Please help bust audiophile myths

[Addison Kwong]

So I recently dived into the audio world where many good products and snake oil are mixed together, making opinions from people hard to trust, I'd love if you guys could answer/solidify my take on high-end audio equipment.

Questions:
1. Do tube amps provide warmer sound indefinitely (thus solid state amps are more accurate)?

2. Does op-amp rolling make a difference to overall sound quality?
3. Do cables make a difference to the sound of the headphones?

4. Are $1000+ headphones indefinitely better than $200 ones?

 

 

 

Your opinions:

1. On extremely expensive headphones (Are they technically better despite ppls' different tastes for music?) (Would more people like them in general when compared to ones that cost a fraction of these?)

2. On extremely expensive dacs and amps (Couple thousand bucks)(ARE THEY BSs us, or do they "let you rediscover your music")

3. Audiofile(heh pun) fidelity (What are the usages of high-def audio files when compared to CD quality files e.g. 24 bit 192 kHz VS 16 bit 48kHz in music production?) (Can you even hear the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit, 48kHz and 192kHz?)

 

Would so love to hear you guys' opinions, pls enlighten me so I know to make a smart purchase (currently thinking of buying the Sennheiser HD 650s with a SMSL m3 dac amp for around 500 bucks total)

[MaxBunny]

22 minutes ago, Addison Kwong said:

snip

Audiophiles are mostly parrots. Pick up the ones you like and be happy.

[iShad]

I'm not an audiophile but I do have audiophile-like gears (th900,focal elear,hp-a8,64 a12), so I'll try to answer from my own experience.

 

1. Not always, at least not very noticeable, but I've only tried bottlehead crack and wa7 and thought it was pretty damn similar to solid state amps. I swear if people see tubes they just assume it's warm sounding sometimes, even though the difference is very minimal.

2. I don't understand the question, rolling just means trying out different op amp.

3. Hah, no.

4. It's better, but don't expect it to be 5x better than $200. Diminishing return hits hard after $300, imo.

 

Opinion:

1. I think so, as long as it has the sound signature people like.

2. No clue, my amp/dac is only $800 when I bought it and the ones I have tried were $1k or less. I don't think it's worth it compared to buying headphones, but I guess if you're already spending thousands on headphones there's no harm going all out.

3. I hear no difference above 320kbps mp3 so that's my go to format for my music collection, it's all about the mastering from there on to me.

 

Hd650 is a good headphones, but $500 is kinda expensive even with the m3. It often goes on sale for $300-ish and you have $200 leftover for modi/magni. I know people with kilobucks headphones that downgrade to that setup and seems pretty happy with it.

[SSL]

1. Not all tube amps are warm (some are) e.g. most Schiit tube amps are very linear.
2. Op-amp rolling can change the sound; unless you have EXCELLENT knowledge of what you are doing, it will REDUCE quality.
3. Try it and find out yourself if you care enough to even ask the question.
4. No, but this is the wrong sort of question to ask. Or think about.

 

1. Again, do not get hung up on price. Judge the headphone. Let your ears be the guide.
2. Some are BS, some are not.
3. High bit-depth technically improves accuracy of the recorded signal. This may or may not be useful depending on the recording. High sample rate moves aliasing distortion out of the audible range and allows for slower filter roll-off. Recording and mastering quality have orders of magnitude more effect and should be your primary concern when searching for "good" music.

 

Bonus: Beware of audiophile nervosa. Blowing cash on crazy audio gear can be fun, but your questions so far have the whiff of someone who is primarily concerned with pricey gear and the promise of better sound with each new purchase. The good news is that you're interested in the HD 650 which is an excellent headphone.

 

My advice is to get the HD650 and Schiit Vali 2 or Magni 2 Uber. Skip the chi-fi crap.

[porina]

I've not personally heard tube amps myself but one thing I did note when researching them for possible purchase was that tubes have a very finite life and will need replacing, like a blown light bulb. If they change much over that life I don't know.

 

The other questions could be lumped together generally as "can you do things to make it better?" where the short answer would be, yes. But the more useful question also hinted at is "is the difference significant" and that is much harder to answer. Kinda like the bottleneck arguments elsewhere in this forum. You can improve parts, but if they're not the limiting part it might not do much for you.

 

It is the Sennheiser HD600's I tried at work which started me on the road to better 'phones. I loved the sound, but to be honest when comparing it to where I work's earlier gaming headsets, the difference wasn't that big. It was there for sure, but not as radical. I'm not involved in the gaming headset side so haven't paid particular attention to them, but suffice to say when they get mentioned elsewhere in these forums they tend to get brushed aside for better known brands.

 

Also don't underestimate the wearing comfort. I find the Sennheisers clamp too tightly for longer period use, whereas my AKGs are much better.

[SSL]

10 minutes ago, porina said:

I've not personally heard tube amps myself but one thing I did note when researching them for possible purchase was that tubes have a very finite life and will need replacing, like a blown light bulb. If they change much over that life I don't know.

 

Tubes last for years.

[frunze]

37 minutes ago, Addison Kwong said:

So I recently dived into the audio world where many good products and snake oil are mixed together, making opinions from people hard to trust, I'd love if you guys could answer/solidify my take on high-end audio equipment.

Questions:
1. Do tube amps provide warmer sound indefinitely (thus solid state amps are more accurate)?

2. Does op-amp rolling make a difference do overall sound quality?
3. Do cables make a difference to the sound of the headphones?

4. Are $1000+ headphones indefinitely better than $200 ones?

 

 

 

Your opinions:

1. On extremely expensive headphones (Are they technically better despite ppls' different tastes for music?) (Would more people like them in general when compared to ones that cost a fraction of these?)

2. On extremely expensive dacs and amps (Couple thousand bucks)(ARE THEY BSs us, or do they "let you rediscover your music")

3. Audiofile(heh pun) fidelity (What are the usages of high-def audio files when compared to CD quality files e.g. 24 bit 192 kHz VS 16 bit 48kHz in music production?) (Can you even hear the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit, 48kHz and 192kHz?)

 

Would so love to hear you guys' opinions, pls enlighten me so I know to make a smart purchase (currently thinking of buying the Sennheiser HD 650s with a SMSL m3 dac amp for around 500 bucks total)

Answer:
1-2 only true when you're messing around with a very-very old audio devices (older than 90's). Recent Headphones & Speakers are made with better solders, more accurate circuit, much more advanced audio driver, better magnet, and oftenly the audiophile component manufacturers do some rigorous testing to their component. Even today's daily gadgets & software have a capability to deliver an accurate audio signal, with or without external AMP's.

3. Yes. But the overall output quality isn't always distinguishable. As you know, audio are delivered by an electrical signal over the cable, so the choice of electrical conductor metal inside the cable would result in the overall efficiency. And as we know, noble metal like gold and silver have a better conducting capability than a mere copper alloy. When choosing a gold or silver-core cable, it would result in a smaller electrical resistance, thus resulting in a better signal, and less noise (ignore the external disruption like a electromagnetic noise from another electrical component, etc). That also applied when you want to choose between insulated or non-insulated cable, sometimes insulated cable tend to deliver a better signal. But a better signal conductor wouldn't result in a much improvement if the signal source (ex: computer / smartphone) and the output driver (ex: headphone / speaker) have a low quality hardware.

4. Well. $1000 headphones, plugged to a dirty connector with rusty circuit, then I wouldn't surprised if the output are crap. On the other hand, even a decent  sub $200 headphones, plugged to a good device, with a decent signal processor (even a eq software would work), it would result in a much more pleasant output. But if the other variables are the same, then the $1000 headphones got over 80% chances to deliver a much better sound than $200 one. 


In my opinion:
1. No. Because several expensive headphones sometimes just sells gimmick, when actually they utilize the same inner components with their cheaper counterparts. This is why I recommend to pick a proven brand / manufacturers that tend to spend their money in the research & development phase, rather than spending money on a brand that spends their money in the marketing line (endorsing artist, ad campaign with BS marketing gimmick, etc.)

2. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The final audio output quality are dependent on the other components too.

3. For the bitrate part, as far as my experiences go, when a audio file have a higher bitrate, it would have a higher chances to sound better than the lower counterpart. But that doesn't apply for the sampling rate, because sometimes higher sampling rate can ruin your overall listening experience http://productionadvice.co.uk/high-sample-rates-make-your-music-sound-worse/

Well, if you're not so sure with buying all components in one purchase, I would suggest to buy the parts one-by-one. First, start to buy the Sennheiser without the DAC. Try to listen to it first, and if you could, try to plug to several devices, and try several eq too. Then if you feel that you still need more, you could buy the DAC, trying more expensive cable, etc. But if you confident enough to buy all in one go, then just go for it 

[cragger89]

When a valve is implemented properly in an amplifier (or any source), you won't be able to hear it. The valve "warmth" is just distortion. IF you like this, there is nothing wrong with that at all, but I hate it when the valve lovers blast a solid state amplifier when it is doing it's primary job better than one with a lot of distortion. It's not better, it is different. Taste is different for all people.

 

To me, again, like valves, when using the correct op-amp, you won't get "better" performance. You might get a different sound you prefer, but again, this usually is distortion.

 

Cables make a "difference", but not to the point where I think a £200 cable will be better than a £20. You can get cables which have strange capacitance ratings, these will sound difference. Tone control done in the cable is fine, but needlessly expensive in my opinion when software EQ is infinitely more customisable.

 

Literally everything is down to taste. I have DT770 Pros which cost me £70, I prefer them over my friends Sennheisher HD695s. I can't say they are better in terms of spec, I just prefer the sound of the DTs. I see little point in ignoring what I prefer just because the Senns cost more and might be more "fashionable" - if I found more expensive phones which sounded the same as the DT770s, I'd stick with the DT770s.

 

Just get listening to different products at stores or borrow from friends and find out what sound you enjoy. Audio nirvana doesn't need to cost the earth.

[porina]

2 hours ago, SSL said:

Tubes last for years.

I don't recall the exact number but they were typically given as so many hundreds or thousands of hours... so how long in practice would depend on how much you use it. Are they "all or nothing" though? As in, work, or not work. Or do they gradually degrade in some way over time?

 

I never did buy one, but this might trigger me to start looking again...

[SSL]

3 hours ago, porina said:

I don't recall the exact number but they were typically given as so many hundreds or thousands of hours... so how long in practice would depend on how much you use it. Are they "all or nothing" though? As in, work, or not work. Or do they gradually degrade in some way over time?

 

I never did buy one, but this might trigger me to start looking again...

They trail off once they near the end of their useful life. As long as you avoid ridiculous expensive tubes, it isn't that bad.

[carsonwen]

Tube amps generally do sound warmer. As for accuracy, Solid State of comparable grade will almost always be better in a literal sense. Yet it is for this very reason that tube amps posses a sound quality that many people prefer.

 

As an audiophile who is mainly into high end Custom IEMs, I can say that cables DO make a difference. People who say it does not have just not experienced it. It isn't a minor difference I am talking about, in some cases it can be a drastic difference that changes the overall sound presentation significantly. But it isn't always about resistance, when you are dealing with an AC signal with changing frequencies, there are many factors to consider. It comes down to choosing a cable that sounds good with the equipment you are using. Sound signature is personal preference, and therefore so is cables.