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Net Neutrality wins, again: AT&T vows to take it to the Supreme Court

CommandMan7
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Today, the rigid net neutrality rules passed last year were upheld for the third time in a 2-1 vote, this time in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. Many net neutrality advocates are correctly calling this a "slam dunk win" and a "victory for consumers". Those opposed, notably AT&T and Verizon, have vowed to continue the fight. AT&T legal counsel David McAtee has vowed to continue, stating

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“We have always expected this issue to be decided by the Supreme Court, and we look forward to participating in that appeal,”

 

 

Personal opinion: This is very good news, but not entirely unexpected. I think that although pro net neutrality has the clear advantage, it's not out of the woods yet. I am desparately hoping for the Supreme Court to accept to hear this case, solely so that they can put the final nail in the lid of any dispute. A positive Supreme Court ruling would be an amazing result, as their decisions set a rigid precedent over all lower courts and influence many other legal institutions worldwide. 

 

Sources:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/14/the-fcc-just-won-a-sweeping-victory-on-net-neutrality-in-federal-court/

 

Full 185 page court opinion:

https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/3F95E49183E6F8AF85257FD200505A3A/$file/15-1063-1619173.pdf

 

 

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I wouldn't be so confident about SCOTUS siding with net neutrality, they tend to side with companies like AT&T and Verizon.

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1 hour ago, Centurius said:

I wouldn't be so confident about SCOTUS siding with net neutrality, they tend to side with companies like AT&T and Verizon.

That's just a correlation. In this case, specifically, the ISP's are arguing that Internet Service is an "Information service" rather than a "Telecommunications service" and therefore cannot be subject to Title II, which is what grants the FCC the authority to impose the new rules. As Arstechnica puts it,

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Judges were not persuaded by industry arguments that Internet service is unambiguously an "information service" rather than a "telecommunications service" subject to stricter regulation. The industry argument ignores that the statutory definition of information service says that "such services are provided 'via telecommunications,'" the judges wrote.

 

I'm pretty sure that it's obvious Internet service is a telecommunications service, especially given all the examples that back this up. In the early days of the internet, it was delivered using Dial-Up phone lines, which is most certainly a telecommunications service. It should be a very clear choice for SCOTUS given that sort of obvious information.

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The problem is not that they won't rule in favor of net neutrality, which I believe they will. The problem is that the the Supreme Court is one member short right now and iirc unless the full court hears the case it doesn't set precedent that is legally binding on lower courts in future cases. 

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11 minutes ago, IG-88 said:

The problem is not that they won't rule in favor of net neutrality, which I believe they will. The problem is that the the Supreme Court is one member short right now and iirc unless the full court hears the case it doesn't set precedent that is legally binding on lower courts in future cases. 

That's not correct:

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/feb/14/supreme-court-vote-eight-justices-deadlock-nomination-scalia-obama

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With an eight-justice court, a majority decision requires a 5-3 vote. If the supreme court is deadlocked 4-4, the lower court’s decision in the case is upheld but it does not create a legal precedent.

As you can see, only if the Supreme court is deadlocked at 4-4, does the lower court's decision hold, yet no precedence is set.

 

If a 5-3 majority ruling is made, that is legally binding, and sets precedence just like any other SCOTUS hearing.

 

Keep in mind that even with a full 9-panel SCOTUS, they have 8-member hearings all the time, since members often have to recuse themselves for one reason or another, such as personal involvement or bias or conflict of interest, etc.

 

Also, 9-members is not a magic number. The size of the SCOTUS has varied throughout the year from 7 to 10 members as the "full" panel. As long as the decision is majority, then it doesn't matter how many members were on the panel.

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1 hour ago, IG-88 said:

The problem is not that they won't rule in favor of net neutrality, which I believe they will. The problem is that the the Supreme Court is one member short right now and iirc unless the full court hears the case it doesn't set precedent that is legally binding on lower courts in future cases. 

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Yeah like this will do anything. Net neutrality is just an idea. I still get throttled to christ

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

Whatever happens, this won't matter as Congress is already sticking its overy-corrupt nose into this business.

 

Whatever happens, congress will end up cutting the FCC's balls off during the presidential election, when no one is looking.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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Posted

Of course the lawyer is like "Yeah were taking this to the supreme court!". Cause AT&T is paying him up the ass to do this so he's probably sitting there like "I am going to rack in the money by telling these idiots that we can win this thing and keep it going" xD

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Posted

but if you read the OP carefully...

 

why would you want Supreme Court to make a positive ruling - if AT&T with Verizon appeal, that means positive ruling would be in favor of anti-net neutrality?

#hitlerdidnothingwrong

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23 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

Yeah like this will do anything. Net neutrality is just an idea. I still get throttled to christ

I was being throttled, but after an angry call at 2 on the night of GTA V release when I had to download 70GB in a go, they stopped

btw, I got the first 20% or so of the GTA V in an hour and a half, the rest of it I got in about an hour after the call, lol - haven't been throttled ever since

CPU: Intel i7 5820K @ 4.20 GHz | Motherboard: MSI X99S SLI PLUS | RAM: Corsair LPX 16GB DDR4 @ 2666MHz | GPU: Sapphire R9 Fury (x2 CrossFire)
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20 minutes ago, DXMember said:

I was being throttled, but after an angry call at 2 on the night of GTA V release when I had to download 70GB in a go, they stopped

btw, I got the first 20% or so of the GTA V in an hour and a half, the rest of it I got in about an hour after the call, lol - haven't been throttled ever since

Yeah what do I say then. Hey stop throttling me and they will say you have no proof, shut my internet off then I am really done

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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31 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Yeah what do I say then. Hey stop throttling me and they will say you have no proof, shut my internet off then I am really done

umm I had a pretty cool network utilization and throughput graph to show them

it's quite easy to prove that you're being throttled

 

start the conversation like this - I'm paying you X.XX of moneyz, what do you think my UP/DOWN speeds should be?

if they state the number that is in your contract and you're not observing the speed, then tell them the speed you observe.

if they tell you a different number than that's in your contract then correct them.

do capture screenshots of buffering youtube videos, flat network utilizations with periodic dips and international speed test results 

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51 minutes ago, DXMember said:

umm I had a pretty cool network utilization and throughput graph to show them

it's quite easy to prove that you're being throttled

 

start the conversation like this - I'm paying you X.XX of moneyz, what do you think my UP/DOWN speeds should be?

if they state the number that is in your contract and you're not observing the speed, then tell them the speed you observe.

if they tell you a different number than that's in your contract then correct them.

do capture screenshots of buffering youtube videos, flat network utilizations with periodic dips and international speed test results 

I mean I pay $100 for 750Kb/s I should be able to get that. People say monopolies don't exist 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
19 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

I mean I pay $100 for 750Kb/s I should be able to get that. People say monopolies don't exist 

is that a life time payment?

that's outrageous....

I get 100Mbps for 7€/mo (+taxes and it get to 10€)

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4 hours ago, DXMember said:

umm I had a pretty cool network utilization and throughput graph to show them

it's quite easy to prove that you're being throttled

 

start the conversation like this - I'm paying you X.XX of moneyz, what do you think my UP/DOWN speeds should be?

if they state the number that is in your contract and you're not observing the speed, then tell them the speed you observe.

if they tell you a different number than that's in your contract then correct them.

do capture screenshots of buffering youtube videos, flat network utilizations with periodic dips and international speed test results 

Let me tell you my situation, and see what you think.

 

We pay Century Link around $70 a month for 10 down 1 up, allegedly. On a nightly basis, whatever I am doing, I get disconnected, with alleged "DNS Errors" (according to google chrome).

 

I switched my DNS servers in my network settings to Google DNS, both primary and secondary, for IPv4 and IPv6, I ran traceroute via my command line, to the Google DNS servers. The errors keep coming from servers between me, and the Google DNS servers. I looked up these servers via their IP addresses, and they are owned and administrated by Century Link.

 

Filed 3 FCC complaints now. First time, they called us and somehow our house had gotten switched back to 3 down 1 up, second time they sent a guy out to check our equipment, he told me off the record that the issue is Verizon throttling Century Link traffic across their network to get to the Level 3 backbone in this area. Third time, I get a letter claiming that this area is experiencing "Bandwidth Exhaustion", and that it should be fixed by April or May, Now it is June, and the issue continues. It usually happens later in the day, and doesn't matter if I am playing a game, browsing the web, or streaming a movie. However, certain games will cause it to happen any time of day. Primarily First Person Shooters, or other multiplayer games.

 

Is this throttling, or is it what they claim it is?

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20 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Let me tell you my situation, and see what you think.

 

We pay Century Link around $70 a month for 10 down 1 up, allegedly. On a nightly basis, whatever I am doing, I get disconnected, with alleged "DNS Errors" (according to google chrome).

 

I switched my DNS servers in my network settings to Google DNS, both primary and secondary, for IPv4 and IPv6, I ran traceroute via my command line, to the Google DNS servers. The errors keep coming from servers between me, and the Google DNS servers. I looked up these servers via their IP addresses, and they are owned and administrated by Century Link.

 

Filed 3 FCC complaints now. First time, they called us and somehow our house had gotten switched back to 3 down 1 up, second time they sent a guy out to check our equipment, he told me off the record that the issue is Verizon throttling Century Link traffic across their network to get to the Level 3 backbone in this area. Third time, I get a letter claiming that this area is experiencing "Bandwidth Exhaustion", and that it should be fixed by April or May, Now it is June, and the issue continues. It usually happens later in the day, and doesn't matter if I am playing a game, browsing the web, or streaming a movie. However, certain games will cause it to happen any time of day. Primarily First Person Shooters, or other multiplayer games.

 

Is this throttling, or is it what they claim it is?

I don't think that's throttling. Throttling shouldn't cause your DNS Server to timeout. Or - I should rather say, if done properly. If they're throttling you and it's causing DNS Server issues, then they're doing something wrong.

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1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

I don't think that's throttling. Throttling shouldn't cause your DNS Server to timeout. Or - I should rather say, if done properly. If they're throttling you and it's causing DNS Server issues, then they're doing something wrong.

All I know is it's fucking IRRITATING. Especially when I've just gotten into Diablo 3 (I am behind, I know), which for some reason requires an internet connection to play a private game.

 

Because reasons.

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GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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Posted
5 hours ago, DXMember said:

is that a life time payment?

that's outrageous....

I get 100Mbps for 7€/mo (+taxes and it get to 10€)

nope

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
3 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

nope

in that case you got seriously shafted, brah...

CPU: Intel i7 5820K @ 4.20 GHz | Motherboard: MSI X99S SLI PLUS | RAM: Corsair LPX 16GB DDR4 @ 2666MHz | GPU: Sapphire R9 Fury (x2 CrossFire)
Storage: Samsung 950Pro 512GB // OCZ Vector150 240GB // Seagate 1TB | PSU: Seasonic 1050 Snow Silent | Case: NZXT H440 | Cooling: Nepton 240M
FireStrike // Extreme // Ultra // 8K // 16K

 

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Posted
12 hours ago, DXMember said:

in that case you got seriously shafted, brah...

I know but it is that or no internet 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

I pay $45 a month for 2Mbps down. In South Africa you just get shafted straight.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, The Falcon said:

I pay $45 a month for 2Mbps down. In South Africa you just get shafted straight.

I wonder how SA connects to the major worldwide interconnects? Does it go through continental Africa? Or does it go across the sea to SEA and North America?

 

Either way, that's pretty terrible. Are faster speeds even available?

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9 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I wonder how SA connects to the major worldwide interconnects? Does it go through continental Africa? Or does it go across the sea to SEA and North America?

 

Either way, that's pretty terrible. Are faster speeds even available?

We have a lot actaully. We have a pipeline running undersea from our southern most tip to the UK its run by Orange and Neotel as far as I know this is the main one and when it breaks somewhere the whole country is utterly destroyed internet wise as the others simple dont handle the load. We have a ship and team on stand by around the clock to go fix that cable stationed in Cape Town harbor with on board fibre require equipment etc etc. It still goes down for a while cause ships take long to sail up africa. This is along the west. Then we have one that goes along the east cost to eastern Europe and one that goes to india and I think there it connects to an Australian pipeline. 

Better yet here is a picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Cable_map18.svg

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29 minutes ago, The Falcon said:

We have a lot actaully. We have a pipeline running undersea from our southern most tip to the UK its run by Orange and Neotel as far as I know this is the main one and when it breaks somewhere the whole country is utterly destroyed internet wise as the others simple dont handle the load. We have a ship and team on stand by around the clock to go fix that cable stationed in Cape Town harbor with on board fibre require equipment etc etc. It still goes down for a while cause ships take long to sail up africa. This is along the west. Then we have one that goes along the east cost to eastern Europe and one that goes to india and I think there it connects to an Australian pipeline. 

Better yet here is a picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Cable_map18.svg

Interesting - as I thought, pretty much all of the backbone is undersea cable.

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