Liberal vs. Conservative

[Speedyv]

9 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

my point was that it is possible to contest an election. Throwing away that right would be stupid when voter fraud has and does very much exist. I have witnessed it this election.

I'd like to hear about what you have been witnessing. Voter fraud is statistically proven to be insignificant and ineffective. 

 

[DutchTexan]

9 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

Could I have that in the form of a coherent sentence please?

 

Are you aware that Donald Trump himself has two trials coming up -- one for fraud, and another for allegedly raping a 13 year old? You're so gung-ho on "guilty until proven innocent" for Clinton, it seems odd that you're so quiet that your own candidate's legal difficulties right now.

 

I paint Donald Trump as a thread to democracy because he is. He's a fascist extremist. Why do you think the Republican Party has largely abandoned him?

I'll pray for you. You can only understand from your level of perception. I'm sure you only find what you look for. 

 

The American people support him. The Establishment and media from both sides, do not support him. Must be a huge threat to democracy...

[DutchTexan]

1 minute ago, Speedyv said:

I'd like to hear about what you have been witnessing. Voter fraud is statistically proven to be insignificant and ineffective. 

 

If it exists it exist. Obama talked about it in 2008. When I voted early a lady in the room scream, "It flipped my vote?!" In Texas there have been a bunch of reports of machines flipping votes, just like I heard and saw when I was voting early. A petition was made and signed hundreds of thousands of times. Now we vote on paper.

[Speedyv]

Just now, DutchTexan said:

I'll pray for you.

And there we go. People want complete freedom but also want religion entwined in their politics.... 

[othertomperson]

Just now, DutchTexan said:

I'll pray for you. You can only understand from your level of perception. I'm sure you only find what you look for. 

 

The American people support him. The Establishment and media from both sides, do not support him. Must be a huge threat to democracy...

If Trump supporters could listen to a rational argument they wouldn't be Trump supports. Or religious, for that matter.

[Atmos]

4 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

...they want the proletariat to own and control the means of production and you think that's "fucking disgusting"?

 

Marxism is pretty workable within a capitalist society tbh, all it would take is for workers to also be shareholders in the companies they work for. In other words, these companies would be Co-Operatives.

No what I think is disgusting is the completely enthusiastic manner in which these people are willing to throw away a person's individual rights if it suits the in-crowd.

 

Marxism and communism always fail, and always will fail. The only country to be successful, if you can barely call it that, is china with their heavily adapted form of communism. And even that can barely be considered communism, it's more just a crony run dictatorship oppressing its people. 

Its no coincidence that the best example of a working communism, china, is also one of the worst countries in the world to live in. It doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work. Humans do not function in a way that works within communism or marxism, and that's just that. As far as theoretical and ideological standpoints go its great idea fodder, but that's all it ever will be. It is not a viable form of government, period.

[DutchTexan]

7 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

...they want the proletariat to own and control the means of production and you think that's "fucking disgusting"?

 

Marxism is pretty workable within a capitalist society tbh, all it would take is for workers to also be shareholders in the companies they work for. In other words, these companies would be Co-Operatives.

See. That is a threat to our nation. This is exactly the problem; thinking this can work and is a good idea is a MAJOR PROBLEM.

[othertomperson]

Just now, DutchTexan said:

See. That is a threat to our nation. This is exactly the problem; thinking this can work and is a good idea is a MAJOR PROBLEM.

...people owning shares is a major problem? Do you hate Capitalism or something? Are you some kind of COMMIE?

[DutchTexan]

1 minute ago, othertomperson said:

If Trump supporters could listen to a rational argument they wouldn't be Trump supports. Or religious, for that matter.

Now you want me to abandon religion, becasue you think that is the right thing. How open-minded of you!

[DutchTexan]

3 minutes ago, Atmos said:

No what I think is disgusting is the completely enthusiastic manner in which these people are willing to throw away a person's individual rights if it suits the in-crowd.

 

Marxism and communism always fail, and always will fail. The only country to be successful, if you can barely call it that, is china with their heavily adapted form of communism. And even that can barely be considered communism, it's more just a crony run dictatorship oppressing its people. 

Its no coincidence that the best example of a working communism, china, is also one of the worst countries in the world to live in. It doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work. Humans do not function in a way that works within communism or marxism, and that's just that. As far as theoretical and ideological standpoints go its great idea fodder, but that's all it ever will be. It is not a viable form of government, period.

Thank you. If only @othertomperson could take his/her own advice and be open to entertaining ideas that he/she does not agree with. Shame

[othertomperson]

4 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

Now you want me to abandon religion, becasue you think that is the right thing. How open-minded of you!

Actually I was saying that it's a shame that you are unable to think for yourself, which is actually the complete opposite of telling you to think what I think.

 

6 minutes ago, Atmos said:

No what I think is disgusting is the completely enthusiastic manner in which these people are willing to throw away a person's individual rights if it suits the in-crowd.

 

Marxism and communism always fail, and always will fail. The only country to be successful, if you can barely call it that, is china with their heavily adapted form of communism. And even that can barely be considered communism, it's more just a crony run dictatorship oppressing its people. 

Its no coincidence that the best example of a working communism, china, is also one of the worst countries in the world to live in. It doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work. Humans do not function in a way that works within communism or marxism, and that's just that. As far as theoretical and ideological standpoints go its great idea fodder, but that's all it ever will be. It is not a viable form of government, period.

You don't actually know what "Marxism" means, do you? In fact I doubt you could even name a single Communist or Socialist country. In case the hint was lost on you, China is not actually a Communist country.

[DutchTexan]

3 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

...people owning shares is a major problem? Do you hate Capitalism or something? Are you some kind of COMMIE?

"Marxism is pretty workable" 

 

No. Just no. 

 

[Speedyv]

10 minutes ago, Atmos said:

No what I think is disgusting is the completely enthusiastic manner in which these people are willing to throw away a person's individual rights if it suits the in-crowd.

 

Marxism and communism always fail, and always will fail. The only country to be successful, if you can barely call it that, is china with their heavily adapted form of communism. And even that can barely be considered communism, it's more just a crony run dictatorship oppressing its people. 

Its no coincidence that the best example of a working communism, china, is also one of the worst countries in the world to live in. It doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work. Humans do not function in a way that works within communism or marxism, and that's just that. As far as theoretical and ideological standpoints go its great idea fodder, but that's all it ever will be. It is not a viable form of government, period.

You know what really fails? Supply side economics.

[othertomperson]

Just now, DutchTexan said:

"Marxism is pretty workable" 

 

No. Just no. 

 

I'm sorry if you have trouble reading more than four words at a time, but I did go on to briefly give an example of how.

[DutchTexan]

5 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

Actually I was saying that it's a shame that you are unable to think for yourself, which is actually the complete opposite of telling you to think what I think.

 

You don't actually know what "Marxism" means, do you? In fact I doubt you could even name a single Communist or Socialist country. In case the hint was lost on you, China is not actually a Communist country.

Dude, I think you should just stop. You really think Communism is a good thing?

 

How original, tell me I don't know how to think for myself. Good job, your arguments are sound.

[Mooshi]

Eh...I was expecting the video to be bad, but not this cringe inducing. I'm a racial minority in the US and had 0 issue getting identification. Seriously wtf? I wonder if I'm more of a minority (hurr hurr) being in favor of voting ID laws to prevent fraud to omg keep voting accountable. 

[DutchTexan]

1 minute ago, Mooshi said:

Eh...I was expecting the video to be bad, but not this cringe inducing. I'm a racial minority in the US and had 0 issue getting identification. Seriously wtf? I wonder if I'm more of a minority (hurr hurr) being in favor of voting ID laws to prevent fraud to omg keep voting accountable. 

Voter fraud is the goal, no doubt

[othertomperson]

3 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

Dude, I think you should just stop. You really think Communism is a good thing?

 

How original, tell me I don't know how to think for myself. Good job, your arguments are sound.

I think you should read a book. One that isn't just Cold War propaganda, and isn't the bible.

 

If you're going to join in a tirade about Marxism, at the very least you should spend a couple of minutes on Wikipedia finding out what it means because you obviously haven't a clue. Same goes for @Atmos

[Atmos]

18 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

Actually I was saying that it's a shame that you are unable to think for yourself, which is actually the complete opposite of telling you to think what I think.

 

You don't actually know what "Marxism" means, do you? In fact I doubt you could even name a single Communist or Socialist country. In case the hint was lost on you, China is not actually a Communist country.

1. China is communist. The party controls all aspects of government within the country. The fact that the controlling party within the country is literally "The Communist Party of China" says more than enough. If you think its anything but communist, then you're the one sadly mistaken.

2. Marxism is an ecnomic theory based on the ideas of Karl Marx, and to a lesser Friedrich Engels. its core philosophy is promoting a socialist, and eventually communist state by giving control of the economy to the working class. Private companies do not exist under a marxist country. 

3. Communism is heavily based upon marxist principles, and is as many more learned that myself teach, is the natural progression of marxism once it becomes the primary driving factor of a state.

 

Communism's fundamental ideals come straight from marxism. You could argue marxism is simply a critique of capitalism, in its purest form. However, you stop being a "critique" when you implement such radical and flawed ideas into a society. 

 

Its once again no coincidence that communism has produced the worst countries on earth to date, where as modified capitalism has produced the super powers of the world, and combined with minor aspects of socialist ideals produces the best countries on earth to live in.

 

-EDIT-

Surprise surprise. I know what I'm talking about, and am more than willing to call bullshit on people. I'm not an edgy highschool cuck who likes to spit raging comments online without the slightest idea of what I'm actually saying. I'm an early twenty year old, married college student working my way through a major in marine bio with a minor in computer science, and who's taken many, many classes on human history, political science, and art history.

You can learn a lot from a societies art and architecture. You can learn how the society felt as a whole by simply looking at the ideals they put into architecture, and how their art is portrayed. I actually wrote an english thesis on how architecture displays a specific culture's attitudes from its construction, and how the elements play into its design.

[DutchTexan]

1 minute ago, othertomperson said:

I think you should read a book. One that isn't just Cold War propaganda, and isn't the bible.

 

If you're going to join in a tirade about Marxism, at the very least you should spend a couple of minutes on Wikipedia finding out what it means because you obviously haven't a clue.

And telling me I don't read is proving your point? I'm actually reading a book by Einsteins favorite philosopher, Immanuel Kant. Critique of Pure Reason is probably a little to heavy for you, though

 

[DutchTexan]

1 minute ago, Atmos said:

1. China is communist. The party controls all aspects of government within the country. The fact that the controlling party within the country is literally "The Communist Party of China" says more than enough. If you think its anything but communist, then you're the one sadly mistaken.

2. Marxism is an ecnomic theory based on the ideas of Karl Marx, and to a lesser Friedrich Engels. its core philosophy is promoting a socialist, and eventually communist state by giving control of the economy to the working class. Private companies do not exist under a marxist country. 

3. Communism is heavily based upon marxist principles, and is as many more learned that myself teach, is the natural progression of marxism once it becomes the primary driving factor of a state.

 

Communism's fundamental ideals come straight from marxism. You could argue marxism is simply a critique of capitalism, in its purest form. However, you stop being a "critique" when you implement such radical and flawed ideas into a society. 

 

Its once again no coincidence that communism has produced the worst countries on earth to date, where as modified capitalism has produced the super powers of the world, and combined with minor aspects of socialist ideals produces the best countries on earth to live in.

@othertomperson how are you going to spin that?

[Mooshi]

4 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

Voter fraud is the goal, no doubt

It legitimately bothers me when people casually throw around the racism card for things that are not racist. 

[DutchTexan]

1 minute ago, Mooshi said:

It legitimately bothers me when people casually throw around the racism card for things that are not racist. 

Without emotions, politicians would not have any control the people

[Lewellyn]

4 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

@othertomperson how are you going to spin that?

By pointing out that private enterprise exists in China, and that just because the ruling party calls itself "communist" does not make it so...

[othertomperson]

11 minutes ago, Atmos said:

1. China is communist. The party controls all aspects of government within the country. The fact that the controlling party within the country is literally "The Communist Party of China" says more than enough. If you think its anything but communist, then you're the one sadly mistaken.

2. Marxism is an ecnomic theory based on the ideas of Karl Marx, and to a lesser Friedrich Engels. its core philosophy is promoting a socialist, and eventually communist state by giving control of the economy to the working class. Private companies do not exist under a marxist country. 

3. Communism is heavily based upon marxist principles, and is as many more learned that myself teach, is the natural progression of marxism once it becomes the primary driving factor of a state.

 

Communism's fundamental ideals come straight from marxism. You could argue marxism is simply a critique of capitalism, in its purest form. However, you stop being a "critique" when you implement such radical and flawed ideas into a society. 

 

Its once again no coincidence that communism has produced the worst countries on earth to date, where as modified capitalism has produced the super powers of the world, and combined with minor aspects of socialist ideals produces the best countries on earth to live in.

 

-EDIT-

Surprise surprise. I know what I'm talking about, and am more than willing to call bullshit on people. I'm not an edgy highschool cuck who likes to spit raging comments online without the slightest idea of what I'm actually saying. I'm an early twenty year old, married college student working my way through a major in marine bio with a minor in computer science, and who's taken many, many classes on human history, political science, and art history.

You can learn a lot from a societies art and architecture. You can learn how the society felt as a whole by simply looking at the ideals they put into architecture, and how their art is portrayed. I actually wrote an english thesis on how architecture displays a specific culture's attitudes from its construction, and how the elements play into its design.

So China is Communist because its one dictatorial party -- a group of people who are no workers, not owned by workers, in no way accountable to workers -- says that they are Communist, and this is enough for you? If I called myself a Fairy Godmother that would automatically make it so?

 

You have automatically assumed that The State and the people who live in it are synonymous. Marxism does not mean the state owns anything, but rather the people. In other words, it goes back to what I was talking about in which the employees of a company were themselves that company's shareholders, so that they ultimately own, guide and profit from their own labour. In that sense it wouldn't be a "private company", it would be a publicly traded company.

 

Communism has not produced "the worst" countries. In fact I'd go so far as to say that it hasn't produced any countries yet.

 

Socialism has, however. Socialism has produced countries like Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland. In other words, countries which are above the US in nearly every list apart from "child poverty" and "military spending".

 

You married while you were still in school and you've looked at a few buildings. That doesn't mean that you know anything like what you think you do. And you use the word "cuck" unironically lmfao amazing