Sony PS4 bombshell: No MP3, external hard drive or DLNA support

[ionbasa]

so you want to pirate movies in order to stream it with dlna right? that is wat is making you fustrating abbout it blu-ray al the way baby! when 4K content is availeble, you will have to need to buy a blu-ray

Just for lols, I prefer my full disk images( or folder structures) of movies when I download movies. BT-Net anyone?

[Xsilent(X)]

Just for lols, I prefer my full disk images( or folder structures) of movies when I download movies. BT-Net anyone?

 

just plug a 4K tv in your pc then and don't buy the ps4

[ionbasa]

just plug a 4K tv in your pc then and don't buy the ps4

I already do that, sans the 4k TV. Maybe when 4k TVs don't cost an arm and a leg.

[LAwLz]

Not completely, it scaled using a custom Sony developed algorithm, meaning it can be re-scaled to sudo 4k, although at some quality degradation. Note that the scaling is done in hardware. I relate it to zipping a file, you compress using an algorithm to save space, and then decompress to return the file to its original state.

No... The movie is 1080p. You can upscale it and downscale it however you like, but the source is still 1080p. I can upscale my DVD movies to 4K on my computer if I want, but the source is still 480p.

Mastered in 4K bluray movies = 1080p, and that's it.

 

The 1080p movie on your bluray disc is compressed by the way. It uses H.264 for compression. It is then decompressed when you play it, which is why you need a decoder, and then after that scaling is done. After scaling it is not "sudo-4K", it is 4K. It's just that it's a 4K image with a 1080p source. Again, I can make a 4K video with a 240p source, and the video will be truly 4K, but it will not look anywhere near as good as if I used a 4K source.

I can do hardware accelerated scaling in my computer as well by the way. For example madVR is partially hardware accelerated, but hardware accelerated does not mean the same as high quality. You can do hardware accelerated scaling and make it look terrible, and vice versa.

[ionbasa]

No... The movie is 1080p. You can upscale it and downscale it however you like, but the source is still 1080p. I can upscale my DVD movies to 4K on my computer if I want, but the source is still 480p.

Mastered in 4K bluray movies = 1080p, and that's it.

From: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Ultra_HD/UHDTV/4K/High-Def_Retailing/Industry_Trends/Mastered_in_4K/Mastered_in_4K_and_the_Road_to_Ultra_HD/11781

 

"there are some claims that they even contain special upconversion protocols that will work in conjunction with Sony's new line of 4K Ultra HD displays. This proprietary algorithm will ostensibly provide the best possible upconverted picture. Of course, you need to have a Sony 4K display to take advantage of this and, for the time being, few of us are quite so lucky"

 

As to specifics this may or may not be true, someone would need to reverse engineer a Sony bluray player and dump the code off their hardware decoder.

[LAwLz]

From: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Ultra_HD/UHDTV/4K/High-Def_Retailing/Industry_Trends/Mastered_in_4K/Mastered_in_4K_and_the_Road_to_Ultra_HD/11781

 

"there are some claims that they even contain special upconversion protocols that will work in conjunction with Sony's new line of 4K Ultra HD displays. This proprietary algorithm will ostensibly provide the best possible upconverted picture. Of course, you need to have a Sony 4K display to take advantage of this and, for the time being, few of us are quite so lucky"

 

As to specifics this may or may not be true, someone would need to reverse engineer a Sony bluray player and dump the code off their hardware decoder.

Ehh... Did you read the article? It says the same thing I've been trying to tell you:

 

 

I think it's important to immediately make this one point very clear: These new discs from Sony are not actual 4K Blu-rays. I repeat, the films on these discs are still presented in 1080p resolution not 2160p, and they will play on all standard Blu-ray players.

A "mastered in 4K" bluray movie is in fact just 1080p. Again, playing these "mastered in 4K" movies on a 4K TV will literally be you, taking a 1080p movie, and then upscaling it to 4K. There is nothing else going on. Again, I can already do this with a DVD if I want to.

 

Not sure why you'd need to reverse engineer the decoder, because this is not related to the decoder. Decoder and rendering are two different things, and this is related to rendering.

 

 

By the way, about the whole "Sony might make their own DLNA!" idea, I think you should look up what DLNA is, and who made it.

[ionbasa]

Ehh... Did you read the article? It says the same thing I've been trying to tell you:

 

A "mastered in 4K" bluray movie is in fact just 1080p. Again, playing these "mastered in 4K" movies on a 4K TV will literally be you, taking a 1080p movie, and then upscaling it to 4K. There is nothing else going on. Again, I can already do this with a DVD if I want to.

 

Not sure why you'd need to reverse engineer the decoder, because this is not related to the decoder. Decoder and rendering are two different things, and this is related to rendering.

Yes I did read the article. I never disagree with you and said that the disks were in 4k, I said they they were scaled in 4k: 

 

Not completely, it scaled using a custom Sony developed algorithm, meaning it can be re-scaled to sudo 4k, although at some quality degradation. Note that the scaling is done in hardware. I relate it to zipping a file, you compress using an algorithm to save space, and then decompress to return the file to its original state.

Maybe just the way I worded it, but mathematically speaking, if I have a 4k source and then downscale it fit on a blu-ray in 1080p, you could then apply an inverse function to the source image on the disk and re-scale it to 4k. Which is why I called it "sudo 4k" in my post. It isn't actually 4k, just some trickery going on in the hardware.***

 

If anything we can agree to disagree if needed to.

 

Edit: ***Note that this is theoretical and rarely the case, although we can get close.

[Tocsin_786]

Literally everytime new info comes out about the new consoles they get worse and worse, I was honestly thinking about getting a ps4 because I have really good friends that only play consoles but I really don't see it happening anymore.

i recently changed my mind about getting the ps4 after watching this video

 

[LAwLz]

Maybe just the way I worded it, but mathematically speaking, if I have a 4k source and then downscale it fit on a blu-ray in 1080p, you could then apply an inverse function to the source image on the disk and re-scale it to 4k. Which is why I called it "sudo 4k" in my post. It isn't actually 4k, just some trickery going on in the hardware.***

No you can't. With lossless compression you can, but H.264 is lossy (well it can be lossless but the files on your blu-ray discs are not). When they take the 4K master and compresses it to 1080p, they are destroying some data, making it unrecoverable, in order to fit it on the disc. Think of it this way, a 128Kbps MP3 won't sound as good as the ~1000Kbps FLAC file you transcoded it from, because the data has been destroyed and is unrecoverable.

[ionbasa]

No you can't. With lossless compression you can, but H.264 is lossy (well it can be lossless but the files on your blu-ray discs are not). When they take the 4K master and compresses it to 1080p, they are destroying some data, making it unrecoverable, in order to fit it on the disc. Think of it this way, a 128Kbps MP3 won't sound as good as the ~1000Kbps FLAC file you transcoded it from, because the data has been destroyed and is unrecoverable.

Which is why I added my disclaimer to the post you quoted stating that: "this is theoretical and rarely the case, although we can get close." Yes you destroy data, but mathematically and theoretically you can recreate data even it is compressed." This can be done with "FFT", but with some issues: http://www.ele.uri.edu/~hansenj/projects/ele501/ELE501_project4.pdf

[ionbasa]

 

 

By the way, about the whole "Sony might make their own DLNA!" idea, I think you should look up what DLNA is, and who made it.

Please stop editing your posts, re post with what you have to say. If you looked up dlna you would know it is " non-profit collaborative trade organization" merely founded by Sony. So Sony could be evil and develop something even more proprietary and charge hefty fees for licensing.

[qwertywarrior]

  i already own a WDTV so it ok.

[ACatWithThumbs]

But I thought Sony said that they would support these already...at least with external HDDs they did.

 

This is a stupid move. 

They don't need external HDD support because you can change the internal wich is the important one.

Because "next gen" games are all between 30-50GB and its only 500GB big so after 10-15 Games the HDD is full.

So its smart to buy right away a 1-3Tb HDD.

But the MP3 thing is just **** really the Ps3 has MP3 support and I thought this Gen is going in Mulitmedia direction. "yeah for sure" :rolleyes:  

This is the worst Console Gen ever.

No MP3 my ps1 and Ps2 and ps3 can do that.

And Multiplayer fees.

 

[Xsilent(X)]

i recently changed my mind about getting the ps4 after watching this video

 

 

ghosts will run on 1080P on ps4 and drm on ps4 no.

[LAwLz]

Which is why I added my disclaimer to the post you quoted stating that: "this is theoretical and rarely the case, although we can get close." Yes you destroy data, but mathematically and theoretically you can recreate data even it is compressed." This can be done with "FFT", but with some issues: http://www.ele.uri.edu/~hansenj/projects/ele501/ELE501_project4.pdf

No, it is impossible to recreate data from a lossy codec such as H.264 at >0 RF. In a lossless compression such as FLAC you can recreate all the data.

Think of it this way:

This is the source: 1.1111111111

This is lossless compression: 1.1<10>   //(1<10> = 1 repeated 10 times)

This is lossy compression: 1.11111

 

You can never, ever get the original 1.1111111111 back from the lossy source. That's how lossy compression works, such as what is being used on Blu-ray movies. Mathematically speaking, and theoretically speaking, you can NEVER recreate the data that was lost during the compression.

I suggest you do a bit of research on video encoding/decoding and scaling.

[ionbasa]

No, it is impossible to recreate data from a lossy codec such as H.264 at >0 RF. In a lossless compression such as FLAC you can recreate all the data.

Think of it this way:

This is the source: 1.1111111111

This is lossless compression: 1.1<10>   //(1<10> = 1 repeated 10 times)

This is lossy compression: 1.11111

 

You can never, ever get the original 1.1111111111 back from the lossy source. That's how lossy compression works, such as what is being used on Blu-ray movies. Mathematically speaking, and theoretically speaking, you can NEVER recreate the data that was lost during the compression.

I suggest you do a bit of research on video encoding/decoding and scaling.

You didn't read the article I posted, you can, although with some error using Fast Fourier Transform. I never said it would be perfect, or exactly the source quality although it would extremely close. I know in practicality it never works in practice, such as with video, but it is technically possible. I suggest looking up data compression and re-compression using FFT.

 

EDIT:

Also I feel as we are arguing over nothing. I know that given H.264 that there will be loss. But I am trying to show you there are ways around that using other compression/decompression methods.

[yurihellsing]

Question: Is this a purely software thing or is it some hardware that's not being included?

[Tocsin_786]

ghosts will run on 1080P on ps4 and drm on ps4 no.

yea there is no DRM in ps4 and im having a hard time to belive that 1080p stuff. alot of games (except killzone and some native PS4 games) run at 1600x900

[SirReallySam]

I'll still getting a PS4, but it's kind of dick move from Sony to wait till 15 days before the launch to drop this kind of news.

yeah...

[ForsakenLive]

We knew this from the beggining. MS screwed things at the presentation of the XBone, but it was obvious that Sony was also lame, they just hyped the market by bringing up their opponent's flaws.

And all the bad things that would come with the XBone at launch, like the expensive subscriptions and stuff, are also going to be present in the PS4, but after a year or 2 of its release.

[brownninja97]

You can play mp3 files once you download then from a usb that you have, im surprised that wasnt noted down, it was in a ps4 stream a short while  back.

[Gunzkewl]

You can play mp3 files once you download then from a usb that you have, im surprised that wasnt noted down, it was in a ps4 stream a short while  back.

You cant

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/395661158205501440

[brownninja97]

You cant

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/395661158205501440

I wonder why it was available at the start but not now, i bet its a problem with the OS, its a shame for those that are affected however it doesnt affect me as im not likely to get a ps4 anytime soon due to money

[Gunzkewl]

I wonder why it was available at the start but not now, i bet its a problem with the OS, its a shame for those that are affected however it doesnt affect me as im not likely to get a ps4 anytime soon due to money

I think because Sony want to encourage(force) us to listen to tunes thought Music Unlimited subscription app.  

[Vitalius]

We knew this from the beggining. MS screwed things at the presentation of the XBone, but it was obvious that Sony was also lame, they just hyped the market by bringing up their opponent's flaws. And all the bad things that would come with the XBone at launch, like the expensive subscriptions and stuff, are also going to be present in the PS4, but after a year or 2 of its release.

TBH, I'm tired of people saying the subscriptions are expensive for PS+. 

I paid $50 for 1 year.

I have $100+ of free games after 3 months.

... I don't even need to buy games. I get them for free. If I don't touch PS+, if I don't even play online, or use any other feature it offers, I have already gotten back double my money. 

I'm just saying.