground when the building was erected - so they are just as bad).

[SammoFS]

2 minutes ago, Blake said:

fyi, this picture is misleading. Trenching would be required either way. and you don't require ethernet wireing for the house, just need a RJ11 jumper where the old phone lines came into the house.

 

Plus it is ignoring that the copper needs to be replaced ever 6 months or so (I don't actually know the time frame for this but I know that ISPs never replace it, just use one of the other 10 they put in the ground when the building was erected - so they are just as bad).

Like I said earlier. The Phone lines outside my house are operated by Telstra. They've never come to replace copper. just """FIX"""

[skywake]

15 minutes ago, Blake said:

fyi, this picture is misleading. Trenching would be required either way. and you don't require ethernet wireing for the house, just need a RJ11 jumper where the old phone lines came into the house.

Wow, I didn't notice that. I guess that explains the difference in cost then. I remember back when Labor first started pushing the idea of FTTH this was one of the ways its opponents used to argue against it. There was one article in the Australian which argued that in order to use FTTH households would have to spend $5000 in order to "fully take advantage" of FTTH. They never said what that $5000 would buy and I still can't work out how they ended up with that number but still. Any way to expand the cost.

 

Of course that sort of misleading information ignores the fact that you need network gear to take advantage of any fast connection. Regardless of what technology is used to deliver it to your house. And getting a professional to install Ethernet to every room in your house and get some decent APs? Yes that'll cost you ~$1000. But you don't *need* it. Including that in the cost is like including the cost of extra power points in the per-house cost of one network upgrade but not another.

[Blake]

the difference in cost to the end user is connecting one or both of the UNI-V ports to the existing wiring. 

 

sure there 'may' be trenching required, but in the 10+ places that I have overseen getting installed at work, not a single one required to be re-trenched, sure some of the pits needed to be cleared of mud, but the trenches where fine.

 

We didn't even spend $5000 at work to modernise each branch's network infrastructure. Just grab a ~$500 network cabinet, throw it on the wall, replace existing Ethernet runs with newer ethernet (about $1000), grab a cisco box that supports ethernet and 4g (approx $1000). and thats that, would do it cheaper if NBN had actually acceptable SLA's / their contractors weren't shit.

[skywake]

31 minutes ago, Blake said:

the difference in cost to the end user is connecting one or both of the UNI-V ports to the existing wiring. 

Definitely. For the average end user there wouldn't be any difference in cost on their side. At the end of the day what they get is a new modem which either is or isn't part of the install. From there it's all their own gear and it's the same gear regardless of what tech is used. The cost difference between technologies is entirely on the other end. To the end user all that happens is that after the stuff was done at the other end they move an Ethernet cable and change some router settings. That'd be it.

At the absolute most maybe they work out that they can't get the speeds they want on their old gear. At which point they could upgrade their gear to get those speeds. But really, for the average end user? You can get a combo unit with Gigabit ports that should be able to get pretty close to 100Mbps on WiFi for ~$100. And most ISPs bundle that sort of router in with their plan anyways.....